Zebralight SC700d 21700 XHP70.2 90+CRI

moozooh

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Pretty much all consumer electronics use "unprotected" cells, and rely on the device's circuitry. Think of a typical device with a single 18650 cell, like my toothbrush. It doesn't have a cell with a wrapper covering a protection circuit--it uses an "unprotected" cell, and has charge/discharge circuits to protect it built into the toothbrush.
To be fair, the main reason why this is the case is that the end-user is not expected to take cells out by themself. Flashlights and Ecigs are the notable exceptions but they're also considered enthusiast items with all the expected caveats (e.g. the lack of safety certifications that would allow suing the manufacturer for damage—the end-user assumes any and all risks and responsibilities). As such, the highest danger of using unprotected cells is experienced when the cell is not inside the device in question. An accidental short or a charging fault are rather common (especially if kids are involved) and very dangerous. Protection circuits don't safeguard from all kinds of damage or accidents, but they help minimize risks which are decidedly non-trivial. I won't try to convince anyone to do it one way or another, but this information is to be kept in mind when making decisions.

For the sc600 experts on here, what is the runtime and stepdown time likely to be on this new one at 3k Lm?
Assuming you can cool it down sufficiently to sustain maximum brightness—which is highly unlikely, mind you—you should get about 30 minutes with a 17.5 Wh battery (Samsung T48 4800 mAh) based on the spec limit of the LED (29 W). At room temperature it will start stepping down almost immediately, albeit very gradually, until it reaches its temperature target; this should happen within 10–20 minutes or so, depending on the ambient temperature and the mode you started at. I have revised my earlier estimates based on the fact that the lowest PID mode has 945 lm maximum brightness, meaning that one and any higher values are not considered sustainable under normal conditions. So, assuming a 17.5 Wh battery and ~900 lm at the thermal equilibrium point (which depends on ambient temperature), you'd be looking at 2–2.5 hours or so. Subtract about 13–15% of that runtime for a 4000 mAh battery (Samsung T40). The real-world runtime difference between T40 and T48 is expected to be less than the nominal 16.7% on the higher modes since the T40 has a more robust voltage curve, thus not sagging as much under heavy load.
 

justanotherguy

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Still wondering if this thing will run on a 4800 or 5000 mAh cell.... Really looking to run 1-1500 lumens for a long time
 

Connor

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I don't think 10A will be enough to get 3000 lm .. you probably need around 20A max. cells.
 

Auringonvalo

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What I have experienced with a SC600Fd Mk3 is that 1500 Lm mode stays a bit over 1 min in room temperature before stepping down. It seems that about 400 Lm is possible without stepping down in normal conditions. About 800 Lm can be held when going below the freezing point and 1000 Lm or above when it is really really cold. Assuming that SC700d lumen PID modes and highest non-PID mode is linear compared to their other regulated lights, stable 1500 Lm could be very possible when going below the freezing point. This would be good because in Finland it is usually well below the freezing point in darkest days or there is so much wind that it has similar cooling effect.
 

radellaf

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If anyone here has an SC600w IV Plus and is considering an SC700d and would kindly share their 2¢, your opinions are appreciated.

Have the IV Plus and the III HI, and pre-ordered the 700 as soon as I saw it (today). I never pre-order anything, but I'll make an exception since I'm so excited to see this LED & battery combination with all ZL's finesse instead of the other ugly (IMHO) and big ones currently available.

Why I want it is more a tech geek thing than practical use. I have an XHP35, then 50, so naturally I "need" a 70 now. 18650 is a fine format and I have tons of them and they'll be the main thing for a long time. I love the SC64 and Emisar D4 size for SDC (some day carry, 1xAAA is EDC). The Emisar D4S is a lot of fun and now I know what a 26650 is like. It makes for a good body size, but until Japan and Korea take up the format, one 26650 flashlight is enough. 21700 is being taken seriously by battery manufacturers so should be fun to watch. 18650s really seem to have topped out, since the "3600mAh" cells I got are no better than the 3500mAh of last year. I got the 40T just so I get something with the light, but will have to do some research on lower current cells after we get some current measurements off the SC700.

