Why don't American companies build lights we want to buy?

[uknewbie]

Why doesn't Maglite ditch the D cell and produce good multi cell AA lights? Good question. Maybe because they can still sell their old stuff and doing so is cheaper.

Also, in the USA people would want to run AA lights on the cheapest (oh, and Chinese) AA cells they could find, and then the output and/or run time would be terrible.

As for Surefire, well they can just produce anything they like, say it is "the world's finest illumination tool" and people, especially in the USA, will flock to spend $800 on it.

 

[carrot]

I believe he's referring to large companies and mass production. These companies fall into enthusiast builders or small-run production. Their manufacturing capabilities are limited.

What does it matter to us if their manufacturing capabilities are limited? They still can produce what we want, at reasonable prices we're willing to pay, and offer as good or better customer service.

 

[AutoTech]

I was thinking about this the other day, more regarding maglite and why they don't just start producing a larger range of cree lights. Everyone that collects cree lights and doesn't have a maglite because they think they're rubbish would suddenly have to get one. I know they do a small cree light but it's a pretty poor performer from what I've seen, probably because they don't want to make a small light that totally negates their entire collection of incandescent lights.

Seems strange to me really, especially after joining here and seeing how many people just buy cree lights for nothing more than collections (myself included.. Up to 10 now, 6 of those bought in the last week after since here)

 

[speedsix]

My point is, Maglight was huge 15-20 years ago. They must have have had a large % of the market share in the late 1980s to early 1990s. Everyone I knew carried one or had one or two of them. I only know a couple of people that use them now. Same is true for Surfire. 5-10 years ago most people I knew had moved to something from Surfire like the 6P (which was around $60 BTW) and they were happy because it was the best at the time. Now you can buy a $12.00 Rominsen that runs on 1AA that is brighter than any ML and brighter than the common Surefire lights like the G2 or 6P plus it never needs a new bulb because it is led and batteries last longer and are cheaper.

Is a $12.00 Rominsen as good as an old ML or SF? No, it is better. My Maglights and Surefires sways burned out bulbs and left me with no light. My Surefires with the silly twist cap were prone to being bumped on in my bag which burned out the batteries.

I remember getting a Surefire G2 and being amazed at how much smaller, brighter and better it was than my old 3 C cell Maglight. When I got the Rominsen ( my first decent LED light that was not cheap junk) I had the same feeling toward the Surefire. It was smaller, brighter and worked better. I just kind of wish that some American company would step up and be the next Surefire rather than see millions of Chinese lights being sold.

CR123s are a deal breaker for most people because it is a specialty battery. For most people buying a light that takes a different battery than everything else they have doesn't make sense. 99% of the public just want a light to use, they are avid light hobbiests. The fact that Maglight and Surefire dont seem to grasp this doesn't bode well for them. They will be sidelined in a few years and some other company will take a huge part of their market share just because they are slow to advance or change.

 

[LEDninja]

As far as I know the two big US flashlight makers are Maglight and Surefire.

There are other companies like Streamlight, UK, pelican.

ML hasn't produced a light people want for years

The light people want is the plastic 2D incan.
The 2nd most popular light is the 6V lantern.
Maglight is #3. They outsell Fenix thousands to one. Forget about the tiny shops like 4sevens, Nitecore, Olight, etc, etc, etc.
Only flashaholics think Maglight is out of date.

Specifically I wonder why they don't produce 1AA lights with pocket clips for EDC. I know SF would sell a huge number of them just based on their rep and that they are USA made. ML could regain some of the market share that they lost in recent years if they would step into the modern day and quit holding on to the 1980s. Nobody wants to lug around a 4 D cell monster anymore.

LEDs need 3.4-3.6V to operate properly.
1AA 1.2-1.5V. You need to pay for a strong boost circuit to get light out of 1AA.
ML has gone 3AAA for their small lights. 3.6-4.5V do not need a boost circuit.
The MagLED 2D out throws the MagLED 3D. No need to carry around a 4D Mag anymore.

