ZEBRALIGHT REVIEW – 2 Malfunctions in all 4 lights

[Outdoorsman5]

The four lights up for review are the – SC600w Mk III HI, the new SC600w Mk IV HI, the SC64w, and the H600w Mk IV.

Zebralight has been my favorite flashlight & headlight Company for more than 7 years. I own I think 16 or so of their lights, and have bought 4 of their new lights over the past 14 months. This review is meant to point out all that is great about these lights plus to report 2 malfunctions I’ve discovered in each light.

HERE’S WHAT’S AWESOME ABOUT ALL FOUR LIGHTS:

Their UI (User Interface) is the best in the business to me (2 lows, 2 mediums, & 2 highs plus the ability to further program these setting.) Also, they are always among the smallest & lightest lights around not to mention they are always on the cutting edge of awesome output & runtimes. The SC600w Mk III and Mk IV HI lights are my favorite outdoor lights due to their excellent throw for such a small light. The headlights are my favorite for overall performance, size, & weight.

HERE ARE THE MALFUNCTIONS I’VE DISCOVERED IN ALL FOUR LIGHTS:

The SC600w Mk III HI abruptly cuts off at times when turning the light on to H1 (max). When the light behaves this way, it won’t turn back on for 2-3 seconds. It doesn’t do this every time, but is problematic. I’ve sent the light back to Zebralight 3 times now, and so far they have said they cannot duplicate the problem. When the light returned to me I have been able to duplicate the problem within a few minutes each time. They have sent me 6 brand new Panasonic/Sanyo NCR 18650GA batteries (I now have 9 of them.) All batteries were/are fully charged for this review yet the malfunction persists no matter which battery is in use.

The SC600w MK IV HI, the SC64w, and the H600w Mk IV ALL have 2 noticeable malfunctions. All 3 of them abruptly cuts off as described above. The SC600w Mk IV HI cuts out the most, followed by the SC64w; whereas, the H64w so far has only cut out on me twice (in 2 days). The SC64w cut out on me within the first 4 clicks out of the box. It was then I discover the malfunction is more widespread. It took a longer amount of time before the H600w Mk IV cut out on me. I took it outside in the cold, and that “perhaps” induced the problem. Again the batteries in each were fully charged.

I’ve also discovered an additional malfunction in each of these 3 lights that have the new UI where you can program G6 or G7. Before I programmed the G6 & G7 settings in each light, they operated just fine. Once I programmed G6 and G7 in each, the malfunctions became noticeable. Sometimes the UI will skip medium (happens in the SC64w and the H600w Mk IV), but does not always occur. I asked Zebralight about this and they recommended I unscrew the tail each time to reset the light. With this response, I’m guessing they are aware of this problem, but I don’t like the solution since it happens regularly. Another example of malfunction showed up today in the H600w Mk IV when I pressed & held the button, nothing happened until I let go (after a few seconds.) Once I released the button it came on high. The SC600w Mk IV behaves slightly differently. Instead of skipping medium it will get stuck in either M1 (medium 1) or M2 (medium 2) and will not toggle between the two. If I unscrew the tail and then tighten it again, the problems temporarily go away, but again since this happens regularly I view each of these issues as major malfunctions.

One more issue to point out - the max output of the older SC600w Mk III HI vs. the new SC600w Mk IV HI. The new light is listed at 1400 lumens; whereas, the older version is listed at 1126 lumens. When comparing the two outdoors or indoors, I cannot discern the slightest difference in brightness, and have determined that they are in fact the same brightness. That was disappointing, but does not change the fact that I feel both in spite of these issues are potentially the best outdoor lights I’ve ever used (amazing throw & brightness for the size.) Once the bugs are worked out, I will certainly want one!

I hope this unusual review is helpful to some. Even though I’ve discovered something concerning with these four lights, I will not abandon my favorite flashlight/headlight Company. I have faith that they will work this out in due time.

Best Regards!