So, it's a LED I really want to have in a light, and a way to use a new battery size I'm interested in. And it's a new ZL. That is enough. Worth the sacrifice of putting off a second 8TB external drive for a month or two.

I don't think 10A will be enough to get 3000 lm .. you probably need around 20A max. cells.

30W at 3.6V and 85% efficiency is still a bit under 10A, so I don't expect this light to go over that. Given 18650 performance, though, 10-15A cells running at 8-10A may have the same or worse Wh than lower mAh 25-35A cells. However, unless I'm running it in a mug of water or on a bike that isn't my exercise bike, that 8-10A isn't going to account for much of the time I use this light. So, I'll probably get a lower drain cell a few days after the light arrives and I get tired of waiting for the one it came with to charge.
 
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CelticCross74

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"made in America this time"? I remember reading on this site I believe a couple of years ago that ZL has TWO factories. ONE is in China for THAT part of the world. The OTHER is in TEXAS. I actually emailed ZL when the newer SC600's came out asking them where they source their materials. To my amazement ZL actually emailed me back in 24 hours! In the newer ZL's for North America they are made in Texas. All the parts are from the States, India and a couple of other countries that are NOT China.

As for the ZL's made in their Chinese factory even THOSE have more non Chinese parts than Chinese parts. I think it is the ZL bodies and reflectors that the Chinese ZL factory makes the rest of the parts are from Western suppliers.

As for "marrying itself to CREE" there are only a couple other emitter producers left now like Nichia that have a foot hold in the LED light market. What I wonder is are they ACTUALLY MADE BY CREE or are they cheap Chinese CREE knock offs? For how much they cost I assume the emitters are actual CREE emitters off of a CREE assembly line.

I also took a shot in the dark and asked ZL if they could email me the design schematics of the SC600 and of course got a "NO" answer to that in return. Was worth a shot lol..
 

moozooh

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As for "marrying itself to CREE" there are only a couple other emitter producers left now like Nichia that have a foot hold in the LED light market. What I wonder is are they ACTUALLY MADE BY CREE or are they cheap Chinese CREE knock offs?
Let's be honest here, Nichia's "foothold" in the LED light market is really tiny... It all amounts to low-volume enthusiast-only lights. Nichia has no presence in consumer flashlights otherwise.

I wouldn't worry about knock-offs (...has anyone actually seen those?) in high-performance lights for at least two reasons. One is that the cost of the LED(s) is only 5–15% the full price of a brand-name light (the more expensive the light, the less the percentage), so there is not much economical incentive to downgrade. The other is that for companies operating on smaller-scale enthusiast markets it's nearly impossible to avoid getting caught trying to pass a noticeably inferior emitter for a high performance one. Users post reviews and disassemble their lights all the time, it's all too easy to get busted and have their reputation ruined for no tangible payoff. Literally not worth the risk.
 
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StorminMatt

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I don't think 10A will be enough to get 3000 lm .. you probably need around 20A max. cells.

A couple of things. First of all, I am not sure whether 3000 lumens will TRULY require more than 10A. My old SC600Fd Plus draws 6A for 1500 lumens. This at least suggests a 12A draw for 3000 lumens on the SC700d. But if Zebralight has improved the circuitry on newer lights and/or the efficiency of the XHP70.2 is significantly better than the older XHP50 (likely), it is possible that the SC700d may draw proportionately less current than the SC600Fd Plus. It could be that 10A is just FINE for 3000 lumens.

But even if it's not, the 50E is rated at 10A for CONTINUOUS discharge. I have not seen what it can do intermittently. But I'm guessing around 15A (which should be sufficient beyond all doubt). Considering that there is probably no way that you are going to get 3000 lumens from this light for very long unless it is 30 below with a stiff wind, you are probably fine using the 50E for the brief period of time the light can maintain 3000 lumens.

