It's best to avoid terms like "neutral", "outdoor", "daylight", or "cool" when it comes to these things and use actual K numbers because the terms mean different things depending on what you're talking about. FWIW the sunny/sunlight white balance on my digital camera is actually set at around 5200K.
ZebraLight H502 XM-L
- Thread starter JA(me)S
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It depends on a persons point of view, but if you are looking for an all round light, you want something in the middle. Neither full flood light, nor super thrower. These lights are great for certain purposes, but if you want the light to be useable in all normal situations, it needs to be something from the middle.
(I guess you mixed your links (that link goes to the same chart you included as an image).)
I am not fully sure what you are trying to say, but I'll ad one link and quote from NASA (emphasis mine):
NASA said:
In other words, the CCT of sunlight (without varying effects of atmosphere) is 5780K.
edit: Sorry, the links were not mixed.
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Type in "temperature of the sun" in Google! Try it!
Well, my point was that just because a person wants to know what the effective range of a light is doesn't automatically mean they need something other than a floodlamp
. As long as a light does what you want that's all that matters. The poster was just trying to asses the range of the light to make that decision. Personally, my definition of all around has nothing to do with longer throw at all. My needs are general, even lighting with no hotspots surrounded by useless fill. If I can get a flood lamp that also has enough power (with decent runtime) so I can see well within 30' or so it's the perfect all around light for me. ron
Bolster
Flashlight Enthusiast
Since ZL is following the marketing strategy of "a different light for every need," maybe they should consider making a 60-degree full flood. Would have some of the advantage of a full flood, and a little reach as well. (For comparison, 60 degrees is the beam spread of the SF Minimus--I think?--80 degrees on the H501, and 120 for the H502.)
Then folks buying a full-flood H502 wouldn't have to worry so much they were getting insufficient reach for their needs.
Then folks buying a full-flood H502 wouldn't have to worry so much they were getting insufficient reach for their needs.
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Warm being from incandescent [thermal] radiation. Cree uses the melting point of tungsten as their upper limit for warm, 3700K.
Philips uses 3500K-4500K as neutral. 5000K is the warmer end of cool-white.
Excellent. Here's hoping it's the XM-l S6 90-CRI but would be happy with a T3
Well said. This color temp thing is purely subjective when using terms such as warm, neutral and cool.... one persons neutral is anothers cool is anothers warm. High CRI and color temp are separate measures but have been somewhat correlated in the past (High CRI emitters have traditionally been "warmer"). Zebralight is doing great by providing multiple options.
The regular H502 is providing the highest output with the Cree XML with a "cool white temperature", 6300K, and relatively low CRI (CRI 65). The D version will provide a High CRI option (85 CRI) with a "cooler/neutral temperature", 5000K. The C version will provide a High CRI option (85 CRI) at a "warmer temperature", 4000K. The W version will provide a Good CRI Option (75 CRI), with a "warmer/neutral temperature", 4200K. The C and D versions are using the Phillips Rebel, while the W and regular versions are using the Cree XML. Reference the Zebralight Compare All Models for further specs (including max lumens): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...authkey=CNqP6KIC&hl=en&authkey=CNqP6KIC#gid=0.
I hope that makes sense, if it doesn't do some searching on the forum and it will, there are some great threads explaining color temps, CRI, etc. (I don't think we want this thread to derail into a CRI/Color Temp battle/discussion, but rather stay on topic of this awesome H502 and its many options). There isn't a best emitter/version, it's personal preference IMO.
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I know that's what is in the spreadsheet but I read into the response that Outdoorsman5 got from Zebralight is that they are waiting for other W LED's. Unless they've run out of the W LED's they currently use in the HL600w, I'm hoping that it will be a warm white or better. I won't be disappointed if it was the neutral though.
Not to go to any detail any more, but just one clarification. This correlation/"tradition" is only true for leds and it has been due to both current led technology (blue leds and phosphors) and the limited methods used in the old (standard) way to determine the cri.
That would be quite a surprise.
On the other hand, they have 4000K-6300K well covered, with some high cris included in the range. And some blue and red lights, too. The real warm white/incan white/3000K is pretty much the only light they are still missing.
Bolster
Flashlight Enthusiast
Not understanding...one more time please? Thanks
srfreddy
Enlightened
I think Esko means that LED design limits the CCT-CRI relationship, and also that CRI isn't the most accurate color rendering index.
I was actually talking about context. Depending on context neutral can mean anything from 4000K-5500K, cool can mean 4000K-6500K, daylight can mean 5000K-6500K as I don't think there's any standardized definition for those words. Sometimes when people use these words interchangeably in place of the actual temperature, it can get very confusing.
Getting back to the topic at hand, I've cross-referenced the luminosity specs of the base and daylight versions and added in the projected values for the neutral XM-L based on the bins ZL had used previously. Here's what I got:
Again, keep in mind that the H502w values here are projected, not in any way confirmed; they're based on the data listed in ZebraLight's specs for SC600 and H600. If ZL is looking for a better bin, these values are likely to be false (then again, consequently they might just turn out even better).