 

[noboneshotdog]

Regarding dropping down on H1:

I hate to say it, but I seriously doubt the light is the issue. The probability of getting that many defective lights is almost impossible. ZL has no problem owning up to its faulty lights and would replace it if it was defective.

If this was a "common" problem I think we all would have already known about it.

I think you ought to consider the likelihood that the problem is somewhere on your end. Maybe a bad charger.

No one can possibly be as unlucky as you have been w ZL.

Hope you are able to figure it out.

 

[Fireclaw18]

Sounds like the problem is your batteries.

If you're using low-quality batteries that can't sustain high current, that might explain the issue you're seeing. All 4 of your lights are 18650 lights and all your 18650 cells are probably the same or similar. That could explain why you see the same issue in all 4 lights regardless of which of your batteries you use. It would also explain why Zebralight has been unable to replicate the problem.

Try purchasing some high-quality high-current batteries from a reliable vendor. I suggest Mountain Electronics. Order flat-top Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC5, VTC5A, or VTC6.

NOTE: while bad batteries might explain the lights not staying in H1, I'm not sure it would explain the bizarre behavior at medium setting. That might be something else.

 

[archimedes]

OP, thank you for reposting your report of this important information, in the new "adjusted" format.

I look forward to the productive discussion which has already started ....

 

[Outdoorsman5]

I guess it could be the batteries, but I have 9 brand new fully charged Panasonic/Sanyo NCR 18650GA's and received ALL 9 of them from Zebralight. That is the recommended battery from ZL - the red battery on their website. I see your suggestions, but respectfully disagree.

Also, Zebralight will absolutely refund my money on the 3 new lights, and the old one is still out for repair. Their customer service has always been good.

 

[noboneshotdog]

Sounds like the problem is your batteries.

If you're using low-quality batteries that can't sustain high current, that might explain the issue you're seeing. All 4 of your lights are 18650 lights and all your 18650 cells are probably the same or similar. That could explain why you see the same issue in all 4 lights regardless of which of your batteries you use. It would also explain why Zebralight has been unable to replicate the problem.

Try purchasing some high-quality high-current batteries from a reliable vendor. I suggest Mountain Electronics. Order flat-top Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC5, VTC5A, or VTC6.

NOTE: while bad batteries might explain the lights not staying in H1, I'm not sure it would explain the bizarre behavior at medium setting. That might be something else.

And maybe purchase a new quality charger with a digital readout of voltage. :thumbsup:

 

[Modernflame]

I guess it could be the batteries, but I have 9 brand new fully charged Panasonic/Sanyo NCR 18650GA's ...

I'm certainly no expert, but on the surface it seems far fetched that nine new Panasonic/Sanyo 18650's all have the same problem. OP, do you have any other suitable 18650's of known quality that you can use to rule out the batteries?

Also, forgive me if I missed it, but what charger are you using? I'm not aware of any modern chargers that don't have built in digital volt meter. Personally, I don't rely on the voltage read out on my charger, but I have a high quality multi meter. Do you have one?

The batteries are not out of the docket yet, but it should be easy to rule them out as the culprit.

 

[Outdoorsman5]

And maybe purchase a new quality charger with a digital readout of voltage. :thumbsup:

See below...

I'm certainly no expert, but on the surface it seems far fetched that nine new Panasonic/Sanyo 18650's all have the same problem. OP, do you have any other suitable 18650's of known quality that you can use to rule out the batteries?

Also, forgive me if I missed it, but what charger are you using? I'm not aware of any modern chargers that don't have built in digital volt meter. Personally, I don't rely on the voltage read out on my charger, but I have a high quality multi meter. Do you have one?

The batteries are not out of the docket yet, but it should be easy to rule them out as the culprit.

