Why Surefire?
- Thread starter TwinBlade
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TwinBlade
Enlightened
I went to a knife making event a year or 2 back and one of the gentlemen there had an E1E that he was showing to folks. Lots of output, little package, great looking beam. Far better than any maglite or energizer that I saw, and I was actually impressed for a gas bulb. Believe me when I say, I was happy to land both aspects of this light. I only shined the incan in the dark basement, but it was a very impressive light output. I just wish the runtime was longer. If it were, I would probably make it a primary bulb.😎
BTW, the only thing I understood was 6P...LMAO!
BTW, the only thing I understood was 6P...LMAO!
First i don't know why surefire "overpriced" compared to other light that has similar function with SF light.
After start buying SF and a lot of reading here in CPF now it make sense why the SF is "overpriced".
First i get quality from every SF light which is this already becoming a public secret here on CPF besides that IMHO we pay "insurance" for our SF light that has been included on every SF light tag price. That being said here, in USA we could expect same day delivered service for SF parts which we could not expect that in Chinese brand light for example.
morelightnow
Enlightened
My only surefire experience is from a G2 outfitted with a dereelight dropin. Its a nice light but I only bought it because my wife likes yellow. I prefer to use Ni-Mh or LifePO4 battery chemistry so surefire lights are not for me. I would definitely own one if they came in my battery choice because I know I'd be getting a light that works perfectly when it arrives. If not, then surefire would make it work with no hassle.
It reminds me of mags. They actually do have really good and consistent build quality for their price. Surefire is the same way, but they add the awesome output and state of the art electronics to go with it.
It reminds me of mags. They actually do have really good and consistent build quality for their price. Surefire is the same way, but they add the awesome output and state of the art electronics to go with it.
ElectronGuru
Flashaholic
There are differences like who makes each and attention to detail, but the main difference is heat management.
Most non Malkoff dropins are based on the original P60 design, a reflector cone with an outer spring connecting it to the body. Heat builds up in and around the bulb, has no way to get out and no where to go. With original incan, this was not only not bad, it was actually good. Halogen bulbs rely on a certain level of heat to recycle the metal that burns off the coil. And the extra heat they do give off, can largely escape through radiation (metal -> air).
LEDs are opposite. They hate heat. And the heat they generate must be conducted away (metal -> metal). Doing this well means having metal around the base of LED, as well as in contact with the body. Gene's design does both these things. The result is longer continuous output and less damage to the LED.
But as everyone is doing so well to point out, it comes back to level of need. If its a casual light you play with, the extra reliability is not that important. But its also difficult to find in a spec sheet.
jchoo
Enlightened
Okay, quick helpful breakdown...
Surefire's incan lamp assemblies that will fit in your light are:
P60 (60 lumens, 60 minutes, 6 volts)
P61 (120 lumens, 20 minutes, 6 volts)
P90 (105 lumens, 60 minutes, 9 volts)
P91 (200 lumens, 20 minutes, 9 volts)
They all share the same form factor and will fit in any of the C/P/G series of lights from Surefire, however, powering them is a different story.
The 6P, C2, G2, and M2 are all 2 cell, 6 volt lights, designed to work with the P60/P61. You can physically put the P90/P91 lamp assemblies into these lights, but on regular CR123 batteries they won't run. What Brigadier suggested is to use an aftermarket assembly from Lumens Factory (http://www.lighthound.com/Lumens-Fa...ssembly-for-SureFire-C-P-Z-Series_p_1006.html) with two 3.7v rechargeable lithium ion batteries from AW (http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=191277). As you can see, this gives you a real incandescent pocket rocket - 380 lumens for about a half hour or so on rechargeable batteries.
As far as the Malkoff vs. cheap dropins question, I have used both, and the reason I wholeheartedly recommended the Malkoff was because of its build quality. The potted electronics will be far more shock resistant (suitable for use in weaponlights) than the cheaper screw together modules, and the extra mass of the Malkoff dropin and the tapered shape allow for better heatsinking. The reason I linked that particular dropin (M61L) was because it is regulated at a high output level for a long period of time - a great balance. I would question the output numbers for the cheaper dropins, as not all of them have the same quality/level of regulated output, and some of the output numbers are based on extrapolated figures from the manufacturer's specs - not actual measured output (as you get from manufacturers like Malkoff and Surefire).
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red02
Enlightened
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2010
- Messages
- 975
Which other dropins have you tried?
Deree dropins have fully potted electronics, even though they are the "screw together" type.
The output on my 3-stage 0.9-4.2v XRE R2 is competitive on a single CR123 with a 2xCR123 lights that I have. On an AA it does about 90 minutes @ 80lm. Just as described when I bought it.
Although Malkoff is high quality, its not the only option. There are many good dropins out there.
TwinBlade
Enlightened
red02/jchoo, both of you are vastly filling my knowledge void here. I am really appreciating both of your additional attention to detail in input.
regarding a firearm usage...
I shoot IPSC and IDPA. For those that do not know what it is, they are basically practical and applied shooting at varying distances, in a timed event regarding center mass accuracy. I prefer it to shooting at spots because I am of the opinion that dot shooting is meant for something with a minimum of a 22" barrel. 😀
The point I am making, is my practical usage of a handgun is at 25' or less in self defense. I can instinctually hit centermass at that distance without any light. Many thousands of rounds beyond that range help with this. I also use tritium sites for my defense guns. If I need to use a sight, they glow real well, but in a panic situation, they really are of little value. This explains why I do not need a flashlight for defense. If you get into my house, the dogs will shred you, I will finish you, you are dead, you cannot testify against me in a liberal court and I continue with my life.
My needs come from using light in the woods. I hunt, fish, camp and explore, regardless of time of day. Flood and throw both have their place with me, but ultimately I put my value in longevity of batteries. Being a fond flashoholic, I really am impressed with high output over a long distance.
These two things lead me to believe that in order to fill both voids, I need both drop ins. 😀
regarding a firearm usage...
I shoot IPSC and IDPA. For those that do not know what it is, they are basically practical and applied shooting at varying distances, in a timed event regarding center mass accuracy. I prefer it to shooting at spots because I am of the opinion that dot shooting is meant for something with a minimum of a 22" barrel. 😀
The point I am making, is my practical usage of a handgun is at 25' or less in self defense. I can instinctually hit centermass at that distance without any light. Many thousands of rounds beyond that range help with this. I also use tritium sites for my defense guns. If I need to use a sight, they glow real well, but in a panic situation, they really are of little value. This explains why I do not need a flashlight for defense. If you get into my house, the dogs will shred you, I will finish you, you are dead, you cannot testify against me in a liberal court and I continue with my life.
My needs come from using light in the woods. I hunt, fish, camp and explore, regardless of time of day. Flood and throw both have their place with me, but ultimately I put my value in longevity of batteries. Being a fond flashoholic, I really am impressed with high output over a long distance.
These two things lead me to believe that in order to fill both voids, I need both drop ins. 😀
SmurfTacular
Enlightened
Last time I participated in a SureFire argument, it almost resulted in me facing time off CPF. Really temped to chime in, but I don't want to risk it, I love CPF to much.
TwinBlad I made the same realization as you when I discovered CPF. There is a whole lot more to flashlights than I ever imagined. I found this site shortly after buying my first surefire(C2-HA). Since then I have purchased several drop ins of different application and functions. There is a ton of ways to get a drop in to meet your needs and there are several that I have never had a problem with. Yes just like everything else some have went bad or gotten damaged but that is the nature of my job. I have just recently ordered my first malkoff however and am definately looking forward to putting it to the same test. When you feel a little more comfortable with your knowledge level I would also give Nailbender a try he is a CPF member that makes custom drop ins(among other mods). I have never once had a problem with anything he has built but I know that he is just a message away if I need help.
Just in the last week I have purchased a M60, a 6P, a C3-HA, and a Nailbender SST-90 6500K 1-mode. This stuff will really suck you in, and your wallet with you!
Just in the last week I have purchased a M60, a 6P, a C3-HA, and a Nailbender SST-90 6500K 1-mode. This stuff will really suck you in, and your wallet with you!
angelofwar
Flashlight Enthusiast
That's the Kool-aid...once ya drink it, it tastes so good...looking to get a 2nd C3-HA myself, after I realized 1 wasn't enough...I need one for "business" and the other for playing with...
Check this thread out TwinBlade...within 1 week (if you have the funds), you will buy a C2 or C3-HA...
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=206975
They finished that pitcher and had to start another...
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=243896
Drink-Up!
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AnAppleSnail
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'm starting to think that I don't know incandescent lights...since the only ones I have used are M@glites, giant spotlights, and other crummy low-voltage jobbies.
Edit: But man, I really like the runtimes LED gives me. I guess if this weren't a hard choice it wouldn't be any fun!
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PCC
Flashlight Enthusiast
What you need, sir, are more lights. For different purposes you should be using different lights. A Surefire 6P is a perfect light for certain situations but not the ideal light for all situations. If it was the perfect light for every situation then Surefire would only be making the 6P and nothing else. Would you use a S&W Model 60 for hunting deer? Would you use a 30-06 for varminting? No, you would use the right tool for the job.
You asked, a few pages back, if there were other manufacturers with the same warranty as Surefire's and have not received an answer. Here's a list that someone else had created and that I had recompiled to show different levels of warranty. I have not updated this list in a while but I should as there have been a few new flashlight manufacturers enter the market since then. You'll notice that Surefire didn't make the "Unconditional - you break it, we fix it, no questions asked" category but people have found that this is the actual level of service that they get from them. This list is based upon their written warranty and I'm sure other companies offer the same level of warranty even though their written warranty is less.
TwinBlade
Enlightened
Thanks for that warranty list.
I agree on the tool for the job statement. I have 9 or 10 LED flashlights ranging from the tiny iTP A3 to the new Fenix TK12 with 280 lumens and pretty much every void filled in between those 2 both in size and lumen output.
I do not have the money currently to go and pick up a couple more SF's and put aftermarket parts into each one. If I buy 2 Malkoffs or a Malkoff and a Thrunight, I will have 4 lamp/LED bulbs for this new 6PD to swap out as needs arise and tide me over until I buy more SF's. 😀
I agree on the tool for the job statement. I have 9 or 10 LED flashlights ranging from the tiny iTP A3 to the new Fenix TK12 with 280 lumens and pretty much every void filled in between those 2 both in size and lumen output.
I do not have the money currently to go and pick up a couple more SF's and put aftermarket parts into each one. If I buy 2 Malkoffs or a Malkoff and a Thrunight, I will have 4 lamp/LED bulbs for this new 6PD to swap out as needs arise and tide me over until I buy more SF's. 😀
PCC
Flashlight Enthusiast
In cycling, whenever someone asks, "How many bikes do you need?" The answer that is always given is, "N = N+1" where N is the number of bikes you have now. The same thing applies to lights. LOL!
jchoo
Enlightened
TwinBlade
Enlightened
I am not entirely sure I can go along with you on that one. I used to use a maglite or Gerber light for hunting. Both are incandescent. The last deer I took, I had my Inova T1 with me. The light is snow white. I put an arrow through a deer with only about 10 minutes of light left. She ran, I heard her crash about 50 yards away. I got out of my stand, walked back to the camper, cracked a beer and waited for about 30 minutes and went to go get her. That Inova lit blood up far better than any incandescent bulb I have ever used. I will never use another non LED light, at least in a hunting endeavor.:thumbsup:
oldways
Enlightened
TB you love and spend a great deal of time in the outdoors. I suggest get yourself.
SF M6
Will Quiles Phd-M6 regulated pack
AW 17670 batts
SF MN15 SFMN61 SF MN21 lamp assemblies.
You can sell a gun to do this:devil:
You will the have 200 400 600 regulated bright white incand otf lumens in a beautiful beam...guilt free lumens.:thumbsup:
oldways
Enlightened
Use a GOOD incand outdoors and you will keep the led inside where it belongs:nana:
