Wizard / Wizard Pro. Multi-flashlights.

clemence

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Wizard, Prime, and Partner use rivet crimping method to fasten the DTP MCPCB to the base. Not just the optics pressure when the bezel tightened. For Wizard and Prime this is a very effective method as bolts would be too big to fit beneath the already small 20mm optics. Wizard's bezel also only press fitted. So the DTP MCPCB is secured to stick to the base even if the bezel is failed or the optics broken. A nice design I only see in AT.

As long as AT uses premium thermal grease, the delta temp would be small. My guess is around 10C between the solder point and the back of the base (hottest flat area of the headlamp just behind the lens, below the button). Wizard has a very thin metal on it. Too hot to touch is usually 60-65C for most people, while beyond 70C will usually burns thin skin. Thick skinned people takes more time (Wondering if Jim Carrey would stay the longest). A simple K type thermocouple needle point can be used for a simple measurement.

The limit of XHP50 emitter is 150C at junction temp. Cree's test on XHP50 at maximum rated drive current (3000mA) only use 85C (http://cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/...Lamp/XLamp-Application-Notes/LM80_Results.pdf), because sustained maximum drive current at 150C Tj would shorten the LED life close to an incandescent bulb life. With Tj at 85C, the temp at solder point (Tsp) would be 63C (www.pct.cree.com). Assuming the 10C delta temp then you should measure 53C at the back base. At this heat, the emitter would still give you 29.900 hours until the emitter brightness reduced to 90%.
If each night we use the max. brightness for one hour until the battery depleted, then you can still have the 90% as bright as new headlamp for 3,4 years - not much a of concern, you'll get a new one before this, just like most of us :rolleyes:.

The bottleneck of Wizards is the threadlocker used to ensure water tightness at the thread closer to the head. Wizard due to its design can only use one O-ring at the thread connecting the battery tube and the head, that's why the threadlocker comes into use. Replacing the threadlocker with premium processor thermal paste will greatly reduce the delta temp across the whole headlamp body - lower Tj.
Even the OEM Nyogel 760G performs better than the threadlocker, at the expense of compromising the waterproofness.
 

scs

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Thanks for the insights, clemence. Have always wondered what's really in AT lights and how they're really constructed. Wondering if you have photos of some AT lights taken apart that you can post.
 

CampingMaster

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Received mine today. Everything is working great with 10A cell.

It took 25 days to arrive in Montreal from China with airmail shipping.
Paid for one Wizard Pro v3 XHP50 friday at 1 pm and received it today Tuesday = 48 hours. Paid 87.40$USD + 15% Canadian taxes + free shipping + exchange ~ 33%.

I live in Canada and the Wizard Pro was sent to me from the Canada office.
 

clemence

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Thanks for the insights, clemence. Have always wondered what's really in AT lights and how they're really constructed. Wondering if you have photos of some AT lights taken apart that you can post.

I can only send you the picture of my current Prime XP-L. I did the mod for one of my client's Wizard. Removing the bezel in Wizard without special tools is something tricky. Until I create a proper device, I don't think I'll do it the same way as I did.
In my opinion, whatever versions of Prime and Wizard are two most versatile EDC products from Armytek. Especially for daily use. With little modifications you can use both for varrrrrrious many uses and combos.
 

scs

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Anyone bothered by the state indicator (blinking button)? It can be turned off, but only when the light is off or on in the firefly group. It remains on in the Main and turbo group no matter what. I wish it could be turned off in those groups as well.
 

gyzmo2002

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No, it does not bother me. Especialy as we had it on the head. We do not see it.

Armytek could add this remove function in the future UI though.
 

clemence

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Anyone bothered by the state indicator (blinking button)? It can be turned off, but only when the light is off or on in the firefly group. It remains on in the Main and turbo group no matter what. I wish it could be turned off in those groups as well.

Did you mean the blinking at the switch button while the headlamp is OFF or ON?
My Wizard3 XPL switch indicator can be turned completely off/on while the headlamp is in OFF state AND in firefly mode.
In my case the procedure is like this:
- Loosen the tail cap - Press and then keep pressing the button while you tighten the tail cap back until the button turned red - As soon as its red, loosen it back - Release the button - tighten the tail cap back.
It's the procedure to make the switch indicator ON / OFF.
The indicator will STILL lit for several first seconds in the firefly mode even if you turn it OFF.

In Main/Max mode I don't see any disturbance of this indicator blinking since the main light will lights up the surrounding much brighter than the switch.
 

clemence

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No, it does not bother me. Especialy as we had it on the head. We do not see it.

Armytek could add this remove function in the future UI though.

