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Darell said:
Yeah. Not pretty. I know the owners of both these companies... and I probably don't know much more than you do about where they stand today! I have begged them both to increase their exposure and PR... but it falls on deaf ears. They don't want to "waste" the time or money on that. But jeez - they NEED the support of the EV community, and if we're kept in the dark, I'm not sure what they hope to gain. This has frustrated me for several years now. I wish I had better news! I keep hearing "There's nothing to say until we have product." But that just isn't true. If we're expected to purchase these things, we need to start saving, or but off a second vehicle purchase to afford it... or whatever. It is a purchase that needs to be planed for, not a spur-of-the-moment thing, ya know? OK. Preaching to the choir here, I'm sure.
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Well, the company is real, the guys behind it are real, the prototypes (many of them!) are real... and now we finally have one *real* delivered "production" vehicle. What has to happen before the rest of it becomes real is a large infusion of money - or at least promises of purchase from people who put deposits down. No money, no car. Simple as that. I'm considering putting a deposit down on a second one, actually.
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I don't doubt that Commuter Cars or the Tango are real - there are too many photos and movies out there. What bothers me is that there's not a steady stream of information, news pieces, and press releases like most startups keep pushing through...
I'm interested enough in the T100 that I'd quite likely put down that deposit ... if I could afford it. But I'm not feeling confident about Commuter Cars, Inc since the only news I can find about them is a big "aged."
I get the impression that AC Propulsion makes some money on the two kit products they sell and a bit more doing concept vehicles/demonstrators for automakers/etc.
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Darell said:
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idleprocess said:
I need to drive ~50 miles/day currently, so I need more than ~500 cycles from my battery pack
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This really isn't a problem with current high-density pba packs. No point in arguing about any sort of batteries until the vehicle is even available. These *can* be VERY practical cars for a 50-mile commute. We'd be buying one for a 40-mile RT commute.
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Per commutercars.com:
Battery replacement is the largest portion of the cost-per-mile for an electric car. To demonstrate how this works, we use Optima's cycle life vs. depth of discharge graph. This graph applies to laboratory-controlled charge and discharge cycles, yet is quite indicative of the effects of driver habits. If the Tango were driven to 80% DOD (depth of discharge) or more (approximately 64 to 80 miles regularly between charges), the pack will only yield 250 cycles. This works out to approximately 16 cents per mile with current Optima Yellow Top prices of $100. However, if discharged to 25% DOD (20 to 24 miles between charges), the chart shows 4,000 cycles can be achieved yielding 80,000 miles with a cost of only 3.1 cents per mile.
Exide Deep-cycle batteries &
Optima Yellow Top "dual purpose starting and deep cycle" batteries
Right now, recharging at work is not an option and probably never will be, so I'm looking at replacing a ~$2500 battery pack roughly ONCE A YEAR if I push 60 miles/day. I don't want to know what happens to the range once you get near the end of cycle life. True, this is all theory, but it's what Commuter Cars has published, and it's very troubling.
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Most of the EV groups are email reflectors. I don't know of any reasonable ones that are CPF-like, at least. ... Many Yahoo groups.
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General - I'm seeking more information about EVs in general, preferably from people that have owned or driven them. I guess I'll email you about it or look around myself.