It's not any of my chargers or batteries. I thought of this months ago, and Zebralight asked this too. I've been at this a very long time and understand Li-ion batteries very well - voltage, charging, etc. Here are the chargers I use; you will notice I like XTAR:

XTAR WP2S
XTAR XP4
XTAR VC2 Plus (I own 2 of these)
XTAR ANT-MC1 Plus (I own 2 of these)
GE Digital Multimeter - GE2524
Battery Tester - ZTS Pulse Load Multi-Battery Tester
I even have an Anker Powerport 21w Solar Charger and an older PowerFilm Foldable Solar Charger.

I own around 30 18650's (since I have dozens of lights - been a flashaholic since 2008...maybe even since I was a kid in the 70's & 80's.) Most have circuit protection or are button top or are just not short enough to fit the SC600w Mk III HI or Mk IV HI, so my only options for those two lights are the red ones from ZL - Panasonic NCR 18650GA's. Since my headlight is a H600w Mk II, I usually want the battery in that light to fit my SC600w Mk III or IV HI when camping - I'm the Scoutmaster of our BSA Troop and go camping every month. While backpacking last month on the A.T. at night my H600w Mk II worked just fine (as it always has), but my SC600w Mk IV HI kept cutting off when I'd select H1 (the battery was a 100% when we started, so again it's not the battery.)

I've used my Multimeter more over the past 14 months than I've used it in 5 years. I bought the SC600w Mk III HI 14 months ago, and only had 3 of the red batteries from ZL at the time. They've since sent me 6 more. All of them seem to be in excellent working condition. I've tested them all. I've used them, drained them (never all the way down), have recharged them, tested them many times, and have seen no sign of malfunction. My batteries come off my charges consistently at 4.2v...maybe 4.19 (which is why I love the XTAR's, very consistant). The meter readings on my XTAR VC2 Plus chargers are very accurate (I've verified their readings with my multimeter.)

I'm baffled with this poor performance from Zebralight. If my lights are cutting off due to the batteries then OK, I can accept that. But, that does not explain the malfunctions I'm having with the UI in the 3 newest lights.

 

[Modernflame]

Thank you for the clarification. I think we can safely rule out batteries as the cause. It's good to know that ZL is making it right by refunding your money.

 

[Nev]

The four lights up for review are the – SC600w Mk III HI, the new SC600w Mk IV HI, the SC64w, and the H64w.

Zebralight has been my favorite flashlight & headlight Company for more than 7 years. I own I think 16 or so of their lights, and have bought 4 of their new lights over the past 14 months. This review is meant to point out all that is great about these lights plus to report 2 malfunctions I’ve discovered in each light.

HERE’S WHAT’S AWESOME ABOUT ALL FOUR LIGHTS:

Their UI (User Interface) is the best in the business to me (2 lows, 2 mediums, & 2 highs plus the ability to further program these setting.) Also, they are always among the smallest & lightest lights around not to mention they are always on the cutting edge of awesome output & runtimes. The SC600w Mk III and Mk IV HI lights are my favorite outdoor lights due to their excellent throw for such a small light. The headlights are my favorite for overall performance, size, & weight.

HERE ARE THE MALFUNCTIONS I’VE DISCOVERED IN ALL FOUR LIGHTS:

The SC600w Mk III HI abruptly cuts off at times when turning the light on to H1 (max). When the light behaves this way, it won’t turn back on for 2-3 seconds. It doesn’t do this every time, but is problematic. I’ve sent the light back to Zebralight 3 times now, and so far they have said they cannot duplicate the problem. When the light returned to me I have been able to duplicate the problem within a few minutes each time. They have sent me 6 brand new Panasonic/Sanyo NCR 18650GA batteries (I now have 9 of them.) All batteries were/are fully charged for this review yet the malfunction persists no matter which battery is in use.

