Why the dislike for Maglites?

[Jash]

Okay, is this a mag vs. everyone else, or a D cell vs. everything else?

I've got a 3D (not maglite) with an XP-G that can shine 200ish lumens without any drop in output for 15+ hours, then run for another week with usable light. And that's off alkalines too. Find me a small light that can do that.

Don't get me wrong, most of my lights are 2AA or single CR123, but there is still a place for big lights with large capacity batteries and the ability to install massive heat sinks to get lots of reliable lumens. Maglite simply happens to be the maker of the best value for money C-D cell lights on the planet, for modding purposes of course.

And I doubt this thread will see too much more life before it gets closed.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

I don't think the output is as low as 20 lumens.

The Mag brand LED drop-in, which is what you said you were using, is rated at 50 lumens, so a 50% drop brings you down to 25 lumens, and that's assuming that 100% of the light produced by the LED makes it out of the front of the flashlight, which I can assure you is not the case (Mag has some of the worst optics in the industry), so assuming your Maglite running at 50% produces as much as 20 lumens is an extremely generous estimate. That's not even taking into account the fact that what LEDs are rated and what they actually produce can differ by as much as 40% (LED manufacturers rate their LEDs assuming ideal conditions).

I didn't know this light. I searched the web and saw that its runtime can reach 23 hours but I only found the output measured in lux, not lumens. If it can really give as much light as a 4D Maglite (in the mode that has a runtime of 23 hours), then for sure it's cool.

It can, and that's a flat discharge. HDS lights are some of the most technologically advanced in the industry.

Yes, I wonder why but unfortunately I want to stick to "classic" alkaline batteries. I dislike having one chance out of 4000 of explosion.

To my knowledge, there is only a chance of explosion with mismatched cells. If you're running a single CR123 cell then the chances of explosion are pretty much slim to none.

You partly convinced me. At least the Maglite is very cheap, solid, and has a really huge runtime. You can't buy it and feel ripped off, I guess.

It depends on what you're looking for, but with low-priced, high-quality lights on the market from companies like 4Sevens and Fenix, Mag no longer has the price advantage it used to.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

Sorry, but this is an example of a retarded lawsuit made even worse by the fact that the lawyers Arc hired were clearly incompetent.

You're begging the question.

Let's just agree to disagree, k? 🙂

 

[KiwiMark]

here's a what-if for you: what if I expect no less than 80 lumens for 7 hours? 200 lumens for 2 hours? Will the Maglite still hold up, what-if you had a drop-in and all? I must apologize for you getting in the crosshairs. I have no qualms with Maglite drop-ins, simply the claim that a Maglite represents the pinnacle of performance, which it cannot due to several flaws in the overall package. (Poor heatsinking, high-resistance springs, relatively inefficient driver, and the use of alkalines, to name a few.)

raco's key point is that the MagLED, (which presumes its stock form) is an unbeatable package. It is this claim that I am disputing.

I must be reading a different thread - I can't recall seeing the standard MagLED or the Alkaline D cells being touted as the be all and end all anywhere in this thread. I have just re-read each post in this thread by raco and I don't think he has said anything significant above and beyond:
- He likes the really long run time.
- The size & weight aren't an issue to him.
- He has no problem with the beam pattern.
- The output level seems to be fine for his uses.
- In terms of run time for the output he doesn't believe that the Mag 4D can be beaten.

My opinion:
Alkalines are rubbish and to prove it you throw them away when they are flat - I use 10Ah NiMH rechargeables in my long run-time Mag 4D. I have never been a fan of using alkalines in Maglites and never realised that the use of alkalines was compulsory.

I have never used a MagLED, but I have read that they aren't very good due to heating up and the output dropping to ~55%.

With my Malkoff LED drop-in it would be too easy to get 80 Lumen for 7 hours - I believe that I get over twice that output for ~10 hours. The Malkoff drop-in DOES have good heat sinking and works very well with an otherwise stock Mag 4D.

For 200 Lumen for 2 hours - that's too easy to beat too. I can go incan and get 500+ Lumen for 2 hours from a Mag 2D. That is done using 2 x 32650 Li-ion cells and a 3854-L bulb. My Mag 4D w/Malkoff would be outputting somewhere close to 200 Lumen and it runs for 10 hours.

Now it might be also worth considering that raco is new here and does not deserve to be torn apart just because he likes a light that other people feel is too big and heavy for THEIR tastes. How about we play nice and let other people have preferences different to our own?

 

[WDG]

I really can't fault Mag for that because the Arc was, at least by appearance, practically a carbon copy of the Solitaire, right down to the Solitaire's distinctive packaging.

Anyone have pics of the Arc from then? The ones I've seen look nothing like the Solitaire I used to have, so I assume Arc changed the design?