However, even if you feel better playing it safe, you can certainly use a lower current cell if you keep out of H1. The 50E should be able to safely support the 1458 lumen H2 indefinitely. And even here, you are dealing with a PID mode - even this output will not likely be maintained for long under normal conditions of use.
 
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moozooh

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My old SC600Fd Plus draws 6A for 1500 lumens. This at least suggests a 12A draw for 3000 lumens on the SC700d. But if Zebralight has improved the circuitry on newer lights and/or the efficiency of the XHP70.2 is significantly better than the older XHP50 (likely), it is possible that the SC700d may draw proportionately less current than the SC600Fd Plus.
Going purely by the specs: XHP50 in your SC600Fd IV Plus is rated at 3 A at 6 V; XHP 70.2 in the SC700d is rated at 4.8 A at 6 V. So, with operating voltage being equal, in the worst case the new LED will demand a 4.8/3=1.6 times increased current draw on the battery, so 6×1.6=9.6 A. And indeed, unless you have a way to sustain the 3000 lm brightness, it will drop down very significantly.
 

radellaf

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Until ZL posts something, all we could do is estimate lower levels based on battery capacity and the SC600mkiv+. 33% more at least with a 4000mAh vs 3000mAh battery, for the high amp cells.
I have some Samsung 50E 5000mAh that should arrive before the flashlight so I can test those when it gets here.

Non PID level is 358 for 5.1H with the 600, they're saying 583lm for this one, I'll wager that'll run about 4.2h off a 40T if they're testing the 600 with the VTC6.
Not sure if they're using the Sanyo 3500/10A cell, though. Odd the runtime specs don't mention battery any more, unless I'm just not seeing it.

Would be amazing if it got here the 8th night of Hanukkah (Dec 10), but I'll be happy if their 14th estimate gets it here by Christmas. Or New Year. Hope they take more time rather than let through problems if there's a choice.
 

WalkIntoTheLight

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Non PID level is 358 for 5.1H with the 600, they're saying 583lm for this one, I'll wager that'll run about 4.2h off a 40T if they're testing the 600 with the VTC6.
Not sure if they're using the Sanyo 3500/10A cell, though. Odd the runtime specs don't mention battery any more, unless I'm just not seeing it.

I get 5.7 hours using the Sanyo GA cell.
 

NPL

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I was a little hesitant on this light but there doesn't seem to be anything else out on the market that offers the same combination of output, CRI, efficiency, build quality, and compactness.

It's a shame they didn't offer it in 4500k instead of 5000k. Hopefully they will release a C version with 4000k as well for the other half.
 

twistedraven

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You might want to look into the Firefles E07 as well. Like the SC700d, it's a 21700 light, high cri emitter options, compact. Its fet+1 driver isn't quite as efficient as zebralight's buck-boost drivers, but it will produce more light on its highest output as a result of the fet. Lower outputs should be relatively equivalent. The E07 comes with two different high cri options: nichia 219C 5000k 92 cri, and luminus sst20 4000k 95 cri.
 

NPL

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You might want to look into the Firefles E07 as well. Like the SC700d, it's a 21700 light, high cri emitter options, compact. Its fet+1 driver isn't quite as efficient as zebralight's buck-boost drivers, but it will produce more light on its highest output as a result of the fet. Lower outputs should be relatively equivalent. The E07 comes with two different high cri options: nichia 219C 5000k 92 cri, and luminus sst20 4000k 95 cri.
The fet+1 driver kills it for me.
For extended use, the Fireflies will not have regulated high output unless you use it in +1 linear which is both inefficient and lower in output. Otherwise does seem like a great light.

In practice though, the 7 LEDs might compensate for the ineffocient driver.
 
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