Wish car body with Tesla Electric chassis

orbital

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
3,376
Location
WI
+

Ford Escort Mk1,,,, all the juice to the rear wheels.

...something like this, forward to 9min. to see the starting point .

 

raggie33

*the raggedier*
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Messages
11,939
im a guy who rebuilt a few engines replaced trannys done pretty much all i.c.e work .eletric is the future so much simpler..less moving parts. and soon as they put a eletric motor in each wheel hub. imagine the traction control they can acchive
 

knucklegary

Flashlight Enthusiast
CPF Supporter
Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Messages
3,032
Location
White Sand Bch
I see these Tesla's shoot by me on the highways. Yes, they're plenty fast, and MSRP cost plenty as well..
But nobody mentions how much it cost to charge these electric cars
 

idleprocess

Flashaholic
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
6,573
Location
dfw.tx.us
But nobody mentions how much it cost to charge these electric cars
If you're a homeowner or can install a dedicated charger that boils down to what you pay for electricity per kWH. I pay ~$0.11 / kWH so a 75 kWHr Tesla would run $8.25 to 'fill up', and assuming I hit claimed range of 334 miles (224 Wh/mi) cost all of $0.0247 per mile. There's some cost to amortize with the charger + installation of course, but that's apt to be <$1000 and thus not move the needle significantly.

Conversely, my daily driver gets perhaps 25 MPG on 93 octane, which at something like $3.10/gallon runs me about $0.124 per mile to run.

Of course if you can't arrange for charging at retail electric rates then it can get considerably more expensive. Short of grandfathered Tesla owners that get free supercharging you're going to be paying considerably more than the retail cost of electricity for most public charging - especially fast charging.
 

LEDphile

Enlightened
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
215
If you're a homeowner or can install a dedicated charger that boils down to what you pay for electricity per kWH. I pay ~$0.11 / kWH so a 75 kWHr Tesla would run $8.25 to 'fill up', and assuming I hit claimed range of 334 miles (224 Wh/mi) cost all of $0.0247 per mile. There's some cost to amortize with the charger + installation of course, but that's apt to be <$1000 and thus not move the needle significantly.

Conversely, my daily driver gets perhaps 25 MPG on 93 octane, which at something like $3.10/gallon runs me about $0.124 per mile to run.

Of course if you can't arrange for charging at retail electric rates then it can get considerably more expensive. Short of grandfathered Tesla owners that get free supercharging you're going to be paying considerably more than the retail cost of electricity for most public charging - especially fast charging.
It's also worth considering that electric rates vary, and in some of the higher-cost areas, there was a point in time a couple years back when it was cheaper to run a plug-in hybrid purely on gasoline than to plug it in (a combination of low gasoline prices and high electricity prices). Using data from the EIA, the cost of electricity is about $0.22 kWh in New England, California, and New York, but closer to 14 cents/kWh US average and lower than that in most of the US. That puts the Tesla at closer to 5 cents/mile for fuel. At $3.40/gal (US average gasoline price for the same time as that electricity cost), you'd need to be at 68 mpg to hit the same cost per mile as the Tesla. But back when gasoline was closer to $2/gal, the break-even was 40 mpg, which is achievable in a modern hybrid.

Of course, for extra complexity on the calculations, there's also the retail charger markups and the lower than average cost of charging from a residential solar array.
 

jtr1962

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
6,748
Location
Flushing, NY
It's also worth considering that electric rates vary, and in some of the higher-cost areas, there was a point in time a couple years back when it was cheaper to run a plug-in hybrid purely on gasoline than to plug it in (a combination of low gasoline prices and high electricity prices). Using data from the EIA, the cost of electricity is about $0.22 kWh in New England, California, and New York, but closer to 14 cents/kWh US average and lower than that in most of the US. That puts the Tesla at closer to 5 cents/mile for fuel. At $3.40/gal (US average gasoline price for the same time as that electricity cost), you'd need to be at 68 mpg to hit the same cost per mile as the Tesla. But back when gasoline was closer to $2/gal, the break-even was 40 mpg, which is achievable in a modern hybrid.

Of course, for extra complexity on the calculations, there's also the retail charger markups and the lower than average cost of charging from a residential solar array.
There are several other factors to consider as well:

1) Far fewer things to break in an electric drivetrain, so you'll save quite a bit on maintenance over the life of the vehicle. You'll also need to call AAA less for the same reason.
2) If you charge at home, which is what people will do most of the time unless they're on a long trip, you're also saving time going to gas stations. Everyone's time has a different value, but that factors into the equation.
3) If you have solar panels, you're essentially filling up your car for free. In fact, solar panels and electric cars make a great combo.
4) Although it's not the case right now, eventually thanks to mass production the purchase cost of electric cars will be less than equivalent gas cars, so that will be another savings.