Anyway, look at the numbers. Note how the Rebel is a hog at high settings, only having 2/3 of the 6.3K XM-L's brightness, but it quickly closes the gap on medium, becoming virtually indistinguishable from the projected values for the 4.2K XM-L while still having a higher CRI. Considering that the use for highest settings on an all-flood lamp is rather dubious—unless your pocket is somehow always full of L91s—it appears to be a really good choice after all. I'll still wait for the actual 502w specs; if they happen to be even closer to the 6.3K values than what I've predicted it'll be a tough choice indeed.
| H502 | XM-L | 6300 K | 260 | 160 | 100 | 50 | 25 | 12 |
| H502w | XM-L | 4200 K | 224 | 138 | 86 | 43 | 22 | 10 |
| H502d | Rebel | 5000 K | 170 | 110 | 72 | 40 | 20 | 10 |
| Efficiency (H502d to H502) | 65,4% | 68,8% | 72,0% | 80,0% | 80,0% | 83,3% |
Again, keep in mind that the H502w values here are projected, not in any way confirmed; they're based on the data listed in ZebraLight's specs for SC600 and H600. If ZL is looking for a better bin, these values are likely to be false (then again, consequently they might just turn out even better).
Anyway, look at the numbers. Note how the Rebel is a hog at high settings, only having 2/3 of the 6.3K XM-L's brightness, but it quickly closes the gap on medium, becoming virtually indistinguishable from the projected values for the 4.2K XM-L while still having a higher CRI. Considering that the use for highest settings on an all-flood lamp is rather dubious—unless your pocket is somehow always full of L91s—it appears to be a really good choice after all. I'll still wait for the actual 502w specs; if they happen to be even closer to the 6.3K values than what I've predicted it'll be a tough choice indeed.
The cri is measured with a set of test colors, most of which are pretty light and unsaturated. As far as I know, most colors are usually rendered fairly well by leds but there is one exception: bright red. It is rendered relatively badly, thus contributing to a relatively big drop in cri. Cool whites don't emit much red light. Warm whites emit more, which makes the rendering of red colors better (better = more similar to the colors rendered by a filament bulb of the same CCT).
-> some others
I believe ZL is the only manufacturer that produces high cri headlamps, the lights are offered in both high cri and standard cri ranging from 4000K to 6300K, and H502d is the first headlamp if not the first production led light offered in high cri at 5000K. The led is the only difference between the different models. I can't quite understand why discussing about the effects of cri (and cct) in a few short messages would be off topic. Especially since many members have been asking about the differences and trade-offs and have been unsure which model to buy.
saypat
Enlightened
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- Jul 12, 2011
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sheeesh, has anybody received their headlamp??? How come nobody is posting any pictures???
riccardo.dv
Newly Enlightened
Sorry, i don't have pics, if I got the energy I'll try tonight after work. Never posted pics before so that could problematic. Anyway, this is a FANTASTIC little task light for anything. It's insanely bright if you need it, or insanely low also. The 120 spread is awesome, I have no glare problems at all and wear reading glasses for close work. The wall of light is huge, at 12 inches there is 3 1/2 to 4 foot beam. I love it. I use it at work in electrical enclosures and it is perfect for that. It is perfect for anything close.
I've tried it outside in the woods by work. If your picking your way on a faint trail you will need a little more throw maybe, and something incandescent like helps. On a well worn trail this headlamp would be more than adequate. It beats a mini mag which used to be the main light I carried hunting many moons ago, LOL. That WASN'T fun, and a lot of time's I'd lose the trail and end up having to cut through a swamp or some pine trees or blowdowns. I wasn't lost, just couldn't find the easy trail. Anyway, I digress. bottom line here is if you don't want to lose the trail get a decent incan or HCRI with both flood and throw, not this headlamp.
It seems tough, I've dropped it a few times and it hasn't broke. It doesn't seem as prone to coming on in the pocket as the H51, it hasn't happened once to me, and I don't lock it out. My H51 came on a lot. My H-51 has a cracked lens and is also dead. This puppy seems tougher, time will tell. The fit and finish are Surefire quality to my eye. Oh yeah, it's even a little smaller than the H51.
It has a way to program sub levels, I doubt I'll ever use that feature. The six default levels work just fine for me. Someday maybe I'll play with that.
In summary, the only thing better would be an XML implanted in your forhead, controlled by thought, and also rotatable like a zebralight.
I've tried it outside in the woods by work. If your picking your way on a faint trail you will need a little more throw maybe, and something incandescent like helps. On a well worn trail this headlamp would be more than adequate. It beats a mini mag which used to be the main light I carried hunting many moons ago, LOL. That WASN'T fun, and a lot of time's I'd lose the trail and end up having to cut through a swamp or some pine trees or blowdowns. I wasn't lost, just couldn't find the easy trail. Anyway, I digress. bottom line here is if you don't want to lose the trail get a decent incan or HCRI with both flood and throw, not this headlamp.
It seems tough, I've dropped it a few times and it hasn't broke. It doesn't seem as prone to coming on in the pocket as the H51, it hasn't happened once to me, and I don't lock it out. My H51 came on a lot. My H-51 has a cracked lens and is also dead. This puppy seems tougher, time will tell. The fit and finish are Surefire quality to my eye. Oh yeah, it's even a little smaller than the H51.
It has a way to program sub levels, I doubt I'll ever use that feature. The six default levels work just fine for me. Someday maybe I'll play with that.
In summary, the only thing better would be an XML implanted in your forhead, controlled by thought, and also rotatable like a zebralight.
Bolster
Flashlight Enthusiast
Interesting. (And IMHO, totally on topic, given the choice of CRIs ZL offers.) I was aware of the orange/red deficiency in the standard LED, and thought they had trouble rendering blue-green as well. I've not actually seen the spectrum histogram for the high CRIs ZL is offering, however. Does anyone here know where it might be viewed?
I believe SF also has a high CRI Saint available, the Vision. Other than ZL and SF, I can't think of other high CRI offerings in headlamps. I'd expect Spark to have something soon. Sure wished Quark would make a headlamp.
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