Why I hate the modern LED torch

alibaba

Enlightened
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Jun 6, 2008
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the final frontier
Not really, in fact I love my torches to the extent that my GF ACTUALLY gets annoyed sometimes. I am, however, as a newb becoming annoyed myself quite often as I read through the available threads on CPF's. I think that many members here need regular reality checks. I see in almost every thread I read comments about horrible beams and how this light sucks because it "only" has 120 lumens and all I can say is SNAP OUT OF IT! I understand the quest for the perfect torch but either it doesn't exist or you already have it and are too busy finding faults with it to realize how good it is.

A little history: My first good light (not counting mags) was a SF 6P well over a decade ago. My first LED light was an original yellow Photon with the snap-apart case. The SF was, obviously, a religious experience. Between the output, the beam quality and the size I was truly in awe. Keep in mind, now, that mags were the best torch I'd seen until then. After owning it for awhile I realized that I hardly used it! It was not only ridiculously expensive (at the time) to operate with it's 1 hour runtime but it was way too bright for most of my uses. Then I heard about these LED thingies that were supposed to be really efficient! I went through the old-school progression from single 5mm led's to multi-5mm clusters and was always left wanting more. They had great battery life and a nice floody beam but WHERE WAS THE THROW!? The first high-power LED torch I saw was the custom Lambda Illuminator that squeezed a Luxeon Star w/optic emitter into a Brinkmann 2-AA torch. I borrowed one and was FLOORED! Here was an LED that nearly competed with my SF in brightness (not really but it was the brightest LED I'd ever seen) and beat it in runtime using AA batteries. Since then I'v owned many LED torches with my latest being the SF E1B and NC D10. I've read many posts on both of these lights and many of these were quite negative. I'll be the first to admit that every so often one of us gets a dud but the posts I've been seeing are apparently about normal specimens. I've read several about the "low" output of both of these and especially about the horrible "Cree ring circus" beams. Maybe I have really good specimens of both lighs but I think that the truth is some of us are getting spoiled (us older folks) and some of us were spoiled from the beginning because you don't know/haven't experienced LED torch history. I mean, my new D10 is competitive in both output and runtime with my original 6P and yet is flexible enough to squeeze several days runtime out of a single AA battery. Either way, most modern good quality LED torches will impress the hell out of anyone who still uses a mag and they will be especially stunned by the huge output and really smooth beams. I get the impression that many of the folks on these forums don't actually use the vast majority of their lights and instead play with them. When you stop doing that and use them to light up things that you need to see you'll realize just how good we have it and how extraordinary the modern LED torch really is!
 
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Some good points. Compared to what we used to put up, not long ago at all, I'm sometimes surprised by people who are unhappy with "cree rings" and other minor imperfections. Hey, I see them too when I'm just playing with lights in the living room, but in use I really can't find anything to complain about. Even the very first gen Cree's are great in my book. The one in my Orb Ns produces a beam that's nearly on par with Q5's in terms of appearance.
 
+1
I really don't understand that "hunt for the perfect beam" -thing. I have 3 incan mags: 4D, Mini and Solitaire and they all have beams that are more or less crap. But almost all leds that I have ever owned had at least good beam compared to mag incans.
Sure, if the beam truly is ugly e.g. there are several brighter rims and between are noticeably darker rims, there may be some actual error in design. But for example D10 has very good and useable beam in real world use, although some consider it average or even poor.:shakehead

IMO (and don't mean to offend anybody), if you want perfect beam, buy movie projector. If you want good lighting equipment for real world use, buy almost any decently priced quality led flashlight.
 
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I get the impression that many of the folks on these forums don't actually use the vast majority of their lights and instead play with them. When you stop doing that and use them to light up things that you need to see you'll realize just how good we have it and how extraordinary the modern LED torch really is!



YES!!!

