Why is the Pelican M6 so unpopular and not favored by many?

yazkaz

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No trolling/flaming intended but I've wanted to ask this quite some time ago. And yes this is also to echo this thread
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?182392-Why-is-the-SureFire-6P-so-good

So anyone still sticking to this 6P competitor at work? Any positive/negative, modding etc experiences to share?

For me I've been reminded of the M6's modding potential sometime back in 2017. Did end up getting a few dedicated D26 LF dropins (Peli-exclusive of course) and since then there's no turning back. Now I have a few M6s and M3s, all modded wth the LF dropin, plus UCL lenses and custom Kroll switch assys.

Sure no fancy head, bezel ring etc. upgrades, but overall still feels like a tank that can take some beating at work.

Anyway take on that? Feedback appreciated......
 

Illumination

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Love the Pelican M6 I bought over a decade ago. It's the HAIII limited edition version. Nice feel and amazing throw. But sadly the emitter is now out of date, mode powerful and efficient emitters now available.

I didn't know the emitter could easily be swapped... something for me to think about
 

yazkaz

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Love the Pelican M6 I bought over a decade ago. It's the HAIII limited edition version. Nice feel and amazing throw. But sadly the emitter is now out of date, mode powerful and efficient emitters now available.
I didn't know the emitter could easily be swapped... something for me to think about
Seems like your M6 could be the Model 2390 and its LED emitter may be a Cree XRE (possibly even R2 bin). The module also features a deep reflector (with narrower parabola) which delivers quite some throw, so I've been told. The driver should run at around 1A (perhaps a bit less). If you could remove the glue near the bottom of the reflector you might want to consider Cree XPG2/3 or Nichia 319a (both on MCPCB of course). I'm however not sure if the driver could be easily accessed and substituted though...

Meanwhile, HAIII does not really point to any limited edition. AFAIK the Model 2320 (incan) is certainly in HAII black only while the 2390 LED only exists in HAIII (hard black or OD). I'm not sure what finishing is on the Model 2330 (1W LED) but I believe it's most likely HAII black.
OTOH the three-cell M3 (3370 incan) is in HAIII only (again hard black or OD).

If you'd like a one-stop upgrade to make your M6 conform to modern LED output specs then consider getting the LF module. The latest iteration now features 2A driver (previously 1.5A) and LF is also transitioning from Cree XPL/2 to Nichia 319a on these modules, citing better performance and color tint on the latter.
 

bykfixer

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When I received my first 2320 I tried to place a Malkoff in it. Eh, it didn't fit.

Of course I sought after the LED version (2330 and 2390) and the ones available were way beyond my price point. Then while on a Pentagon quest I found a pair of used 2390's at a great price. I really liked the 2390 from the day they arrived.

Meanwhile I read a bunch of old CPF threads about the 2320 and it seemed to be received with mixed reviews back then. Compared to a 6P it had a few qualms, but it costed a lot less so some were ok with it due to that. Now that was back when LED tech was still pretty new.

Later threads enquired about the broken clicky. It seemed as though the Sandwich Shoppe and Flashlightlens had sleeve to fit the mighty Kroll clicky back then. They were intended to make the twisty version into a clicky.

I also learned that Pelican and Pentagon lights shared some parts. The bulb module and tailcap threads for example. And that same clicky that tended to fail in time.

One day I disassembled a 2320 for whatever reason and upon reassembly noted that the stock bulb module in the head stopped it from threading was not where it could actually stop threading. So I put in a P60 and screwed it past the stock point and it lit. So did an M61.

My favorite 2320 has a Malkoff tailcap and a Sportac type module in it.
 
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ampdude

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Part of it was the clicky problems and the other part was a lot of "kabooms" reported with the light in different threads at the time. People would create a thread reporting a kaboom and the first question asked was typically "was it a Pelican M6?" Maybe a coincidence that this happened a lot, maybe not. I'm not so sure it was the light's fault as it was that the people who tended to buy the cheaper light also tended to buy the not so good cheaper lithium batteries.
 

yazkaz

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When I received my first 2320 I tried to place a Malkoff in it. Eh, it didn't fit.

Of course I sought after the LED version (2330 and 2390) and the ones available were way beyond my price point. Then while on a Pentagon quest I found a pair of used 2390's at a great price. I really liked the 2390 from the day they arrived.

Meanwhile I read a bunch of old CPF threads about the 2320 and it seemed to be received with mixed reviews back then. Compared to a 6P it had a few qualms, but it costed a lot less so some were ok with it due to that. Now that was back when LED tech was still pretty new.