The SC600w MK III HI, the SC64w, and the H64w ALL have 2 noticeable malfunctions. All 3 of them abruptly cuts off as described above. The SC600w Mk IV HI cuts out the most, followed by the SC64w; whereas, the H64w so far has only cut out on me twice (in 2 days). The SC64w cut out on me within the first 4 clicks out of the box. It was then I discover the malfunction is more widespread. It took a longer amount of time before the H64w cut out on me. I took it outside in the cold, and that “perhaps” induced the problem. Again the batteries in each were fully charged.

I’ve also discovered an additional malfunction in each of these 3 lights that have the new UI where you can program G6 or G7. Before I programmed the G6 & G7 settings in each light, they operated just fine. Once I programmed G6 and G7 in each, the malfunctions became noticeable. Sometimes the UI will skip medium (happens in the SC64w and the H64w), but does not always occur. I asked Zebralight about this and they recommended I unscrew the tail each time to reset the light. With this response, I’m guessing they are aware of this problem, but I don’t like the solution since it happens regularly. Another example of malfunction showed up today in the H64w when I pressed & held the button, nothing happened until I let go (after a few seconds.) Once I released the button it came on high. The SC600w Mk IV behaves slightly differently. Instead of skipping medium it will get stuck in either M1 (medium 1) or M2 (medium 2) and will not toggle between the two. If I unscrew the tail and then tighten it again, the problems temporarily go away, but again since this happens regularly I view each of these issues as major malfunctions.

One more issue to point out - the max output of the older SC600w Mk III HI vs. the new SC600w Mk IV HI. The new light is listed at 1400 lumens; whereas, the older version is listed at 1126 lumens. When comparing the two outdoors or indoors, I cannot discern the slightest difference in brightness, and have determined that they are in fact the same brightness. That was disappointing, but does not change the fact that I feel both in spite of these issues are potentially the best outdoor lights I’ve ever used (amazing throw & brightness for the size.) Once the bugs are worked out, I will certainly want one!

I hope this unusual review is helpful to some. Even though I’ve discovered something concerning with these four lights, I will not abandon my favorite flashlight/headlight Company. I have faith that they will work this out in due time.

Best Regards!

Lol ,
I believe you , I use to be unlucky too because every time I use to buy something I allways seemed to get a faulty product wether it be from a shop or from the interweb, it got that bad that when I was about to pick say a power tool off the shelf I would put the one I picked back & pick one from the back or the middle , but when I got home to test the thing there would be something wrong with it or it didn't work, it drove me mad. Lol.
You are either being sent dodgy zebralights or dodgy battery's, get someone else to order them for you ha ha.
These MK IV zebras are new so I suspect there are glitches with them , I've got my eye on a MK IV zebra headlight but I'm reluctant to get one yet until I've heard of good reviews of them , I'm wondering why they havnt posted run times on the site yet. Until I hear of good reviews I will make do with my MK III.

 

[Outdoorsman5]

I have a feeling that the reason I got 4 faulty lights in a row is not just bad luck. I have a feeling that the problem could be more widespread. I just induced my H600w Mk IV into cutting off by putting it in the freezer for around 20 min. Within a few attempts of turning it on & off it soon abruptly cut out on me from H1 (max) & wouldn’t come back on for 2-3 sec. If you have one of the new lights will you try this & Report what happens.

Also, if you have one of the new lights, will you reprogram G6 and G7 and then see if the light starts malfunctioning - like mode skipping when holding the button down or medium gettin stuck or press & hold without the light cycling like it is suppose to? Try these things in G5, G6, and G7, and report back with your findings...if you don’t mind.

 

[Tachead]

I have a feeling that the reason I got 4 faulty lights in a row is not just bad luck. I have a feeling that the problem could be more widespread. I just induced my H64w into cutting off by putting it in the freezer for around 20 min. Within a few attempts of turning it on & off it soon abruptly cut out on me from H1 (max) & wouldn’t come back on for 2-3 sec. If you have one of the new lights will you try this & Report what happens.

Also, if you have one of the new lights, will you reprogram G6 and G7 and then see if the light starts malfunctioning - like mode skipping when holding the button down or medium gettin stuck or press & hold without the light cycling like it is suppose to? Try these things in G5, G6, and G7, and report back with your findings...if you don’t mind.