I sent an email to both of these companies letting them know that I would prefer to buy American and if they offered a 1AA light with pocket clip it would probably sell like hotcakes. My guess is if SF made such a light, it would outsell all there other lights combined and would be a real cash cow if they kept the price below $60 or so.

Surefire have been experimenting with 1AA in the ICON range.
ML makes millions of every model. Finding millions of customers willing to pay $60 is hard. Until ML figures how to make a 1AA in the $25 range you probably won't see any. Remember US wages are much higher than in China. A $60 Quark AA would cost $120+ if built in the USA.

and Surefire is stuck with CR123 batteries even though the rest of the world is moving toward AAs and AAAs. ...
...I only have one SF light left in my collection and that is my weapon light. I got rid of all the others because of the CR123 batteries. I was tired of running out of them and having to order them or try to find a store that sells them. Not every gas station stocks them like AAs.

Surefire started out making laser sights for SWAT. At the request of LAPD SWAT they developed a light that took the recoil of a shotgun for the 1980 Olympics. (There were no power LEDs until this century.) Then they worked on the pistol lights. It takes 4AA to equal 2CR123A in voltage. Try and hang a 4AA torch under your pistol. To make it simple for SWAT and especially the special forces Surefire standardized on CR123A. As Surefire is now starting to cater to outdoors people they are changing and introduced 2AA lights. As they have designed 1AA ICON lights 1AA will follow. As their main customer is still the military Surefire tends to follow military development procedures.
(I remember a case where a concept of a tank came up. 10 years later the design was complete. 20 years later they built a prototype. 30 years later production started rolling. Unless there is a war going on and something needed to be built right away military development takes their sweet assed time.)
Patience grasshopper!

BTW most Chinese companies are not pushing 1AA torches. They are going 18650.

 

[gcbryan]

My take on this would be why worry that your flashlight isn't made in the US when just about everything else you own and buy isn't made in the US either? When they figure out how to profitably make TV set in the US again then maybe they'll tackle the flashlight issue.

Regarding your specific question. Maglite isn't really in the business of making cutting edge lights for hobbyists. Target isn't in the business of supplying cutting edge clothes for the fashion conscious. They're doing well however.

 

[speedsix]

Maglight may out sell Fenix and others but there are dozens of Fenix type companies and added together they are stealing market share. That market share should and could belong to an American company or at least some of it could. Why leave so much money on the table?

Maybe I am wrong but I really think if ML and SF would make a few AA and AAA lights in one and two cell format, they would really be rewarded for their effort.

I don't know too many people who would be willing to spend $60 for a AAA "key chain" light but a decent AA that performed like the better led lights now made would surely open some eyes in the public. My brother didn't even know lights like my Rominsen existed and was blown away. There are even better lights out there with more power. My Zebralighit H51 was amazing for the size. It was only $60 and I would be willing to pay much more for if it had the quality of a Surefire and I could count on it when the chips were down.

 

[Tempest UK]

The number of CPFers buying their products would suggest that SureFire does make light "we" want to buy...

 

[uknewbie]

Maybe I am wrong but I really think if ML and SF would make a few AA and AAA lights in one and two cell format, they would really be rewarded for their effort.

How so? People would just but the new lights they then made instead of the current ones, and half decent lights like you describe would have less profit margin than the things they sell just now. Only people that would be happier would be the consumers, not anyone in the company.

If I could run a company producing cheap stuff without really needing to upgrade and people still bought it, and make a lot of money, why would I change this?

 

[Monocrom]

I'm happy with the nearly two dozen SureFire lights I own.

I plan to pick up both an N-cell, and a AAA Peak in the near future. Very happy with my Peak Eiger penlight.

I no longer buy M@glites, but only because I don't want to support a company run by such a ridiculously sue-happy individual who, apparently, genuinely believes that he invented every flashlight innovation that exists in the world. I do believe in supporting American business, but not to the extent of supporting one blindly by looking the other way; just because it's based in America.

I used to do that. My first car was a used Ford Escort. No anti-lock brakes. Had I bought a cheaper Hyundai Elantra with standard anti-lock brakes, I'd still be driving it. The brakes on my Ford Escort locked up and it was totaled when a guy in a mini-van side-swiped me into the stone wall of an exit ramp.