Later threads enquired about the broken clicky. It seemed as though the Sandwich Shoppe and Flashlightlens had sleeve to fit the mighty Kroll clicky back then. They were intended to make the twisty version into a clicky.

I also learned that Pelican and Pentagon lights shared some parts. The bulb module and tailcap threads for example. And that same clicky that tended to fail in time.

One day I disassembled a 2320 for whatever reason and upon reassembly noted that the stock bulb module in the head stopped it from threading was not where it could actually stop threading. So I put in a P60 and screwed it past the stock point and it lit. So did an M61.

My favorite 2320 has a Malkoff tailcap and a Sportac type module in it.
Interesting..even a few other things you haven't mentioned before in our previous discussions...

Not all surprised the P60/61 does work on the 2320, but what about lens choices? AFAIK the most you could get is a UCL but not a Boro glass (I also don't know if FFL has a size for that).

Meanwhile the broken clicky is not a problem. There isn't much alternative anyway apart from the Kroll solution. Anyone interested should consider checking out my custom brass sleeves -- I simply took the SS sleeve idea to another level.

2390... will get my hands on my second unit soon. Great deal as well -- less than $23 shipped!!
The first one was given to me by some OEM mfyer which was involved in prior Peli light projects. And yes it really is a tank, also thanks to its excellent HAIII ano. Now that it's all modified and prepped up (to my specs) it could easily be my next EDC......
 

yazkaz

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Part of it was the clicky problems and the other part was a lot of "kabooms" reported with the light in different threads at the time. People would create a thread reporting a kaboom and the first question asked was typically "was it a Pelican M6?" Maybe a coincidence that this happened a lot, maybe not. I'm not so sure it was the light's fault as it was that the people who tended to buy the cheaper light also tended to buy the not so good cheaper lithium batteries.
Here are some problems I've found with the M6 system based on experience:

1. Different head thread specs: as bykfixer has mentioned before, there exists the pre- and post-2014 versions with slightly different internal designs. The thread specs is one (excl. tail threads). The tailcap clicky is another. Different thread specs simply points to system modularity problem;

2. Clicky switch: many like the earlier-spec silent clicky mecha. Myself included too (upon getting my first NOS 2320 back in 2017), until after I was advised that clicky could not take high currents due to the leaf spring design within the clicky mecha. But the post-2014 clicky has its problems as well: the clicky plunger housing could break off from its base PCB very easily after long term use. In other words, the clicky mecha could come off inside the tailcap housing during usage, disabling the light. That's why the Kroll clicky solution is still vital to the M6's survival, also given its easy user serviceability;

3. Tailcap compatibility: not long ago I had an eB customer purchase one of the stock M6 replacement tailcaps I've listed. The tailcap was tested and verified working prior to shipping, but when the customer received it he couldn't manage to latch the switch on with his M6 LED (earlier version with Lux3 LED). So I asked him to send me back the switch and his M6 light, only to discover the tailcap in question works on every one of my M6/M3 tester bodies, except his. Then I experienced the clicky switch problem mentioned in (2) -- clicky mecha came apart inside the housing.

In the end I proposed two solutions for this customer. First, I've replaced the stock tailcap switch (on his M6 LED) with one of my own custom Kroll assys, which solves the problem instantly. Second, for the purchased replacement tailcap, I replaced the stock clicky with another alternative: the LF Seraph clicky mecha (good for up to 2A). This eB sale was a complete loss for me but nevertheless I've managed to help out a customer in need and scrape another positive feedback......

4. Occasional contact problem: On my modded M6es I have the LF D26 modules (Peli-spec) installed. On some of the units, there's a rare 5-10% occasion that light won't switch on. Apparently there's some minor contact problem originated from somewhere. The solution is to tap the head a few times until the light is back on, after which the problem won't recur for a very long time.
 

bykfixer

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Wack-a-palm lives on....

I wonder if the name was a bad idea. The M6? Wasn't there already a super-duper bright flashlight called the M6 by SureFire back then?


My M6 herd with a Pentagon eX2 in the mix:
IMG-20190518-090650.jpg

Top to bottom;
- Pentagon eX2 with twisty using a Malkoff M60T
- Pelican 2320 with Malkoff clicky and Sportac module with a very bright Cree XPL
- Pelican 2390 stock with Elzetta lanyard ring
- Pelican 2320 silver, stock with a Pentagon clicky switch inside that replaced the broken Pelican switch.