These new lights draw a lot of amps on H1, much more then earlier models. Lithium Ions don't perform well in the cold so, it is not unusual to see a drop in performance in the cold. I suspect that the cell just can't put out enough amps when it's cold like that so H1 kicks out. Does this problem usually happen when you are out in the cold? I noticed you mentioned the cold twice now.

Also, there is no H64w so I am not sure what model you are talking about?

 

[Outdoorsman5]

These new lights draw a lot of amps on H1, much more then earlier models. Lithium Ions don't perform well in the cold so, it is not unusual to see a drop in performance in the cold. I suspect that the cell just can't put out enough amps when it's cold like that so H1 kicks out. Does this problem usually happen when you are out in the cold? I noticed you mentioned the cold twice now.

Also, there is no H64w so I am not sure what model you are talking about?

My bad, I said "H64w" when I meant to say H600w Mk IV (I will correct it above so not to cause confusion for new readers.) That problem does happen more in the cold, but has not been limited to the cold. 2 nights ago when I got the SC64w in the mail it cut out on me within the first few attempts of turning it on to H1, and the light and the battery were at room temp (70ish degrees.) I understand what cold does to li-ion batteries (I've experienced their drop in performance many times on cold trips,) but I was just testing out the H600w Mk IV since I have been writing this.

Still, the cold does not explain the repeated problem I'm getting with the UI in the 3 newest lights with the new UI.

 

[Outdoorsman5]

OP, thank you for reposting your report of this important information, in the new "adjusted" format.

I look forward to the productive discussion which has already started ....

No worries archimedes. Sorry I did not know the rules in my previous post. After careful thought, I agree with each of those rules, so thank you.

 

[Tachead]

My bad, I said "H64w" when I meant to say H600w Mk IV (I will correct it above so not to cause confusion for new readers.) That problem does happen more in the cold, but has not been limited to the cold. 2 nights ago when I got the SC64w in the mail it cut out on me within the first few attempts of turning it on to H1, and the light and the battery were at room temp (70ish degrees.) I understand what cold does to li-ion batteries (I've experienced their drop in performance many times on cold trips,) but I was just testing out the H600w Mk IV since I have been writing this.

Still, the cold does not explain the repeated problem I'm getting with the UI in the 3 newest lights with the new UI.

Another thing to think about is resistance. If the contacts are dirty at all or the tailcap is not tight enough that could also effect performance(on H1 particularly) and possibly cause issues like you are describing. I suggest you get some Deoxit Gold and put some on the contacts and also make sure the bare aluminum contact surface at the end of the tailcap threads is clean and making good contact with its mating surface in the tailcap. Also, always make sure the tailcap is always good and tight.

Yep, that doesn't explain those. I will say that none of my 4 new ZL's have any of those issues you describe. I also have to ask why you feel the need to fiddle so much? Why not just set the UI how you like it and then just use the light? You do know that electronic switches only have so many clicks in them before they fail so, constantly screwing around and switching mode groups and settings will just wearing it out prematurely.

 

[archimedes]

No worries archimedes. Sorry I did not know the rules in my previous post. After careful thought, I agree with each of those rules, so thank you.

Thanks, and cheers

 

[Nev]

You either have faulty lights or these new lights need high drain batteries , seems strange that they don't produce the high lumens that's expected , you can't prove the lights are faulty until you try quality high drain battery's eg 30Q , also clean the contact point like the above poster mentioned.

 

[Outdoorsman5]

Another thing to think about is resistance. If the contacts are dirty at all or the tailcap is not tight enough that could also effect performance(on H1 particularly) and possibly cause issues like you are describing. I suggest you get some Deoxit Gold and put some on the contacts and also make sure the bare aluminum contact surface at the end of the tailcap threads is clean and making good contact with its mating surface in the tailcap. Also, always make sure the tailcap is always good and tight.