Look for what you need from American companies. If they don't make it or have it, nothing wrong with looking elsewhere.

 

[rmteo]

....Maybe I am wrong but I really think if ML and SF would make a few AA and AAA lights in one and two cell format, they would really be rewarded for their effort.

Again, they absolutely do. And have been doing so for many, many years. Have you seen these? Walk into any of the many thousands of Wal-Mart, Target, Sears, K-Mart, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. stores and you will find them.

 

[JacobJones]

It doesn't bother me that American companies don't make lights I want to buy because Asian manufacturers cater to my every need, and at reasonable prices. I used to be one of the people who thought made in china meant crap untill I got a fenix ld20 and realised I shouldnt listen to the lies of biased nationalists. Now I always try to buy chinese when I can, I like to think my money is helping a poor Chinese man feed his wife and children, not helping somebody in the western world buy that 42 inch tv

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Let's keep on topic here. The thread title is, Why don't American companies build lights we want to buy? No more comments about Chinese vs US lights. We have had several threads re that topic and many went very sour.

Bill

 

[JacobJones]

You are absolutely right, let's not get this thread closed.

I really don't know why American companies insist on making lights with outdated emitters and lithium batteries. I think that if maglite made some small Cree lights they may be able to regain the some of the market and reputation that they have lost over the years, I've been waiting for a Cree solitaire for several years now and i'm sure many others have too.

 

[brembo]

You are absolutely right, let's not get this thread closed.

I really don't know why American companies insist on making lights with outdated emitters and lithium batteries..

What's wrong with lithium cells? They have some very compelling advantages over alkaline, NiCad and NiMH. Not saying they are the best all the time, tho in some applications lithium cells are superior.

 

[CamoNinja]

Your money isn't going to the poor. It goes to the rich leaders.

It doesn't bother me that American companies don't make lights I want to buy because Asian manufacturers cater to my every need, and at reasonable prices. I used to be one of the people who thought made in china meant crap untill I got a fenix ld20 and realised I shouldnt listen to the lies of biased nationalists. Now I always try to buy chinese when I can, I like to think my money is helping a poor Chinese man feed his wife and children, not helping somebody in the western world buy that 42 inch tv

 

[PayBack]

lol it cracks me up the number of times I see people saying "If I use anything but an american light I'll die!!! My life depends on a flashlight!" Sure there are cops etc who use lights in life or death situations, but you're more likely to be struck by lightning than have your light fail just at the wrong time unless you go for a D grade knock off.

FYI I'd never touch an American light. I had one fail on me once so I'll never touch any american brand again ever (hmmm that sounds kind of silly doesn't it... regardless of what country the light came from). Almost makes me sound biggoted.

And yes AA's leak... but CR123's explode!! Neither has happened to me. Well I had an AA leak in a remote I'd not used for 8 years but hey, who's fault is that.

What's truely amazing is the thread hasn't been locked yet. *hides*

 

[uknewbie]

lol it cracks me up the number of times I see people saying "If I use anything but an american light I'll die!!! My life depends on a flashlight!" Sure there are cops etc who use lights in life or death situations, but you're more likely to be struck by lightning than have your light fail just at the wrong time unless you go for a D grade knock off.

FYI I'd never touch an American light. I had one fail on me once so I'll never touch any american brand again ever (hmmm that sounds kind of silly doesn't it... regardless of what country the light came from).

What's truely amazing is the thread hasn't been locked yet. *hides*

Well said. Btw, I am a cop, and use a Jetbeam light at work, without fail.

 

[ganymede]

Why don't American companies build lights we want to buy? Because "we" only represent a very small portion of their entire business.

 

[JacobJones]

What's wrong with lithium cells? They have some very compelling advantages over alkaline, NiCad and NiMH. Not saying they are the best all the time, tho in some applications lithium cells are superior.

There's nothing wrong with lithium cells. Just thinking that surefire could do a range of AA or AAA lights for a more general market, people who want tough high quality American lights without worrying about losing a few fingers or their house and batteries that are cheap and easy to find.