IMG-20190518-090736.jpg

Each module has worked in each light when swapped around.

IMG-20190518-090808.jpg

My favorite 2320.

Not the lego king but if one has a busted 2320 laying around there are alternatives including Mr Kaz's switch replacement setup that works in each of the tailcap versions.

New switch boot? Good luck finding one of those.
 

yazkaz

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Not the lego king but if one has a busted 2320 laying around there are alternatives including Mr Kaz's switch replacement setup that works in each of the tailcap versions.
New switch boot? Good luck finding one of those.
I only have a limited number of the sleeves made. But once sold out I don't know if I could have more made due to limited resources...

Switch boot... I've asked another important CPF "player" for help with the clone, but so far no updates yet.
If however things don't go thru at his/her side then I'll have to deal with the matter myself, and that would start with a hefty $400 premium just for the mold......
BTW, what boot color would you prefer? Black, GID green, fire orange,......??
 

yazkaz

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New switch boot? Good luck finding one of those.
Update: these boot clones are to be materialized very soon, perhaps in a month.
Made by the best silicone material available...
Available colors: black, GID green, light orange
Will be sold individually or in various bundles

More info later......
Any questions please send PM or reply thread for follow up
 

Monocrom

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Pelican's offering had zero advantages over SureFire's 6P. Well, other than price.

If price was your biggest concern. There you go. Otherwise, you were getting an inferior light, by comparison.
 

bykfixer

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At the time the 2320 was a good value. The 6P was a better value, yet for the low paid first responders the Pelican was a lot better option when faced to choose between a minimag or a 6P.

A decade later, why it wasn't a viable option for the modding crowd is easy to understand. Yet for those with a Peli stashed in a drawer somewhere it can become modernized without a lot of work.
 

bykfixer

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Going back in time, when the typical 6P sold for $80+ before Amazon and eBay sellers listed them for around $60 or even less. To a person making oh, about $25k a year……for a flashlight? Yeah the Pelican M6 was a viable option.

We can sit here in 2019 and arm chair quarterback the M6 easily. So fast forward to today and think about all the police and other first responders who carry Defiants, 511, and other less expensive lights those of us at a flashlight forum dismiss as inferior……

As a platform to add P60 upgrades they aren't that bad even today. And with the front end being a bit wider inside they can take some of the wide shoulder modules that a 6P cannot. I have a 1000 lumen Sportac module nobody here at CPF wanted because it would not fit in a SureFire. Add a Malkoff clicky and it is a nice little photon cannon.

We can debate all day the Peli versus SureFire, but in the early days if you go back back and read old threads the M6 did not catch on as a modding platform for a number of reasons, which were mostly centered around a market that just preffered to purchase the SureFire lights. By the time the modifications were done except for a SureFire logo on the outside they were no longer anymore SureFire than fivemega's customs were or in todays world Lumens Factory's e-bodies.
 
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ampdude

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It's all a matter of perspective. There are people who make over a million dollars a year who wouldn't purchase a $60 flashlight, but drive a $500,000 car. It just all depends on your perceived priorities. Most people I know who make good money look at the price of a SF and just automatically say that's too expensive and don't look any further.

In my world, even when I was working a part time job, I was never too broke to not be able to afford a SF E2 over either a Pelican M6 OR a SF 6P.
 

Monocrom

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It's all a matter of perspective. There are people who make over a million dollars a year who wouldn't purchase a $60 flashlight, but drive a $500,000 car. It just all depends on your perceived priorities. Most people I know who make good money look at the price of a SF and just automatically say that's too expensive and don't look any further.

I used to work at Marymount Manhattan College. Their oldest in-house security officer was a dude who looked like Santa, and acted anything but. (Well, unless you were attractive, young, and female. Then he was super nice.) Quite frankly, even if you treated him with respect, he lacked the braincells to see it; and would even get mad because he thought you disrespected him. His dad worked at the school before he was born. Then became head of maintenance. "Santa" was the sort of guy with no dreams, no ambitions. He was very fortunate in Life to basically go work for his dad at the school when he was younger. Eventually later on becoming head of maintenance. When the school decided it needed to hire security officers, they did so in-house. Guess who was at the right place at the right time? Bit more money, far less work.