In some application it bugs me. I'm a right handed person, in very close up works the shadow often annoy me. I usually use the headlamp with the lens at my left side. That way the button is right above my left eye. The constant green blinks distract me most of the time, especially when I wear my reading glasses.
This is one of the downside of many off-center headlamp design. The black cloth tape do the tricks nicely without losing the indicator feature.
 

gyzmo2002

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Did you mean the blinking at the switch button while the headlamp is OFF or ON?
My Wizard3 XPL switch indicator can be turned completely off/on while the headlamp is in OFF state AND in firefly mode.
In my case the procedure is like this:
- Loosen the tail cap - Press and then keep pressing the button while you tighten the tail cap back until the button turned red - As soon as its red, loosen it back - Release the button - tighten the tail cap back.
It's the procedure to make the switch indicator ON / OFF.
The indicator will STILL lit for several first seconds in the firefly mode even if you turn it OFF.

In Main/Max mode I don't see any disturbance of this indicator blinking since the main light will lights up the surrounding much brighter than the switch.

It is the same procedure with the Wizard Pro XHP. I think he would want to disabled the flashing led in the others modes too.
 

Tachead

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The concern is PID doesn't ramp it down enough. It reached 140 degrees F and stayed there for a good minute before lowering it and staying at 130.

Difference between 40 and 200 lumens should be pretty dang obvious. Both visual tests and lux meter measurements point to M1 being around 100, instead of 40. Once again, there's actually a post in another thread with similar findings. That 40 lumen is very useful for closeup work and reading. 100 can be too much. Its absence can be a deal breaker.

Your concerns are unfounded imo.

Components in most LED lights are rated to at least 80C(176F) by their manufactures. This includes electronics, LEDs, exc. The limiting factor is actually the lithium ion cells used to power them which are generally only rated to 60C(140F) max continuous operating temperature.

Extreme heat generation is normal with high output lights using our current technology. Hopefully in the future technology will advance and allow cooler operating temperatures but, with the tech we have now it is just going to happen with a light weight light, with minimal heatsinking, when it is driven to high output levels.

From your testing, it looks like Armytek has set the PID exactly where they should have to allow maximum performance while staying within the safe temperature limits outlined by cell manufactures. It looks like the PID kicks in right at the max cell temperature threshold of 60C and then starts lowering it. It should be noted also that just because the body/head of the light is at 60C doesnt mean the cell is. Testing, with other light models, has shown that the cells generally run at much cooler temps then the body in most uses and it would take extremely long runtimes to allow the cells to get to the body temperature if ever. You can test this by quickly removing the cell from your light and using an infrared temperature gun to check its max temp in relation to the body of the light after running the light at max output for a period of time. Another thing to note is that most protected 18650 cells(in this case) have overtemperature protection that will trip should the cell get too hot anyway before a dangerous condition can occur.

With a high output light like this I think using a high quality protected cell with a high enough max continuous amperage rating(10amps imo) is a good idea if you plan to use the higher outputs for extended periods of time. Protected cells using the Panasonic/Sanyo NCR3500GA are a good choice imo. Ensure that the cell is kept in good condition and is replaced when necessary and the PID should do the rest of the work. Beyond that, you will just have to use the lower output levels if the temperature makes you uncomfortable.
 

Boro

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Dec 19, 2011
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I just received my Wizard Pro XPH50 warm yesterday. After using it for 2 days I am confident in saying it is my favorite flashlight ever. I first go tinto flashlights hardcore in 2007 and have owned multiple zebralight headlights, on and off the foursevens bandwagon(when they still offered neutral tint options) olights, thrunite, fenix you name it. I'm truly amazed with this flashlight. I cannot believe nobody is talking about it... There is literally no talk ANYWHERE on this light. What is the purpose of this forum if not to discuss awesome lights?? The tint is absolutely perfect. Not neutral yet not quite warm. I would estimate 3500k. The brightness is astonishing yet still usable as a headlight(not blinding coming off your head). I know Armytek has had problems in the past, but come on guys if there is a light this good out there it should be page one. I know there are a lot of fans out there too because this light is out of stock everywhere. Good luck getting one!
+1 The tint, output and beam pattern are outstanding.
 

scs

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Your concerns are unfounded imo.

Components in most LED lights are rated to at least 80C(176F) by their manufactures. This includes electronics, LEDs, exc. The limiting factor is actually the lithium ion cells used to power them which are generally only rated to 60C(140F) max continuous operating temperature.

Extreme heat generation is normal with high output lights using our current technology. Hopefully in the future technology will advance and allow cooler operating temperatures but, with the tech we have now it is just going to happen with a light weight light, with minimal heatsinking, when it is driven to high output levels.

From your testing, it looks like Armytek has set the PID exactly where they should have to allow maximum performance while staying within the safe temperature limits outlined by cell manufactures. It looks like the PID kicks in right at the max cell temperature threshold of 60C and then starts lowering it. It should be noted also that just because the body/head of the light is at 60C doesnt mean the cell is. Testing, with other light models, has shown that the cells generally run at much cooler temps then the body in most uses and it would take extremely long runtimes to allow the cells to get to the body temperature if ever. You can test this by quickly removing the cell from your light and using an infrared temperature gun to check its max temp in relation to the body of the light after running the light at max output for a period of time. Another thing to note is that most protected 18650 cells(in this case) have overtemperature protection that will trip should the cell get too hot anyway before a dangerous condition can occur.