Another factor worth mentioning, while discussing cost per mile, is that if we moved away from boxes to more streamlined vehicles, along with low rolling resistance tires, we can decrease cost per mile by a factor of 3 to 5, and increase range for any given size battery by that same factor. The automotive industry seemingly forgot the lesson it learned with streamlining beginning in the 1930s. It's time to start reapplying those lessons.
 
Last edited:

idleprocess

Flashaholic
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
6,573
Location
dfw.tx.us
It's also worth considering [...]
There are several other factors [...]
A back-of-the-napkin exercise using example data I had immediately available.

Electric drive using retail electricity will tend to be at parity or cheaper than gasoline was my takeaway, however a more thorough analysis of CAPEX + OPEX is needed to come to a more decisive answer to which has lower TCO. I do not however wish to engage in this sort of argument as I feel it will badly derail the thread.
 

knucklegary

Flashlight Enthusiast
CPF Supporter
Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Messages
3,032
Location
White Sand Bch
Idle, last time NorCal folks gassed up at Chevron Supreme cost $5.10 gal.. and average .24 kWH during off peak hours.

Unfortunately for all CA residents our current state legislature has just okayed a 9% power rate hike
 

idleprocess

Flashaholic
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
6,573
Location
dfw.tx.us
Idle, last time NorCal folks gassed up at Chevron Supreme cost $5.10 gal.. and average .24 kWH during off peak hours.

Unfortunately for all CA residents our current state legislature has just okayed a 9% power rate hike
Both more expensive in NorCal vs DFW for a nominal 25MPG vehicle.

Using some first results Gas Buddy data - Dallas for DFW, arbitrarily selected Redding for NorCal - and a HP (high performance) / econo car comparison...
1643771088338.png

EDIT: and that Wh/M column label is supposed to be KWh/M because that's how the math works.

The econo car case vs our examplar Tesla Model 3 is far less compelling than the HP car. 25 MPG is based on what I can realize in the WRX in more normal times commuting as opposed to last ~22 months of mostly short trips (curiously the EV would really shine in this scenario).

The cost/fill vs cost/charge are more of a thought experiment on what it costs you per billing increment but otherwise aren't neatly comparable since you'll generally get more miles from a full tank of gas vs a full charge.

Otherwise I'm all out of napkin.
 

raggie33

*the raggedier*
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Messages
11,939
we had a guy on this forum who charged his ev with the solar from this guy .if i recall he was called north cal dave but its been a while
 

raggie33

*the raggedier*
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Messages
11,939
ps we make eletricty here in the usa. not i the middle east some where
 

jabe1

Flashlight Enthusiast
CPF Supporter
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
2,870
Location
Cleveland,Oh
A model 3 performance chassis and drivetrain under a 1973 Fiat 124 sport coupe body; or a BMW 3.0csi body.
Maybe a P100d chassis under a ‘68 Malibu wagon.
 

alpg88

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
4,182
i see this whole idea as a vandalism. why would you destroy classic cars, they are valuable for what they are. You gut them to install teslas drivetrain, you will neither have a tesla nor a classic car that worth anything.
 

jtr1962

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
6,748
Location
Flushing, NY
i see this whole idea as a vandalism. why would you destroy classic cars, they are valuable for what they are. You gut them to install teslas drivetrain, you will neither have a tesla nor a classic car that worth anything.
Three reason I can think of offhand:

1) It's hard and getting harder to find parts for older cars. My brother has several 1960s cars as a hobby. He grabs any parts which commonly break because he may never be able to get them again down the road. Some companies make aftermarket parts, but not for every type of older car.

2) Reliability. One common theme with older cars is how hard it is to keep them running. Even in their prime, many were flaky. So replace the old, problematic drivetrain with an electric one.

3) Eventually the time will come when gasoline is either not available at all, or costs a fortune. At that point these unconverted older cars will just be static museum pieces.

That said, there are less drastic conversions than putting an old car body on a Tesla chassis. You can electrify older cars while keeping most of them intact, including most of the chassis.
 

alpg88

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
4,182
Three reason I can think of offhand:

1) It's hard and getting harder to find parts for older cars. My brother has several 1960s cars as a hobby. He grabs any parts which commonly break because he may never be able to get them again down the road. Some companies make aftermarket parts, but not for every type of older car.

2) Reliability. One common theme with older cars is how hard it is to keep them running. Even in their prime, many were flaky. So replace the old, problematic drivetrain with an electric one.

3) Eventually the time will come when gasoline is either not available at all, or costs a fortune. At that point these unconverted older cars will just be static museum pieces.

That said, there are less drastic conversions than putting an old car body on a Tesla chassis. You can electrify older cars while keeping most of them intact, including most of the chassis.

Those are 3 ways to destroy a classic car, not make it better. not to mention it will cost tens of thousands at very least to do such conversion.
I'm a part owner of a body\repair shop, for about 2 decades. so far i have seen only handful of any projects finished and done right, the other 80% never finish them, another 10% -12% finish, but the end result is not only does not work right but often is outright dangerous.
 
Top