That window soon closed as the school decided later to just contract out the work, and save a buck. So, making basically an impressive six-figure salary a year as a security officer; what did "Santa" carry as his light on the job. A Streamlight 1AAA Microstream. He once tried to tell me how having a light is important. Did it while inside the main auditorium at the school. The beam couldn't even travel to the darkened stage. Again, six figures. Absolutely pathetic. Thankfully, I ended up working a different shift than he did. Later being transferred to the school's dorms. Didn't have to work with Anti-Santa ever again.
 

yazkaz

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At the time the 2320 was a good value. The 6P was a better value, yet for the low paid first responders the Pelican was a lot better option when faced to choose between a minimag or a 6P.
A decade later, why it wasn't a viable option for the modding crowd is easy to understand. Yet for those with a Peli stashed in a drawer somewhere it can become modernized without a lot of work.
There used to be a bunch of NOS 2320s on this listing. Now there's only one left:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pelican-Fl...010258&hash=item5d7d9fea2a:g:9dcAAOSwSEZa~vWF

There has to be a reason why. Cab someone figure that out?

BTW I also bought one from that seller before. Recently had that host reanodized in HA3 hard clear (OD nat) and results blew me away. The reanodize treatment on a Peli M6 has always been superior to that on an SF 6P, prompting me to suspect the aluminum substrate is of much better grade (minimum 6061 T6).
 

ampdude

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There used to be a bunch of NOS 2320s on this listing. Now there's only one left:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pelican-Fl...010258&hash=item5d7d9fea2a:g:9dcAAOSwSEZa~vWF

There has to be a reason why. Cab someone figure that out?

BTW I also bought one from that seller before. Recently had that host reanodized in HA3 hard clear (OD nat) and results blew me away. The reanodize treatment on a Peli M6 has always been superior to that on an SF 6P, prompting me to suspect the aluminum substrate is of much better grade (minimum 6061 T6).

Can you elaborate on that a little? How did the results compare more favorably to that of a type III natural finish Surefire? And who did you have the anodizing done by?

Or are you saying that you had complete clear anodizing done and do you have one of those rare 6P or 9P clear models to compare it to?
 

yazkaz

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Can you elaborate on that a little? How did the results compare more favorably to that of a type III natural finish Surefire? And who did you have the anodizing done by?
Or are you saying that you had complete clear anodizing done and do you have one of those rare 6P or 9P clear models to compare it to?
Stock (factory original) SF HAIII parts often look great, but AFAIK those may not be of true hard clear anodize but instead colored anodize to mimic the OD/tactical green look. Only the very early SF bodies/parts were done in true hard clear HAIII so I've been told.

For the past few years I've had various SF bodies and parts redone in HAIII. Last year I switched to another plater in NorCal and had all parts done in hard black. This year I had a majority of parts hopefully done in colored HAIII but the plater did those in hard clear (OD nat) instead. Of the five 6P bodies I've submitted for hard clear only three achieved the intended results/shading, but the remaining two turned out very pale grey. So at the suggestion of the plater I had those two "redyed" in hard black instead.

Prior to that I also had parts reanodized at another facility in the South Bay vicinity (San Jose), only to have run into the same situation -- pale grey. The non-SF parts however -- including a PEU Pineapple body -- turned out great and achieved the intended shading (albeit a tad darker). I was then told afterwards that the SF parts in question have a very impure aluminum substrate, containing a large percentage of tin.

Back to the Peli... So last year I had a post-2014 M6 (2320) host redone in HAIII hard black, and the results were stunning. Very smooth finish throughout (no polishing was involved beforehand), made me wonder at some point if the plater accidentally redid it in HAII, and that the host's aluminum substrate could be 6061 or better. This year though I had a pre-2014 M6 host redone in OD as I felt that the stock HAII finish is a bit on the coarse side and won't hold well in the long run. The redone OD host looks nothing compared to a stock HAIII M6 (2390 LED) with the signature thick matte, light OD green finish. I consider this M6 "refab" a total success, but not quite so on the 6P bodies (the bezels and tailcaps however turned out great) as the results vary depending on the aluminum substrate quality.
 

bykfixer

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BTW I also bought one from that seller before. Recently had that host reanodized in HA3 hard clear (OD nat) and results blew me away. The reanodize treatment on a Peli M6 has always been superior to that on an SF 6P, prompting me to suspect the aluminum substrate is of much better grade (minimum 6061 T6).

Hard clear? What does that look like? Raw alluminum perhaps? Is it dull? Matte? Shiney?

I definitely like(d) the finish on the 2390's. I lucked up a while back and found 2 like new ones, $25 for both (including shipping).
 
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