Why use rebranded batteries for Zebralight H600?

[witness]

I've been researching the 18650 battery and hearing all sorts of conflicting stuff. Zebra light recommends the Panasonic NCR18650 while many members hear claim you should go a rebranded "protected" version. Why not just use factory protected Panasonic 3100mah 18650"A" I found here:

Sales Link Removed - Norm

 

[yifu]

You could if you wish! The H600 has a nice auto cutoff at 2.8V so it is quite safe. However, in lights without that cutoff it would be more advisable to get a protected cell like a Kallie's Kustom, Redilast or AW. They all have a PCB circuit that cut offs when either over discharge, overcharge or over current is detected. All of which WILL cause the cell to vent under different circumstances, hence, the vent hole you see at the tip... And venting in a waterproofed light is a bit like a hand grenade... But most often, people who have ran torture tests just find that the gas escapes through the glass window and destroys the light, instead of exploding, which is a good thing.

 

[witness]

It seems the need for a protected battery in the H600 is moot but your comments go to the heart of my original question. Why pay a premium for a rebranded "protected" cell (for any light) when Panasonic already makes a protected cell in their "A" version of it's 18650 (which also comes in a high 3100mah model)?

 

[TooManyGizmos]

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witness .... you should do what you said in post 1 & 3 ..... no reason not to .

~

 

[yifu]

As far as i am aware, the Panasonic NCR18650A is NOT protected in any way, it is just a OEM 65mm cell. The A and B denote the typical capacity of the cells. But i do agree, most people over-exaggerate the dangers of Li-on cells, they are quite safe unless really severely abused. And they are a commodity item, instead of a specialty product for the CPF market, being found in pretty much every portable device, from phones, mp3 players, power tools all the way to laptops and camcorders.

 

[HKJ]

It seems the need for a protected battery in the H600 is moot but your comments go to the heart of my original question. Why pay a premium for a rebranded "protected" cell (for any light) when Panasonic already makes a protected cell in their "A" version of it's 18650 (which also comes in a high 3100mah model)?

It looks like the new fad is to use a clear wrap on the batteries. The battery is not made by Panasonic, only the cell, then somebody else add the protection PCB and a new wrap around the cell.

 

[TooManyGizmos]

It seems the need for a protected battery in the H600 is moot but your comments go to the heart of my original question. Why pay a premium for a rebranded "protected" cell (for any light) when Panasonic already makes a protected cell in their "A" version of it's 18650 (which also comes in a high 3100mah model)?

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His investigation seems to prove that it IS .... protected .

If he thinks it is ..... there is no need to pay more .... for his needs .

~

 

[witness]

I just discovered that the "unprotected" version sold by the same retailer is also "A" so it's obviously not the letter designation that makes it protected. Here is the description of the battery I found. I'd post the link but the moderators think I advertising or spamming or something.

Description:
Panasonic 18650 Protected
Capacity: 3100mAh
Recommended Max Discharge: 6.2A (2C)
Full charge: 4.2V
Nominal voltage: 3.6V
Cut-off: 2.5V

​

• Model: NCR18650A 3100mAh Protected
• Shipping Weight: 75g
• 200 Units in Stock
• Manufactured by: Panasonic

 

[jasonck08]

Panasonic does not make protected cells. Only the cell inside is a Panasonic cell.

 

[witness]

Well, for my audiophile needs, I know enough to be able to confidently recognize snake oil and real quality. I don't have a clue in the world of batteries so, with potential hazards, I guess I'll just get what people seem to be vouching for i.e. the AW P18650 -31 and the Pila.

 

[yifu]

It is against the rules to post sales links of any kind on here. But like i said, Panasonic does not make any protected cells at all. Either your seller is selling fakes (the biggest danger in li-on usage) or he just slapped on a PCB onto a genuine Panasonic OEM cell and if the quality of that PCB is bad, it would negate the benefits of a protected cell. Moreover, many cheaper protection circuits have very high resistance and will cut off at less than the 2C max, meaning that many high powered lights won't work at all or will have diminished output.

 

[witness]

Clearly not worth the risk. I obviously want the absolute most that I can get out of the H600.

