why so much hate towards electric cars?

DRW

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As mentioned previously, neither the public charging station infrastructure exists (or will in the near future) nor the grid power capacity. Ironically enough, one of the states pushing EVs hardest can't power it's current demand and is trying to prolong the life of its sole aged nuclear plant for 5-10 years due to it's prematurely forced portfolio of renewable power. For years my former employer warned state bureaucrats (w/o effect) about the reckless dismissal of spinning reserve and reliance on unreliable energy. And now they want to require 100% of the vehicles sold in California to be electric by 2035.
Small Modular Reactors are probably the answer to the upcoming energy shortage.
 

idleprocess

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I never, ever want to own an electric-only vehicle unless they can make them completely self-sufficient, recharging off the sun or whatever, but I've always liked the gas/electric hybrids that save you energy, but still are ready to go with the gas driven backup.
Curious to demand self-sufficiency from the EV but not the ICE vehicle dependent upon extensive petroleum infrastructure.

If Aptera ever manages to release a vehicle to the market it will ... sort of ... meet this requirement, provided you can always park it in the sun and don't need to drive very far.

A shame that the PHEVs remaining on the market are so disappointing with such short EV range. The GM Volt and BMW i3 REx were both very interesting ideas with acceptable EV range that have been discontinued - what remains on the market averages something like 25 miles' of EV range.

Start making some electric vehicles that can travel 1,000 miles without having to stop for recharges and have enough power to go over mountain passes and they'll see some massive interest generated.
You'd be hard pressed to find an ICE vehicle with a 1000 mile range after extensive modification, nevermind from the factory.

If 1/10th of the cars & trucks on the road today ran on electric power the entire power grid would fail from the demand that couldn't be met today using fossil fuel, never mind using renewables sources.
This claim is oft repeated as a matter of faith when it's simply not true. Even in states with ICE phaseouts - ala CA, WA - it will take many years beyond the nominal deadlines for EV share to reach 10%. Regardless, the bulk of EV charging is done overnight representing a load similar to an air conditioning compressor or electric dryer when there's generation capacity idling away. Otherwise, like the growth of more mundane demands on the grid - megalomarts and air conditioning compressors - EV uptake will happen over time and can be planned on.

Even 'outsourcing' the pollution is beneficial: power stations tend not to be in population centers, are more efficient than automobile engines, and have better pollution controls than automobile engines. The grid is also cleaning up steadily over time so waiting for whatever standard of clean perfection one wishes for isn't achieving anything.

EV will work fantastic for some cities and some groups of people....not so much for others. It really is as simple as that.
EV might be perfect for a person in New York City living in a condo...not so much for the East Texas rodeo family.
The core market for EVs are city-dwellers with access to private off-street parking who drive less than 50 miles per day. At something like ⅔ of the population this represents a large market for the automakers. They can switch-hit as leisurely road trip vehicles and some of the electric light-duty trucks look like they could work out as jobsite vehicles for trades operating within a metro area. But they're not well suited to long-distance freight operations; even the battery-electric heavy-duty OTR trucks being demo'ed will be best suited to short-hop distribution runs.

To be completely fair 10 years of everyone going balls to the wall with EVs won’t do diddly, the technology isn’t mature enough for that kind of leap in development just from more popularity.
EV production is supply constrained and will remain so for at least another decade, probably longer. From what I've gathered of the ICE phaseouts in CA and WA the timelines are aspirational with so many market conditions to be met that they're certain to miss their milestone dates by years if not a decade or more. I expect that ICE vehicles will remain on the market - even in states with phaseouts - for another 20+ years.

I mean trains run off batteries....they are charged with huge diesel generators on board...but still, they run off batteries.
Outside of the handful of hybrid switching locomotives in existence, as far as I know diesel-electric locomotives drive the motors directly off of the generator output. Pure battery-electric units are being prototyped - presumably these will work as switchers and possibly on the handful of electrified mainline tracks where they can bridge gaps.

[...]

I'm seeing much mention of charging infrastructure as a stumbling block. This is relevant to those without access to private off-street parking, but not the ⅔ of the (US) population that lives in standalone detached housing. A 14-50 outlet will provide L2 charging capable of delivering about 200 miles of range in 8 hours (32A x 240V net power delivery, 300 Wh/mile). Since most commuters drive well under 200 miles a day, routine charge times will be closer to 2 hours or less a night.

Those without access to private off-street parking are dependent upon nascent public charging infrastructure. I suspect that some of this will be alleviated as apartment complexes with resident parking - motivated by the uptake of EVs - introduce charging at designated spots for residents. For others there's the gas station model for ICE vehicles - public fast charging - however this will take a toll on battery pack longevity since fast-charging is harder on the cell chemistry than slow charging.