I've thought of this too, but maybe I should revisit it with the 2 new arrivals (the SC64w and the H600w Mk IV.) I don't have Deoxit Gold, but have used rubbing alcohol and some Silicone Grease from Nitecore for years (seems to work well.) I do have the tails tight, and understand that functionality quite well. I doubt I'm making that mistake in each of the instances the lights have malfunctioned.

Yep, that doesn't explain those. I will say that none of my 4 new ZL's have any of those issues you describe. I also have to ask why you feel the need to fiddle so much? Why not just set the UI how you like it and then just use the light? You do know that electronic switches only have so many clicks in them before they fail so, constantly screwing around and switching mode groups and settings will just wearing it out prematurely.

Odd question, but I'll explain. When I got the new SC600w Mk IV HI I really liked the idea of the new user interface. In G5 I set H1 & H2 to run quite bright. I set G6 up with H2 a bit lower to conserve battery. I set G7 up to run at some of the lower upper setting in H2, M1, & M2 to conserve battery power even more but still be bright enough on the trail to be useful. On another occasion, I went to a party around a campfire. In anticipation of someone borrowing the light I set up G7 to a more basic mode - H1 & H2 were the same, M1 & M2 were the same, and L1 & L2 were the same. 3 outputs would be less confusing if just handing my light off to a newb. Instead of going through a long tutorial, I could just tell them to hold the button down & release on whatever setting they wanted. It was during the first time I programmed the light that I discovered the malfunctions. Also, I'm a flashaholic, so what do you expect me to do with new awesome lights

 

[INFRNL]

haha...its always the batteries...

I guess I will be the first to contest that I have the same exact issue as the OP (well the first issue at least)
I own the SC600w MKIII HI and mentioned in the zebralight forum about it randomly just cutting off in H1 mode. never resolved the issue and everyone wanted to say batteries or charger.

I own the GA's that is recommended by ZL. LG's, Sony's, AW's, etc. they will all produce the same issue. I use high quality chargers/cells and I think the charger would be the least bit important to this issue. When the issue happens, the voltage isn't low enough that that should be an issue. It is obviously something in the light, electronics/circuitry. The ZL does not draw enough current to even phase an NCR18650GA

I have done a runtime test with this light on the GA, MJ1, VT6 cells and they all made it through the test. However the light will still randomly cutoff. It has a mind of it's own.

I am just here to say that the OP is not full of BS on the cutting off part and it has been a random issue for a while. I wish i had an answer for you and wish you the best of luck in getting this all figured out and/or taken care of.

I kind of wish I had the MKIV so I can comment on the max outputs. There are many variables on the output aspect but clearly you have quite a bit of experience. My guess is that in reality there is some kind of difference in output; it's just that your eyes cannot see the difference. it take quite a bit of difference in output to actually see the difference.
when we are talking over 1000lm, 1150-1400lm is nothing.
If I had the new light I could tell you the actual difference in max output, but that will not happen as i am not seeing the best news from the Mk IV's or new lights

 

[Woods Walker]

These new lights draw a lot of amps on H1, much more then earlier models. Lithium Ions don't perform well in the cold so, it is not unusual to see a drop in performance in the cold. I suspect that the cell just can't put out enough amps when it's cold like that so H1 kicks out. Does this problem usually happen when you are out in the cold? I noticed you mentioned the cold twice now.

Also, there is no H64w so I am not sure what model you are talking about?

I am currently testing that new Nitecore 8A low temperature battery. Some batteries will trigger the protection circuit if that draw is too high as well but this is also a known issue with high draw lights. I wonder what the rate of reduction in draw/output/whatever is for a 18650 in cold conditions (which needs also to be defined). Mostly interested as testing out that battery.

edit.

On a side note given the numbers of batteries and chargers etc the OP has I kinda question if those are the issue but don't really know as don't own these lights.