 

[Monocrom]

You're begging the question.

Let's just agree to disagree, k? 🙂

Totally K. :buddies:

 

[TedTheLed]

because Mag is a big bloated irrational litiginous bully of a company that uses it's deep pockets to monopolize the flashlight business by driving the competition into bankruptcy with court costs..
How they (and rich people) use the courts should be a crime.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

I can't recall seeing the standard MagLED or the Alkaline D cells being touted as the be all and end all anywhere in this thread.

Maybe I'm reading into raco's posts, but when he continually presented his 4D Mag LED as the one to beat in terms of output and run times, he was effectively declaring it as the standard against which other lights must be compared. That being the case, we're going to need something better than "It looks pretty bright to me" in order to make any kind of meaningful comparison.

 

[KiwiMark]

Maybe I'm reading into raco's posts, but when he continually presented his 4D Mag LED as the one to beat in terms of output and run times, he was effectively declaring it as the standard against which other lights must be compared.

You couldn't quote his posts that say that could you? I don't want to read the whole thread again and I just don't recall reading anything to suggest that raco thought that the 4D Mag LED was the one to beat in terms of output. Feel free to post a quote to disprove what I'm saying. The Mag 4D has plenty of battery power available and has a REALLY long run time for the output level, with a better heatsinked drop-in it has the capability of performing even better.

I think maybe you are right, you are reading into raco's post - seeing more than he is writing. He has said he thought it would be outputting more than 22 Lumen, he never mentioned knowing the actual output figures or believing the output to be spectacular.

 

[raco]

raco's key point is that the MagLED, (which presumes its stock form) is an unbeatable package. It is this claim that I am disputing.

No, I didn't say that ;-).

Maybe I'm reading into raco's posts, but when he continually presented his 4D Mag LED as the one to beat in terms of output and run times, he was effectively declaring it as the standard against which other lights must be compared. That being the case, we're going to need something better than "It looks pretty bright to me" in order to make any kind of meaningful comparison.

I didn't say that either. There is no single light that is the standard against which other lights must be compared, of course.

I can understand that many people dislike Maglites. But when I read this forum or other forums, I'd say it's rather hate than dislike. To my mind, this is unfair. If you want to mock something, this light is more appropriate:

Of course they are big lights, and I never said it was a quality. For me, considering that they are cheap, size is their only serious flaw (though I must admit that when I bought my 4D, I wanted to buy a 6D instead because it was bigger, but the shop ran out of stock so I bought a 4D). I realize that lab tests can show many other flaws, but those lights are really more than useable in reality. I have been using my 4D for years and I never told myself « damn light, I don't see very well, I'd need a brighter light with a better beam ». It does the job, really. It can light very far and bright enough. It is reliable. And is not expensive at all. But it's big. And it's no surprise that the light that has the best runtime is the biggest light, and not the brighest.

If I was making the same reflexion you guys do about Maglites, but for cars, then I'd have to trash my 50000 dollars Audi because it is sooooo behind a 200000 dollars Ferrari, which is itself sooooo behind the 2 millions dollars Bugatti Veyron. I guess rich people would say "a 50000 dollars Audi? That's crap. It's slow and noisy". Actually this is a very good car, it's fast, reliable, and can drive me wherever I want just like most cars. But yes, in scientific tests, it is absolutely beaten by many other cars (except that it probably has better runtime ;-) ).

Actually I don't own that 50000 dollars Audi, it's just for the sake of comparison ;-). I don't even know if such a car exists, but you get the point. I can't say that the latest Cree LED is not more efficient than the LED in the Maglite I bought years ago. I can't say that D cells are the cutting edge technology. But I think I can say that Maglite is not ridiculous.

At least stock Maglites will *always* be good for this...

Yeah, at least 🙂. I remember once when a guy threatened my with his 6D Mag. Believe me, I was pretty scared.

 

[raco]

I think maybe you are right, you are reading into raco's post - seeing more than he is writing. He has said he thought it would be outputting more than 22 Lumen, he never mentioned knowing the actual output figures or believing the output to be spectacular.

If you hadn't wrote this, I could have thought that my english is worse than I thought and that what I write is not what I want to say ;-). English is not my mother tongue.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

I don't want to read the whole thread again and I just don't recall reading anything to suggest that raco thought that the 4D Mag LED was the one to beat in terms of output.

He hasn't said it explicitly, more by implication.

The Mag 4D has plenty of battery power available and has a REALLY long run time for the output level, with a better heatsinked drop-in it has the capability of performing even better.