(minor edits for clarity)
 
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Chauncey Gardiner

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That's a bit more truck than my Diesel F350. With semis converting, I bet the smaller trucks are next. I haven't seen much news on the trucks that tow 20,000 to 50,000 pounds.

The Rivian R1T is capable of towing up to 11,000 pounds. ....... $76,000 - $85,000. Too much for this guy.
 
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KITROBASKIN

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Seems like the complaints (most don't really hate) are based on current circumstances. Change for the good does take time; Time and Money. Distributed electrical generation using solar is also being held up to some degree by supply dynamics, right?

Sounds like resources will be directed to improve energy needs for more people in the coming years. There will be mistakes as a result of political/bureaucratic error and ego bloat. We can look forward to an improved life, though habits will need to change as well. Hopefully those in power will be more understanding of the resentful citizens and show more respect while also slowing down and try to stop the few who are stepping on the rest of us, doing what are frankly abusive, selfish, inconsiderate behaviors; Dumping used motor oil on the ground kind of ignorant/psychopath disregard.
 

kaichu dento

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Curious to demand self-sufficiency from the EV but not the ICE vehicle dependent upon extensive petroleum infrastructure.

If Aptera ever manages to release a vehicle to the market it will ... sort of ... meet this requirement, provided you can always park it in the sun and don't need to drive very far.

You'd be hard pressed to find an ICE vehicle with a 1000 mile range after extensive modification, nevermind from the factory.
Not if you think beneath the surface at what it means in correlation to the subject at hand; user friendliness. A trip of 1,000 miles requires of few minutes to stretch your legs every few hundred miles. When they can make recharging as fast and as findable as it is for gas stations then the equation will change.

Every non-electric vehicle can go 1,000 miles with much less hassle than the rechargeables, but if they get the self-recharging car that you're talking about, that'll be a huge game changer and make a lot more of us interested. Make it affordable for those of us who have never owned a new car too please.
 

kerneldrop

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how long do the batteries last before needing replaced? What’s that cost now?
 

AstroTurf

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car ownership is not in the current governments long game plans...

a two year lease perhaps, along with an assessment and evaluation to determine whether you can lease another two years or not...

y'all better buy a bicycle now!!!

LOLz
 

raggie33

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look at battery powered tools i have one thats super small smaller then the average drill yet it can remove lugnuts
 

3_gun

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I don't hate electric cars. I hate what they represent. Tax refunds for the rich while I get raked over the coals. The lack of truth about why. You aren't meant to have a car, electric or otherwise in the plan. You are to be forced out of the country & suburbs, into center cities where you'll walk or ride a bike. It's why here in Ohio they keep pushing a train plan to connect Cleveland, Columbus & Cincinnati; following the I71 footprint, that nobody wants. Those will be the only places you'll be allowed to live. They are our "saviours" keeping us from destroying the planet by traveling freely or eating something other than lab made swill, seaweed & bugs. Of course none of these plans apply to them. You have to much compared to most of the world, your standard of living needs to be lowered to make things even, unless you're one of them. The longer they can get you to talk about electric cars or something else the further along they get into ruling your life, cradle to grave
 

LRJ88

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That’s not exactly a good comparison in this case, i have a flashlight that can set fire to my pockets but it doesn’t mean much in the context of sustainable cars in this case in regards to how they work.

This is a response to raggie33, but quotes seem to not work on my phone.
 
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bykfixer

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I don't hate electric cars. I hate what they represent. Tax refunds for the rich while I get raked over the coals. The lack of truth about why. You aren't meant to have a car, electric or otherwise in the plan. You are to be forced out of the country & suburbs, into center cities where you'll walk or ride a bike. It's why here in Ohio they keep pushing a train plan to connect Cleveland, Columbus & Cincinnati; following the I71 footprint, that nobody wants. Those will be the only places you'll be allowed to live. They are our "saviours" keeping us from destroying the planet by traveling freely or eating something other than lab made swill, seaweed & bugs. Of course none of these plans apply to them. You have to much compared to most of the world, your standard of living needs to be lowered to make things even, unless you're one of them. The longer they can get you to talk about electric cars or something else the further along they get into ruling your life, cradle to grave
C'mon man, give me a break.

Nah, seriously where I live 3 and 4 story apartment complexes are popping up like mushrooms in August. The thing is they fill up as fast as they are built.

There's an entire generation of lemmings walking in lockstep toward the utopia being provided by the nwo. You point it out and get shouted down or worse. Yet on the other side of the fence is a guy with a really loud, tall truck who carries a couple of ugly, mean and nasty looking lightweight rifles with ammo belts like Rambo shouting Orange Man will rise again.

In other words you have one group cowering in fear that the planet has 8 years before we all burn to a crisp, and another group doing their best to make it happen in 6. Meanwhile there's common sense in the middle somewhere, it's just covered up by all of that shouting from one side and cars going pop pop pop from the other side.

One thing I do like is the Americans with Disability's Act folks are talking about adding something to EV's to make a sound so that blind folks out and about in major cities can hear the car. I hope it's something cool like the Mario Bros theme and not some "bwaaaaaaah pop pop pop" sound.... sigh 🙈
 

raggie33

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i still predict evs will be cheaper then gas cars in 10 years and then evs will have a motor in each wheel hub makeing amazeing awd
 

idleprocess

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Not if you think beneath the surface at what it means in correlation to the subject at hand; user friendliness. A trip of 1,000 miles requires of few minutes to stretch your legs every few hundred miles. When they can make recharging as fast and as findable as it is for gas stations then the equation will change.
I've taken sufficiently few 1,000 mile road trips that the refueling interval is far down my list of considerations when evaluating a vehicle. On every such road trip I welcomed the opportunity to stretch my legs at intervals both more frequent and for longer than refueling required.

I make a mere ~260 mile road trip several times a year and normally make a stop along the way regardless of fuel level. If I had an EV and needed to recharge along the way there's a Tesla supercharger a tad off the highway around the halfway point that's within easy walking distance of the historic town square - far more interesting and pleasant than a random gas station or highway rest stop.

Convenience is relative. I'll trade a longer 'refueling' interval for plug-and-forget vs the active supervision of filling a car with gasoline then being obliged to move it elsewhere so one can actually stretch legs.

I still want to see an example of your original goalpost automobile with a 1,000 mile range.

There's an entire generation of lemmings walking in lockstep toward the utopia being provided by the nwo. You point it out and get shouted down or worse. Yet on the other side of the fence is a guy with a really loud, tall truck who carries a couple of ugly, mean and nasty looking lightweight rifles with ammo belts like Rambo shouting Orange Man will rise again.

In other words you have one group cowering in fear that the planet has 8 years before we all burn to a crisp, and another group doing their best to make it happen in 6. Meanwhile there's common sense in the middle somewhere, it's just covered up by all of that shouting from one side and cars going pop pop pop from the other side.
Now there's some imagery that speaks to modern times.

There are loudmouths shrieking with messianic conviction all around all issues culture war, which invariably includes motor vehicles. It's apparent that an EV would work for my needs - and others in a similar situation - and would like to purchase one in a few years.
 

RWT1405

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I've taken sufficiently few 1,000 mile road trips that the refueling interval is far down my list of considerations when evaluating a vehicle. On every such road trip I welcomed the opportunity to stretch my legs at intervals both more frequent and for longer than refueling required.

I make a mere ~260 mile road trip several times a year and normally make a stop along the way regardless of fuel level. If I had an EV and needed to recharge along the way there's a Tesla supercharger a tad off the highway around the halfway point that's within easy walking distance of the historic town square - far more interesting and pleasant than a random gas station or highway rest stop.

Convenience is relative. I'll trade a longer 'refueling' interval for plug-and-forget vs the active supervision of filling a car with gasoline then being obliged to move it elsewhere so one can actually stretch legs.

I still want to see an example of your original goalpost automobile with a 1,000 mile range.


Now there's some imagery that speaks to modern times.

There are loudmouths shrieking with messianic conviction all around all issues culture war, which invariably includes motor vehicles. It's apparent that an EV would work for my needs - and others in a similar situation - and would like to purchase one in a few years.

Duly noted…….
 

RWT1405

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I've taken sufficiently few 1,000 mile road trips that the refueling interval is far down my list of considerations when evaluating a vehicle. On every such road trip I welcomed the opportunity to stretch my legs at intervals both more frequent and for longer than refueling required.

I make a mere ~260 mile road trip several times a year and normally make a stop along the way regardless of fuel level. If I had an EV and needed to recharge along the way there's a Tesla supercharger a tad off the highway around the halfway point that's within easy walking distance of the historic town square - far more interesting and pleasant than a random gas station or highway rest stop.

Convenience is relative. I'll trade a longer 'refueling' interval for plug-and-forget vs the active supervision of filling a car with gasoline then being obliged to move it elsewhere so one can actually stretch legs.

I still want to see an example of your original goalpost automobile with a 1,000 mile range.


Now there's some imagery that speaks to modern times.

There are loudmouths shrieking with messianic conviction all around all issues culture war, which invariably includes motor vehicles. It's apparent that an EV would work for my needs - and others in a similar situation - and would like to purchase one in a few years.

I’m glad that an EV meets YOUR needs.

However, EV’s do not meet MY needs, and I doubt they will ever be able to in my lifetime.

Many people are tired of having EV’s shoved down our throats.

To not make this political, I’ll stop here………
 
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