 

[Changchung]

I dont buy renamed brands batteries, I use mines li-ion batt very carefully, and keep my eyes of them when charged checking temp and voltages, most of my lights had cutoff circuit, so, it cant be damage for over discharge.

My personal opinion is that I see no reason why pay up to $10 more for a battery renamed.


SFMI4UT

 

[Changchung]

It is against the rules to post sales links of any kind on here. But like i said, Panasonic does not make any protected cells at all. Either your seller is selling fakes (the biggest danger in li-on usage) or he just slapped on a PCB onto a genuine Panasonic OEM cell and if the quality of that PCB is bad, it would negate the benefits of a protected cell. Moreover, many cheaper protection circuits have very high resistance and will cut off at less than the 2C max, meaning that many high powered lights won't work at all or will have diminished output.

+1


SFMI4UT

 

[Colonel Sanders]

The undervoltage circuit in a light only protects your cell when it's in the light. The protection circuit on the cell (assuming it's a good unit) is on duty even when charging the cell. Just something to keep in mind.

I have seen battery temps get scorching hot on old (but quality) unprotected cells when charging. To the point that I could not pick them up by hand! And, I have seen unprotected cells go to 4.55v+ when charging! Very dangerous!!! No circuitry in a flashlight can help with this.

 

[jaross]

Sorry to bring up an old thread but: Is unprotected safe in my h600 MKII? I have heard that it is okay since I am only using one battery and the light has a cutoff but I am wanting to confirm because I plan on using it on the H1 setting for periods of half an hour straight.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Sorry to bring up an old thread but: Is unprotected safe in my h600 MKII? I have heard that it is okay since I am only using one battery and the light has a cutoff but I am wanting to confirm because I plan on using it on the H1 setting for periods of half an hour straight.

I use unprotected 14500s, 16340s and 18650s in single cell lights. You have to be more judicious in checking their voltages and charging them back up.

Most naked cells can be run down to 2.5v (Pannies) and 2.75 (LG, Samsung and Sanyo) but you need to get them charged back up quickly, if you dip that low.

Me? I try and not go below 3.5v, if at all possible, so I'm always checking voltages during and after use, to 'know' where I am and then charge them back up accordingly.

Chris

 

[samgab]

I'm personally quite happy using unprotected quality 18650's in my ZL light. I use an SC600 rather than an H600, but they're the same electronics.
But I look after my cells. The ZL cuts out safely at 2.7V, which is kind enough on the cells, though I never run them down that low.

I didn't see anywhere in the posts above a clarification about the "A" suffix on Panasonic's NCR18650.

• The original NCR18650 was rated at nominal 2900mAh (typical).
• Then they came out with a second version of the same thing, the NCR18650A, rated at 3100mAh (typical).
• And then the latest version, the NCR18650B, rated at ~3350-3400mAh (typical).

None of them have an electronic protection circuit in the state they come from Panasonic, and they aren't designed to be sold on a cell by cell basis. They're supposed to be purchased by battery pack manufacturers and put into packs along with battery management circuitry. But they do all have built-in internal protective devices: A PTC (positive temperature coefficient) physical protection device and a CID (current interrupt device) for safety. These are extremely effective and reliable at a single cell level (such as in the ZL H600 or SC600). This being the case, I don't feel the need of additional electronic protection, as there are already multiple levels of safety applied:

1. User, myself, actively monitoring the voltage levels and usage.
2. The flashlight has the electronic equivalent of the electronic protective devices included in Li-ion battery packs, under voltage/current protection.
3. The charger/s I use have similar safety features, over/under voltage protection, reverse polarity protection, etc.
4. The cells themselves have the final line of defense, the PTC and CID devices.

If other users choose to use cells that have another layer of protection is their choice, and there's no harm in it. I also have some protected AW cells (for certain multi-cell 18650 lights, and I use them in the ZL light too), but I don't feel it's an essential feature in a ZL H600.

Here is the Panasonic 18650 roadmap. You can see on it the 2900mAh NCR18650, the 3100mAh NCR18650A, and the 3400mAh NCR18650B: