Will Sure Fire will ever produce a reg battery model?

Raven

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 16, 2002
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816
I've got a SF old style 9p, and I love it to death, but every time I turn it on, I feel this stabbing pain right through my wallet )

My dream flashlight would be a SF with an LED plus Alkaline battery modification. As it turns out, that pretty much describes the ARC does it not, so why wouldn't SF respond to this new market demand?

Raven
 
I think that once digital regulation gets into the product line, which sounds like it'll be pervasive, the thought is that this will have flexibility designed into it to allow dc-to-dc conversion giving users a variety of options with the same light. Options from Alkaline to Lithium to rechargeables in the same light. That's for voltage anyway, I don't know how any power delivery issues will be solved if there are any.

Others -- am I off-base here?
 
There are issues with high current draw HOLAs and alkalines. Alkalines' internal resistance is roughly five times that of lithium 123s. Assuming the output is regulated (to drive the lamp at its rated output) this amounts to roughly 1W of heat for the E2e running MN03 on 2 alkalines - i.e. 15-20% loss of capacity. The same thing will happen with the 5W luxeons since the MN03 is roughly 5W. To keep things in perspective the batteries in an M6 running MN21 will generate roughly 0.5 Watts of heat (total). Someone correct me if I am wrong.

For the lower output lamps it should be feasible. Any lamp rated at 3W or less should be OK when running with 2 alkalines.

Cheers.
 
Damned thermodynamics creeps yet again into an otherwise ideal world.
1. Can't win.
2. Can't break even.
3. Can't get out of the game.
 
But if ARC can do this, why can't Sure Fire???

I mean here you have an ARC that has a AA battery adaptor, that meets the same need as a SF (great light, small size), but at the same time let's cheapskates like myself use AA batteries.

Plus it's LED.

Raven
 
2AA would marginally power the very bottom end of the SureFire offerings; the KL1 and the MN01 if the batteries are real fresh. At the botom end, SureFire has the E1 which is a much smaller light than any 2AA flashlight. You are talking about an area of the market that SureFire is not targeting, IMHO. SureFire is not competing for price point and wall space in the local discount store. Price aside, it is tough to compete with the dependable and long shelf life of the 123 cells.

The 123 is much closer to being a "regular" battery now than it was when I bought my first SF at least 15 years ago and couldn't find a 123 anywhere in town, regardless of price!

- Don
 
I don't consider SF123As to be strange batteries. In fact, I don't use many Alk batteries. Mostly in remote controls so there are far more SF123As in my house then any other battery type.

I wouldn't want SureFire to waste time on Alk models or battery bodies when they should be working on the rechargeable batteries I want.

Al
 
Ok, it's just that I've read so many post talking about the ARC-alkaline torch, and I know that's considered a high end tactical light, that I was surprised SF never went after that market as well.

NP, I'm still learning, still asking questions )

Raven
 
I have the same inclination to want cheap power for Surefire's. I got it by buying a rechargeable 8nx, which works fantastically great for what it is and ignoring a can-o-worms issue of energy retension with the b90 batteries, it's cheap to run and extremely bright. In fact, it's small enough for me to stash in my back pocket but I'd certainly understand wanting something smaller and clippable like an e2e or Aviator (I want those can you tell?).

At roughly $3.60ea (Surefire's price) I still consider the 123's to be precious little things. In MY house the only thing that runs on a 123 is a certain very finicky Nikon camera. That's it. No kid's toys, no other cameras, no flashes, no bike lights, nothing else. And sometimes 123's are hard to find when driving around off the beaten path, so that's another motivation for having a product that can use something else. I did read someone's comment somewhere on this board saying "we can get them for $0.50," but I don't recall where I saw it and I was pretty skeptical. If it's anything down near there, then I'd sure be buying an M3 tonight and I'd simply fill the trunk of my car with 123's.
edit: And an M6

But this is sounding too wordy. Maybe I shouldn't grab the oatmeal stout and then "add reply" in that order ...
grin.gif
 
The unfortunate fact remains that regardless of regulation and no matter how clever the circuitry, the ability to have very bright small long burning lights is limited by current lamp efficiency and battery capacity.

Until there are breakthroughs or at least significant developments in either or both of those areas there are not likely to be major improvements in lights that we can either create or buy.

Please, someone tell me I'm wrong.

Brightnorm
 
Brightnorm your comments indicate to me that an ARC-LS-AA is not as bright as an SF Elite KL1 then? Other wise the ARC-LS-AA would be the no brainer decision, since it uses cheaper batteries.

Still learning...

Raven
 
Originally posted by Raven:
Brightnorm your comments indicate to me that an ARC-LS-AA is not as bright as an SF Elite KL1 then? Other wise the ARC-LS-AA would be the no brainer decision, since it uses cheaper batteries.

Still learning...

Raven
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Raven,

There are enough versions/generations/ permutations of the ARCs to make your head spin!
I like gen 1 rev 2 (I think, I can no longer keep them straight). Anyway, I EDC a 2AA (lithiums) 400ma "hybrid" (don't ask!). It's not quite as bright as either of my two disturbingly purple-beamed KL1's, but has a broad lovely white beam, that I actually prefer. My ARC 500ma is brighter than the KL1, but it burns very hot and fast. The great advantage of the Surefire (KL1 and KL3)is a 4hr fully regulated burn.

OTOH, my ARC 2AA doesn't fall too far behind the KL1, and after 4hrs pulls ahead and at 6hrs is still just about as bright as a fresh Reactor or Inretech.

Also, I can get my ARC 2AA into a slightly modified Mag AAA nylon holster for a much sleeker carry than the E2e/KL1.

It's all a matter of personal preference. When Doug Speck's UBH (universal battery holder) comes out you'll be able to pop a KL1 (or KL3 + Sandwich Shop adapter) on the end for a 6 hr regulated run in a remarkably small and light body.

There are so many choices, and the field is constantly advancing, but I have yet to see any real "breakthroughs".

Brightnorm
 
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