With a high output light like this I think using a high quality protected cell with a high enough max continuous amperage rating(10amps imo) is a good idea if you plan to use the higher outputs for extended periods of time. Protected cells using the Panasonic/Sanyo NCR3500GA are a good choice imo. Ensure that the cell is kept in good condition and is replaced when necessary and the PID should do the rest of the work. Beyond that, you will just have to use the lower output levels if the temperature makes you uncomfortable.

They're not concerns, but complaints. What good is PID if despite it the light remains too hot to wear or touch.
 

Tachead

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They're not concerns, but complaints. What good is PID if despite it the light remains too hot to wear or touch.

PID is designed to keep the light at a safe operating temperature while offering the max possible output. You cant have your cake and eat it too man. This is one of the most powerful stock single 18650 lights on the market and with that comes heat, there is no way around it with current technology in a package this size. If you want the high output then the heat comes with it. If they set the PID more conservatively then you would get less output. Everyone has different heat tolerances and they give you plenty of lower output modes if you want the light to remain cooler. The light sits in a silicone holder(resistant to 500F) and doesnt touch you anyway so I dont see why the heat should be a big issue. But, as I said, if it is then just use a lower output mode. Otherwise you will just have to wait until LED technology advances further to allow for cooler operating temperatures at these output levels.

Maybe Armytek can look at allowing the end user to adjust the PID temperature target value like Zebralight has with future lights. Then you can set it more aggressively if you desire but, keep in mind it is a trade off for output.
 
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scs

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PID is designed to keep the light at a safe operating temperature while offering the max possible output. You cant have your cake and eat it too man. This is one of the most powerful stock single 18650 lights on the market and with that comes heat, there is no way around it with current technology in a package this size. If you want the high output then the heat comes with it. If they set the PID more conservatively then you would get less output. Everyone has different heat tolerances and they give you plenty of lower output modes if you want the light to remain cooler. The light sits in a silicone holder(resistant to 500F) and doesnt touch you anyway so I dont see why the heat should be a big issue. But, as I said, if it is then just use a lower output mode. Otherwise you will just have to wait until LED technology advances further to allow for cooler operating temperatures at these output levels.

Maybe Armytek can look at allowing the end user to adjust the PID temperature target value like Zebralight has with future lights. Then you can set it more aggressively if you desire but, keep in mind it is a trade off for output.

Thanks. I think most of us already know that.
 

ArmyTek

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Berlin, Germany
PID is designed to keep the light at a safe operating temperature while offering the max possible output. You cant have your cake and eat it too man. This is one of the most powerful stock single 18650 lights on the market and with that comes heat, there is no way around it with current technology in a package this size. If you want the high output then the heat comes with it. If they set the PID more conservatively then you would get less output. Everyone has different heat tolerances and they give you plenty of lower output modes if you want the light to remain cooler. The light sits in a silicone holder(resistant to 500F) and doesnt touch you anyway so I dont see why the heat should be a big issue. But, as I said, if it is then just use a lower output mode. Otherwise you will just have to wait until LED technology advances further to allow for cooler operating temperatures at these output levels.

Maybe Armytek can look at allowing the end user to adjust the PID temperature target value like Zebralight has with future lights. Then you can set it more aggressively if you desire but, keep in mind it is a trade off for output.

We thought about this feature earlier but came to conclusion that it would be unsafe for users.
If someone decides to use the flashlight on high temperature, he/she will suffer burns.
 

Tachead

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We thought about this feature earlier but came to conclusion that it would be unsafe for users.
If someone decides to use the flashlight on high temperature, he/she will suffer burns.
You could set a high temperature limit though, only letting the user turn the PID temperature target value down from the factory setting. What Zebralight did was allowed the user to adjust the temp by 5C in 1C increments and also gave a reset to factory settings command. I personally would have liked to see unlimited control of the PID but, with a max factory limit so it is still safe for your average user.
 
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SubLGT

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Hi ArmyTek.
Can you share some info about the difference between Wizard Pro V2 and Wizard Pro V3?
I notice a different LED, are there any differences in software (firmware) as well?...

I recently received my Wizard Pro V3 XP-L. The owner's manual was included in the box, but was for a V2 XM-L2.

According to the manual, V2 included "voltage indication" in the Special Modes group, along with strobe and beacon. In my V3, "voltage indication" is no longer available as a special mode.

V2 did not allow auto-memorization of strobe and beacon, according to the V2 manual. But in my V3, strobe and beacon can be memorized.

So far, after a full days use, my new Wizard has had zero electronic glitches. And the warm XP-L emitter has an excellent tint, with just a hint of yellow and no perceivable green
 
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