Will an Incan Outthrow an LED

[fareast]

I am happily using my LED's every day now and I have always compared my new lights with my MC. Nowadays the MC is heavily in need of at least a new battery stick so the light coming OTF with the standard bulb is, well, it used to be a lot better, brighter and whiter... :mecry:

Still though, I have a few led lights which are rated at ~200, ~400 and ~600 lumens. The ~600 lumens is an M2XC4 Neutral and this is the only LED which now can outhrow my good ol' MC. I am however very impressed it took this much to outthrow a basically dead MC!!!

Now I am going to modify it with a little FiveMega magic. It's going to be an MC60 with a 6 C-cell 5000mAh 7.2V battery stick and FM's 2.5" ThrowMaster. A few parts I have already and some are going to be on it's way soon.

Now I just know this will make my MC get back on it's feet again, right? I am not the cleverest by a longshot by my gut tells me the incans will always (at this moment...) outthrow and LED (generalisation here!!!) just due to chemistry/physics alone. Phosphor dies compared to a wolfram/tungsten wire in a vacuum tube... Sure, you could add this, change that etc. etc. But if the hosts were comparable, wouldn't you say the same?

 

[Sgt. LED]

The revamped magcharger will win.

 

[Juggernaut]

I specialize in long throwing Incans, some of the stuff will make HIDs beg for mercy:devil:, LED don't even have the slightest chance:nana:.

 

[yellow]

thrower fans 🙄
when that bulky, extremely high powered incan thrower stops giving light after some 10-20 mins,
use the E01 in jeans back pocket to get home
😉


PS: do You really wonder that lights, not built to be throwers, dont offer the reach of a Mag in full focus?
🙄 🙄
How about a Minimag on full focus compared to that "near dead" charger set to flood?
Any question which will "throw" more distance?

 

[fareast]

Glad to see the confirmation!!! lovecpf


So I am thinking... Juggernaut... where do I know that name from? So I looked at your sig line and checked out some threads. I found it, I remember just 1 of your posts:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2565712&postcount=224

Like then, I am thinking now: words fail me when I look at your collection. :twothumbs

Yellow:

 

[Sgt. LED]

thrower fans 🙄
when that bulky, extremely high powered incan thrower stops giving light after some 10-20 mins,
use the E01 in jeans back pocket to get home
😉

That's a solid plan. :thumbsup: But can I substitute a little bigger light for the trip back? Like a Haiku......

 

[fareast]

PS: do You really wonder that lights, not built to be throwers, dont offer the reach of a Mag in full focus?
🙄 🙄
How about a Minimag on full focus compared to that "near dead" charger set to flood?
Any question which will "throw" more distance?

:thumbsup:True, just tried it and the MiniMag (2AAA) did outthrow the dead MC on full flood.

 

[LuxLuthor]

You guys know I am the #1 Incan fanboy Jockey. However, even "LED Jockey" member, yellow, 😉 missed the opportunity to set this question straight.

If you look up the threads on LED's using Aspheric lenses, you will see that they blow incands away with throw.

Now when you get into MaxaBeam HID & Ra's MaxaBlaster hand held spotlights, they (currently) trump these Aspheric LED setups.

 

[Juggernaut]

Glad to see the confirmation!!! lovecpf


So I am thinking... Juggernaut... where do I know that name from? So I looked at your sig line and checked out some threads. I found it, I remember just 1 of your posts:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2565712&postcount=224

Like then, I am thinking now: words fail me when I look at your collection. :twothumbs

Wow, it's been a long time since I've seen that picture😱, boy has my collection grow since then! The only light that is still competing with my current Generation is that mean one in the back row "The Sun" Even that huge 1000 watt light has been built into a backpack capable light and is no longer under driven😱! In around a week I hope to have a few project lights finished and I'll update that photo:thumbsup:.

LuxLuthor:
You guys know I am the #1 Incan fanboy Jockey. However, even "LED Jockey" member, yellow, 😉 missed the opportunity to set this question straight.

If you look up the threads on LED's using Aspheric lenses, you will see that they blow incands away with throw.

Now when you get into MaxaBeam HID & Ra's MaxaBlaster hand held spotlights, they (currently) trump these Aspheric LED setups.

I'll admit LuxLuthor that Aspheric LEDs have extreme throw that will easily beat out any Incan Mag Mod out there "I EDC one😗", but they still can't beat out true Long throw Incans. Even my very old "The Sun" can smother a DEFT by nearly 3 time fold, though it takes A LOT to do so (16 pounds!), True, you would have to be delusional to think you could make a similar sized Incan that could compete with the likes of the DEFT.

 

[fivemega]

It's going to be an MC60 with a 6 C-cell 5000mAh 7.2V battery stick and FM's 2.5" ThrowMaster.

Battery pack of 6 sub "C" will flash WA1160
You will need WA1111 (MC11) with 6 cell or WA1160 (MC60) with 5 cell pack.

 

[fareast]

I took a break (from reading LexLuthor's thread) to check up on this thread... that Ellie sure is a beast with a pretty name.

FM
Thanks for chiming in!No worries though, I'll do some reading up and get the correct parts. :thumbsup: But, I'll likely get samples of both bulbs. This baby has hot to shine again!

