Will there be competition in lithium AA battery?

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BuddTX

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Anyone have any idea if Duracell or Rayovac or GE/Sanyo or anyone else will come out with Lithium AA batteries?

I bet we would see prices drop if that were to happen!
 
I was just wondering the same thing the other day when I bought a pack of Energizer Lithiums. I bet Ray-O-Vac would sell for considerably less. I hope it happens.
 
I remember reading something about that as well. I believe Energizer has a patent on the chemistry of their lith AA cells.
 
I know Energizer owns the patent on the Lithium cell type used for the AA's and I believe for the newer AAA's. (Anyone seen them yet?). I've read the patent, it's available online somewhere.

If I recall correctly, it is a Lithium Salt cell that has been patented.

Anyone else coming out with a similar cell would have to change the formula significantly enough to allow that, and that MIGHT change the form factor.

Bill
 
Re: Will there be competition in lithium AA batter

I know it was posted because I posted it. And maybe others did, as well. There is nothing to keep a major company from making a 3 V cell in the form of 2 AAs in series the long way. And we already have one side by side, but not as a drop-in replacement. I see no reason equipment could not be design to accept this pack or 2 AAs. And ironically, Energizer uses 2 of their 1.5 V AA cells inside this package. Other makers, of course, use two 3 V AA size cells in parallel.
 
Re: Will there be competition in lithium AA batter

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the "standard" lithium chemistry produced more than 1.5V per cell - 2 point something comes to mind.
 
Re: Will there be competition in lithium AA batter

As with most things, it's only a matter of time. Eventually that patent, if true, will expire, and many manufacturers will be making these batteries. Otherwise I believe it would be a contradiction in law regarding monopolies.
 
Re: Will there be competition in lithium AA batter

The patent if true? You don't believe the US Patent and Trademark Office uspto.gov?

What laws regarding monoplies are being broken? What laws remain? Most of the baby Bells from the break-up of AT&T have recombined. We're down to just a handfull of oil companies.

now steping down off soapbox.
 
Re: Will there be competition in lithium AA batter

I think the patent cited in that other thread is for some kind of improvement to the basic cell. Lithium 1.5 volt cells have been around since the early 1990's or late 80's, and that patent was from the late 90's.
 
Re: Will there be competition in lithium AA batter

[ QUOTE ]
gwbaltzell said:
The patent if true? You don't believe the US Patent and Trademark Office uspto.gov?

[/ QUOTE ]

You apparently are assuming that I don't believe. My statement should not have indicated either that I believe or that I disbelieve. I simply stated "if true" because I don't know, and don't assume that the last guy who posted is accurate until I find out for myself. As far as the monopolies, this is a very grey area or there wouldn't be so many lawsuits. The government itself sued Bill Gates didn't they. He didn't even break a law.
 
Re: Will there be competition in lithium AA batter

Here's some info. yet again.
Check it out for yourself: Patent # 5,691,083

some key points:"Lithium/iron disulfide cells typically have an open circuit voltage (OCV) of about 1.8 which may be considered to be too high for some electronic applications. It is generally desirable to lower the OCV to less than 1.75 volts, and preferably to about 1.72 volts or less to achieve wider acceptance of such cells. "
Inventors: Bolster; Mary Elizabeth (Bay Village, OH) Assignee: Eveready Battery Company, Inc. (St. Louis, MO) Appl. No.: 487370 Filed: June 7, 1995

Almost all patents are improvements on other patents.
Yes, someone could find a different chemical reaction that achives the right voltage level. But this particular one would have to be licensed by Energizer (Eveready).
Otherwise no lithiums of this voltage from anyone else for another 3+ years (unless the time period's been changed like it was on copyright).
 
Re: Will there be competition in lithium AA batter

So, why is there a lot of 123a lithium batteries, by different manufactures, but only 1 AA brand?
 
Re: Will there be competition in lithium AA batter

3 volt vs. 1.5 volt
Most common lithium chemistries that have been known a long time produce 3 volts. The secret was taming the chemistry to get near the 1.5 volt of carbon-zinc and alkaline chemistries and still provide the high current and other characteristics we expect. 123 cells are 3 volts! They are not a battery made of of multiple cells. The common 9 volt battery can be made with six 1.5 volt cells or three 3 volt lithium cells.

This is the proper usage of the terms cell and battery. Yes, I will slip sometimes and say battery when I mean cell. The term battery should really only apply to something made from multiple cells. Batteries always come as even multiples of their underlaying cell voltage. Even a 510 V strobe battery is made of 340 cells! In rechargeables we have 1.2 V for nickel based and 2.1 V for lead based. The 0.1 V is often ignored but your car battery is really 12.6 V.

Edit: And just to repeat myself: I know of no reason a major manufacturer could not make a 3 V cell in the form of 2 AA cells the long way as a drop in replacement.
 
Re: Will there be competition in lithium AA batter

Beside all legal issues:

A very knowledgeable person told me that the manufacturing cost of the Li-Fe cells are actually about the same as for good alaklines. And we can be shure that also the competition knows that. That means that when they hit the market they have to be lower priced than Engerizer or offer a superiour cell (which I think is almost impossible). So they just cannot sell a copy for the same price as Energizer does now.

gwbaltzell: I like you expression 'taming the chemistry' .-) to give somewhat 1.5V. This should make it clear even for layman (I will use it outside CPF!).
 
Re: Will there be competition in lithium AA batter

i've been using 3V AAs for a while in my minimags. rip a duracell CRV3 apart. you get 2 3V AAs. I don't know about other manufacturers. just Duracell. i think energizer should come out with 1.5 (1.7) lithium C and D cells. that would rock!
 
Re: Will there be competition in lithium AA batter

Hi Soloco,

I maybe able to use that CRV3 in the modded Dorcy 1AA. Are they expensive and where can you buy them in bulk for discount?

Henry
 
Re: Will there be competition in lithium AA batter

[ QUOTE ]
soloco said:
i think energizer should ome out with 1.5 (1.7) lithium C and D cells. that would rock!

[/ QUOTE ]

My brother in law (who is in the electronics industry) told me that AA cells are about 70% of the whole market.
They do not even do modern alkalines in C and D form factor (that is why C and D cells have a much worse high load behaviour).
BTW, I do have lots of 3V and 3.6V lithium D-cells (of the high current variarity) and used to use them in D-cell flashlights. Of course I had to change the bulb, which is no big issue.
 
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