I agree so much with this statement. I really wonder how many people get off their butts and actually go out and do something with their lights. Sure I'd like to keep my lights looking nice, but they are tools and tools will get used (scratched) When you actually use your lights outside or at work all those little imperfections in a beams quality on "White Walls" are not even noticed. I've always liked flashlights and am also impressed with how far and fast LED technology has progressed.
I don't really have much to complain about:D
 
I think you can only really appreciate the wonder of modern LEDs if you've spent years dealing with the shortcomings of incandescents. Whenever I tried to light my bike I faced the same problems again and again. Short lifetime, crappy yellow tint which gets orange as the batteries drain, multiple failures due to potholes, etc. Ditto for my experiences lighting model trains where a burnt out bulb necessitated disassembling a model. Eventually of course I gave up the thought of having lights on either my bike or my trains. It just wasn't worth the hassle.

Around 2000 or so I played with my first white LED. Prior to that I had experimented with red, green, and amber high-brightness LEDs. They were useful for some things but of course lacking for situations where one wanted some approximation of white. Anyway, I thought how cool it was. The only thing which stopped me from getting a lot more was the high price ($3), and the fact that I knew like all things electronic that they would be on a steep improvement curve. I figured I'll just wait it out a few more years. By 2004 or so cheap white LEDs brighter than my original few were readily available on eBay. I also started playing with Luxeons. I knew a few years ago the future of all lighting would be solid state but I just didn't think it would happen so fast. To make a long story short today's LEDs have me wanting to light up a lot more than my bike and my model trains. You have to love a light source which never burns out but only grows dimmer over thousands of hours. Besides that, LEDs are cheaper by far than the grain-of-wheat lamps I used to use for my trains. If I was lucky I could get them for about $0.50 each. Yes, half a buck for a miserable, dim, orange thing which would quit if you blew on it. Now I can get all the true white LEDs I want for $0.10. Even the really bright ones only cost $0.30. They'll last way longer than the tiny incandescents they'll replace, and use a fraction of the power. Best of all, I can get them in any color of the rainbow. And the high-power LEDs are nothing less than revolutionary.

Couple today's LEDs with today's much better rechargeables and you easily have ten times the run time for a given amount of light. But only someone who has lived through the dark days of lighting can really appreciate that.
 
Snap out of it??

I prefer to stay in my delusional state of searching for the perfect light. I actually found it.... I'm currently bargaining with God for a trade, so I can get my hands on HIS flashlight.

If I toss in a Leef 2x18650 body, the Sun will soon be mine! :twothumbs

Then I'll outshine all of you who decided to listen to the topic-starter's advice.

Screw reality. That's freaking boring.
 
Snap out of it??
I'm currently bargaining with God for a trade, so I can get my hands on HIS flashlight.

If I toss in a Leef 2x18650 body, the Sun will soon be mine! :twothumbs

Then I'll outshine all of you who decided to listen to the topic-starter's advice.

so youre the other guy He keeps saying is offering Him better stuff then i am....:poof:

Crenshaw
 
Not really, in fact I love my torches to the extent that my GF ACTUALLY gets annoyed sometimes. I am, however, as a newb becoming annoyed myself quite often as I read through the available threads on CPF's. I think that many members here need regular reality checks. I see in almost every thread I read comments about horrible beams and how this light sucks because it "only" has 120 lumens and all I can say is SNAP OUT OF IT! I understand the quest for the perfect torch but either it doesn't exist or you already have it and are too busy finding faults with it to realize how good it is.

A little history: My first good light (not counting mags) was a SF 6P well over a decade ago. My first LED light was an original yellow Photon with the snap-apart case. The SF was, obviously, a religious experience. Between the output, the beam quality and the size I was truly in awe. Keep in mind, now, that mags were the best torch I'd seen until then. After owning it for awhile I realized that I hardly used it! It was not only ridiculously expensive (at the time) to operate with it's 1 hour runtime but it was way too bright for most of my uses. Then I heard about these LED thingies that were supposed to be really efficient! I went through the old-school progression from single 5mm led's to multi-5mm clusters and was always left wanting more. They had great battery life and a nice floody beam but WHERE WAS THE THROW!? The first high-power LED torch I saw was the custom Lambda Illuminator that squeezed a Luxeon Star w/optic emitter into a Brinkmann 2-AA torch. I borrowed one and was FLOORED! Here was an LED that nearly competed with my SF in brightness (not really but it was the brightest LED I'd ever seen) and beat it in runtime using AA batteries. Since then I'v owned many LED torches with my latest being the SF E1B and NC D10. I've read many posts on both of these lights and many of these were quite negative. I'll be the first to admit that every so often one of us gets a dud but the posts I've been seeing are apparently about normal specimens. I've read several about the "low" output of both of these and especially about the horrible "Cree ring circus" beams. Maybe I have really good specimens of both lighs but I think that the truth is some of us are getting spoiled (us older folks) and some of us were spoiled from the beginning because you don't know/haven't experienced LED torch history. I mean, my new D10 is competitive in both output and runtime with my original 6P and yet is flexible enough to squeeze several days runtime out of a single AA battery. Either way, most modern good quality LED torches will impress the hell out of anyone who still uses a mag and they will be especially stunned by the huge output and really smooth beams. I get the impression that many of the folks on these forums don't actually use the vast majority of their lights and instead play with them. When you stop doing that and use them to light up things that you need to see you'll realize just how good we have it and how extraordinary the modern LED torch really is!

Preach it! I'm SO with ya, it's not even funny!

So many of these cats around here have nothing good to say about anything, and they're just waiting to be able to trash their current super-lights the very moment something better comes out!

They're like these kids who soup-up their cars--nothing's ever fast enough, and they're left wanting more when the day ends! I've been down that road too! I started with Mags, then Mag-LEDs, and then went to Surefire, Streamlight, and on and on. Finally, I came back full-circle to the 4-D (and to an extent, the C) Mag LED. It's the best compromise between a reliable, tough, decently bright, and able-to-be-used-as-a-weapon light.

Plus, it's not too bright to use in the house when the power goes out and can even be used as a dog-walking light, with super throw and simplicity that never lets you down.

Being content with something is much better than spending tons of money on new stuff, picking it apart, and then repeating the process until you're either out of money or cussing up a storm because nothing's ever good enough for you!

No light is going to be perfect. I have my pet-peeves just like anyone else as to what exactly I want (LED, baton-able, good throw, good battery life, and no major beam artifacts), and then I'm happy. I switch between 3 and 4 cell Mags of both C and D with the LED adapter. Hey, I'm happy! But I do get tired of all the negative guff that goes around here.

*** Oh, and another thing; who in their right mind as a security or police officer would risk taking something as expensive as an SF M6 out on the job??? I can lose a $38 Mag, but come on! This insane brightness quest is just stupid!

*** And who wants a light with more nic-nacs (pepper spray holders, alternate "power-saver" lights, flash-button features, etc). It's just more stuff that can break!
 
Snap out of it??

.... I'm currently bargaining with God for a trade, so I can get my hands on HIS flashlight.

If I toss in a Leef 2x18650 body, the Sun will soon be mine! :twothumbs

Don't know how to say this so I'll just spit it out: Did you know that sun has darker spots on it occasionally? If you use very, VERY underexposured camera settings you might even see it!:crackup:
 
I understand the quest for the perfect torch but either it doesn't exist or you already have it and are too busy finding faults with it to realize how good it is.

Do you realize saying that here is like going to a car forum and telling them they're all annoying for trying to make a faster or more fuel efficient car and then proceeding to preach the benefits of a Ford Model A?
:ironic:
When spending time on function it never hurts to add in a bit of form. Whitewall beamshot comparisons aren't important to the function of a light for most people and most situations, but there's nothing wrong with striving for perfection. Mediocrity is a terrible thing and I'll have none of it.

You do make good points.
LEDs have come a long way.
Yes, "we" are spoiled. But that is what you get from an enthusiast community.
Negative posts do come out. (some of us just project our frustrations onto other people's flashlights)
:D
But blanket statements about people not "using" lights doesn't add much to the post. I don't use many of my lights. They simply have been surpassed in function over the years so they're either modded or mothballed.
I don't get to use my good lights as often as I'd like, and I'm sure many here would say the same thing. I can't spend all my time doing SAR, backpacking, biking, caving, or other great recreational activities that would require a light. :mecry: (So instead I burn hours posting here :naughty:)
 
I get the impression that many of the folks on these forums don't actually use the vast majority of their lights and instead play with them.
To play with lights you must use them. Thus I see no problem in playing with lights :) .
 
Are you 100% sure you're not making a deal with the other guy? :devil:

Nope! I'm sure. I already sold my soul for a Ham sandwich. :p

Although the Devil does seem to be in this topic as it's horribly degrading into a couple of folks bashing the CPF community.

And to the other guy, I work in security and own an M6. I'll carry it to work as soon as I can find a good holster for it. Why?.... Because I won't have to worry about losing it if I have a holster for it. As for dropping the light; well, that's what lanyards are for.
 
First thing you have to realize is that this is an Enthusiast forum foremost. There are going to be varying degrees of fanaticism from member to member. Some will critique white wall beams and Cree-rings... while others will critique the HAIII finish color match between the tailcap and body. Thats just the way enthusiast forums are. The watch forums fanatics will argue about country of origin and time-accuracy down to the +/- second. The audio forum fanatics will argue about what each member hears and the sounds they perceive.

What you have to remember is to never loose sight of your own personal preferences and your own value scale. What performance aspects are you willing to pay for and how much are you willing to pay for them. Cree rings don't really annoy me that much, so long as they are not so excessive. I don't think I would pay much more for a cree light that advertised a ring-less beam, if thats all it had to offer. There are other more important aspects to nit-pick... IMHO.
 
Thanks for the replies. To those who took offense to what I said because they are collectors of torches more than users I apologize. I am passionate about torches too but it's because I do alot of activities (mostly camping/hiking but also work) that require a torch as a tool. If I were to just collect them in a case I'd be picky also. Anyhoo, it is sometimes a good thing just to step back for a moment and look at the big picture.........................lit by a torch!:D
 
I used to collect too, but decided that lights are too expensive just to collect. So I bit the bullet and got rid of the shelf queens and only have lights I actually use now. :D
 
First thing you have to realize is that this is an Enthusiast forum foremost. There are going to be varying degrees of fanaticism from member to member. Some will critique white wall beams and Cree-rings... while others will critique the HAIII finish color match between the tailcap and body. Thats just the way enthusiast forums are. The watch forums fanatics will argue about country of origin and time-accuracy down to the +/- second. The audio forum fanatics will argue about what each member hears and the sounds they perceive.

What you have to remember is to never loose sight of your own personal preferences and your own value scale. What performance aspects are you willing to pay for and how much are you willing to pay for them. Cree rings don't really annoy me that much, so long as they are not so excessive. I don't think I would pay much more for a cree light that advertised a ring-less beam, if thats all it had to offer. There are other more important aspects to nit-pick... IMHO.

I agree. To each his own I always say. Let's face it, occupations not withstanding, one can get by just fine on one light. Part of the fun for many is the quest. Whether you are a user or a shelf queen collector as long as you are enjoying yourelf I say keep it up.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alibaba
I understand the quest for the perfect torch but either it doesn't exist or you already have it and are too busy finding faults with it to realize how good it is.


Do you realize saying that here is like going to a car forum and telling them they're all annoying for trying to make a faster or more fuel efficient car and then proceeding to preach the benefits of a Ford Model A?
:ironic:

don't use many of my lights. They simply have been surpassed in function over the years so they're either modded or mothballed.



I hear ya Phantom, but I don't think the OP was referring to the flashlight equivalent of the Model A or, "surpassed" old model lights. He can correct me If I'm wrong though...

He specifically made mention of the E1B and D10 which many people are praising for their excellence as new generation lights. I happen to agree that these examples are some of the 'greats' of modern LED light improvements. Nevertheless some are finding fault with "cree rings" and other very minor issues. I believe these are the complaints that alibaba is referring to.

To use the car forum analogy, it would be like a discussion of the latest BMW Z4 M Roadster, which is faster, more fuel efficient and refined beyond what has previously been available and then proceeding to complain about the cam noise caused by the variable VANOS. To me, that just impractical and I often see that same impracticality applied to some of the finest new lights that we've ever gotten our hands on.
 
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