Juggernaut
I'll be looking forward to that. I just looked again and I am thinking; the only thing I can actually relate to is the tiny 2AAA MiniMag... I have one just like it. It's a sturdy old bugger, perfect for dark times. One reason why I like your lights is the fact they remind me of the old incan bike headlights here in Dutchieland.

secret dream: to carry a Polarion PH-50 as an EDC 🙂sigh🙂

 

[LuxLuthor]

I'll admit LuxLuthor that Aspheric LEDs have extreme throw that will easily beat out any Incan Mag Mod out there "I EDC one😗", but they still can't beat out true Long throw Incans. Even my very old "The Sun" can smother a DEFT by nearly 3 time fold, though it takes A LOT to do so (16 pounds!), True, you would have to be delusional to think you could make a similar sized Incan that could compete with the likes of the DEFT.

LOL! I can't sort out which light is which in that picture. What bulb is in The Sun? It would be interesting to walk down to object being lit that is 1000 yards away and see how much light is arriving on surfaces that far away with various lights. Part of the throw effect of DEFT is you don't have your vision of far away obscured from all the flood of typical incan/spotlights.

 

[ampdude]

All things being equal such as reflector size or lense type, the incan should out throw the LED because of greater surface brightness.

 

[Patriot]

I don't think that any sane person would ever argue against the decided throw advantage that some incans posses over LED but the better question might be, in what appliacation are we talking about?

In the category of pocket lights and those generally referred to as EDC-able, LED dominates the throw arena. If you include the MRV, A9, A10, DBS, Raptor and a few others with larger reflectors into this group, all of which still run on a pair of 123s or single 18650, they're still better throwers than some incans which are larger and producing more overall lumens.

About the only time incans commonly surpasses LED throwers is when they're outputing triple or more times the lumens of LED. Most stock incans drive their bulbs at or near specification where the surface brightness isn't much higher than that of LED. The real advantage is only clearly revealed when the surface brightness is increased through overdriving. For example to have any decided throw advantage to several of my EDC "throwers" I'd have to go to carrying something like the FM-11 in which the WA1111 bulb is driven very hard, limiting bulb life to apox. 10 hours.






My conclusion...

In limited applications such as carrying a light at work or just general EDC practices (this is a large percentage of us btw) the LED is the undisputed better thrower. Adding strength to the comparison, as Lux Luthor mentioned, LED has the aspheric option. At least two of the better known LED throw lights are offered from the manufacturer with an apheric head.

In an unlimited application the incan is the undisputed better thrower, especially when one of the unlimited factors is bulb overdriving. This often limits incan throw junkies to custom equipment.

 

[Juggernaut]

Juggernaut
I'll be looking forward to that. I just looked again and I am thinking; the only thing I can actually relate to is the tiny 2AAA MiniMag... I have one just like it. It's a sturdy old bugger, perfect for dark times.

Yah, the good old AAA Minimag. I still EDC that light to this very day "love the form factor" though I've modded it's output to about 34 lumens, not a lot, but way better then original!

LOL! I can't sort out which light is which in that picture. What bulb is in The Sun? It would be interesting to walk down to object being lit that is 1000 yards away and see how much light is arriving on surfaces that far away with various lights. Part of the throw effect of DEFT is you don't have your vision of far away obscured from all the flood of typical incan/spotlights.

The sun:

Was my first super light and even though I have built many lights after it, it still holds the honor as my favorite light:thumbsup:. Running an hour and 20 minuets at a bit over 5,000 lumens is good enough for me🙄! Like you said LuxLuthor the massive side spill from these lights really destroy long range perception🙁. On a few occasions I have placed the light down "pointing at something distant" and then walked away from the light to get a better view, this seems to work the best, though it is quite impractical:shakehead. With my A9 aspheric all I have to do is point and look to get long range identification:thumbsup:. Such lights like my Cardboard Hexagon Box Light "while being nearly 7 time duller😱" offer better long range illumination for the same reason that aspheric do "reduction of side spill". So in most circumstances if you want small hand held throwing power: LED aspheric are the way to go:twothumbs.

 

[Gunner12]

For similar output and size, the incan can probably get more throw due to the smaller emitting area.

 

[ampdude]

If you want NO sidespill such as with the aspherical LED setup, you can put an aspherical lense in front of an incan as well. It just better be made out of pyrex.

 

[fareast]

I am a bit humbled by all you "heavy hitters" posting replies here. :wave: It seems every post seems to toggle me into a search mode (no worries, I only use the google search...). What is that he is talking about, a 10.000W light???, gotta find more about it, then I see that maxabeam again; no movie or photo nonwithstanding, really does it any justice I think. One has to appreciate such light(s) personally. I have yet to. There's a good reason why I like that Alien vs. Predator flick... Once I got to handle a PH-40 though... 😀. Needless to say I was stunned. So seeing Patriot post here has got me opening some more tabs. I even think I saw one on CPFMP the other day. You my man, have a beautiful sigline.

 

[Juggernaut]

For similar output and size, the incan can probably get more throw due to the smaller emitting area.

The problem is battery power for the Incan takes up more room for the same runtimes.

If you want NO sidespill such as with the aspherical LED setup, you can put an aspherical lense in front of an incan as well. It just better be made out of pyrex.

Yes they do work except while 100% of the light from an LED goes forwards "when I mean forwards, I mean 90 degrees or more", and only 50% of the light from an Incan would be projected into the aspheric lens.

 

[ampdude]

I think it could project all of the incan light forward if designed correctly. If it was made just for incans and not for LED's.

I don't proclaim to be an expert, so can anyone tell me what the current surface brightness of incans is compared to the latest LED's? If it's less than 50% than incans would still win.

Of course I think HID's would beat both as an electrical arc could throw like crazy if engineered correctly with the perfect lense. I believe their surface brightness is the highest.