Nobody is disputing that a modded Maglite or one using third-party drop-ins is capable of pretty good performance. What we're discussing is stock Maglite technology which is undeniably inferior to even "budget" brands like Fenix or Quark. Heck, even a Quark MiNi AA (25 OTF lumens for 8-hours) will give his 4D Maglite a serious run for its money, and it's no bigger than your index finger! Bring a 4-pack of AA batteries with you and we've more than covered that magic 45-hour run time with considerably less bulk and weight than a 4D Maglite.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

I realize that lab tests can show many other flaws, but those lights are really more than useable in reality.

And in reality, a stone is usable for pounding in nails, but I'd rather use a proper hammer. In other words, Maglite gets the job done, but it's not the best tool for the job.

 

[Fulgeo]

Then why do zero manufactures (other than maglite) have any intrest in D cell alkalines? You can go on all day on how much capacity a D cell has, the fact remains I'll take a CR123 or even a AA battery anyday over ANY D cell, and I believe 98% of the users here would also.

I do not want to be "Trollin" or to be "Trolled" but I completely disagree with this post. The D cell and for that matter lithium LiMnNi Rechargeable 26650 cells are my favorite form factor. Second place would be AA cells. I trust the chemistry of NiMH over CR123 cells. Especially when the light is at the side of the bed that I sleep in. Over all I like building a flashlight based on a 3D Mag that uses LSD NiMH D cells. This also gives me the option to use readily available D cell primary batteries in an emergency. This thread is interesting since for the most part people have a love/hate affair with Mags. I would say that the Mag D flashlights ( and to a lesser extend Mag C ) are the most popular mod hosts represented on this form. When I get a stock Mag or for that matter any flashlight in my hands I think/dream about how to make it better. This theme seems to be pretty consistent in most CPFers.

Happy Mods!

 

[alpg88]

Nobody is disputing that a modded Maglite or one using third-party drop-ins is capable of pretty good performance. What we're discussing is stock Maglite technology which is undeniably inferior to even "budget" brands like Fenix or Quark. Heck, even a Quark MiNi AA (25 OTF lumens for 8-hours) will give his 4D Maglite a serious run for its money, and it's no bigger than your index finger! Bring a 4-pack of AA batteries with you and we've more than covered that magic 45-hour run time with considerably less bulk and weight than a 4D Maglite.

i agree, however you guys comparing a corvette and pick up truck

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

i agree, however you guys comparing a corvette and pick up truck

A Quark MiNi AA costs the same as a D-cell Maglite.

 

[raco]

He hasn't said it explicitly, more by implication.

Honestly, I never meant to say that the best flashlight is made by Maglite, neither explicitly, nor by implication. I meant to say that regarding Maglites as ridiculous lights is unfair.

And in reality, a stone is usable for pounding in nails, but I'd rather use a proper hammer. In other words, Maglite gets the job done, but it's not the best tool for the job.

To have light, the best tool is a flashlight. To pound nails in, the best tool is a hammer. A high-end light and a low-end light are the same tool: a light. A high-end hammer and a low-end hammer are the same tool: a hammer. But they are of different quality. Maglite is not a tool, it's a brand that makes tools known as flashlights. When using a flashlight, of whatever brand, in order to have light, you are not using the wrong tool.

Knowing this, some lights are better than others for some lighting jobs. If all you need is to see the keyhole of your door in the dark, then the best light to do this is probably a 1 dollar keychain light, which is as low-end as you can get. When I go camping and need a couple of hours of light every day during a week, then a Maglite may be the best light, because I don't have to carry it (I just put it on the ground in my tent), because it gives me enough light (it's not difficult to light a small tent), and because I can be 100% certain that I won't have to replace the batteries a single time. This remain true even if Cree just released a new LED that is 10% more efficient.

 

[carrot]

Knowing this, some lights are better than others for some lighting jobs. If all you need is to see the keyhole of your door in the dark, then the best light to do this is probably a 1 dollar keychain light, which is as low-end as you can get. When I go camping and need a couple of hours of light every day during a week, then a Maglite may be the best light, because I don't have to carry it (I just put it on the ground in my tent), because it gives me enough light (it's not difficult to light a small tent), and because I can be 100% certain that I won't have to replace the batteries a single time. This remain true even if Cree just released a new LED that is 10% more efficient.

Didn't I just prove to you that there are smaller flashlights that are as bright and run as long?

 

[raco]

Didn't I just prove to you that there are smaller flashlights that are as bright and run as long?

Sorry if I missed something, but please give me an example. I repeat that I believe that many lights are more efficient than the Maglites, which is obvious.

 

[carrot]

Sorry if I missed something, but please give me an example. I repeat that I believe that many lights are more efficient than the Maglites, which is obvious.

Just a few posts above yours, I calculated the effective runtime of a Quark 123^2T. I showed that it runs, even in the worst case, as long as the Maglite and as bright for a much smaller package.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3487461&postcount=94