Maglite's output numbers magically double or almost triple overnight???

A few days ago I looked at maglite dot com to check the output ratings of my 2D maglite. I looked all over the entire sight from the maglite solitaire all the way up to the 6D and the magcharger. I noticed a slightly higher output from the mag-num star bulbs but that's what I expected. Then, a few days later, I checked the sight again to look up the output ratings for my friend's 3D maglite and I noticed the numbers being distinctly different. These numbers may not be exact but I remember some of the output ratings from the old site.

Old numbers--------------
2D-18 lumens
3D-39 lumens
6D-114 lumens
Magcharger-175 lumens
Mag solitaire-.5 lumens

New numbers-------------
2D-40 lumens
3D-82 lumens
6D-233 lumens
Magcharger-218 lumens
Mag solitaire-2.3 lumens
------------------------------
What's goin' on here??

Thanks

scott

edit

The numbers are bogus.

I have the new lamps. None are brighter than the stock MagCharger lamp, period.

If you overdrive the 5 cell Xenon lamp, you get close to the MagCharger, but the Magcharger is still brighter and has more output.

The 5 cell Xenon is the only only one I have been able to overdrive with one cell with any consistency, usually they just blow. They are on the edge, evidently.

Mag is pulling a fast one here, or using perfect world numbers. In addition, they are quoting LAMP lumens, not TORCH lumens, as Surefire does.

Multiply that 233 by .65 and you are closer, but I still don't think it puts out even 160 or so lumens.

Bill

ZeissOEM2 said:

It seems to be that there is some new lamps.

Click to expand...

I doubt that's the case; they haven't said anything about new/revised bulbs.. would be wise of them to do that if they are new and improved.

I have both charts, most lumens numbers almost doubled for both Krypton and Xenon bulbs.

FWIW I had this email exchange with Maglight concerning brightness and runtime. While it doesn't specifically address this thread's subject, I think you will find it interesting none the less. I went to their web site and asked a straight forward question "How long will it take a 4D cell Maglight to drop to 50% of it's initial brightness" I was so startled by their answer I replied back asking them to confirm their response. So you have their confirmation here first and then my reply asking for them to confirm. They were quite forthright about the whole thing, I've gotta give them credit for that.


To: [email protected]
CC:
Subject: Maglite.com Website Visit - Your Feedback
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:45:53 -0800

Greg:

Our test show that the voltage decreases from 30-50% within the first
30 minutes of on time.

---------- ORIGINAL MESSAGE ----------
TO : Mag Instrument, Inc. Web Site (www.magmail.com)
FROM : [email protected]
RECEIVED: 11/18/2003 11:32:56 AM EST

Re: Maglite.com Website Visit - Your Feedback

Thank you for your quick reply concerning my query on runtime of a
set of batteries to 50% of initial brightness.

I was surprised however by your reply that it took only 20-30 minutes
to drop to 50% of initial brightness.

Although I did not specify, can you confirm this is correct? With
fresh alkaline batteries?

GregR

It is a late market trend.
Every manufacturer, with the notable exception of SureFire, is quoting double of the flux, at the bulb with fresh battery.
The 2D is 20 lumens at bulb, and after is on for 30 minutes the flux has decreased to 10 lumens. If you calculate all the losses, the indicated output flux is 4 times less.
SF quotes the output flux averaged over the runtime. Hope they do not feel compelled to follow this new market trend.

Anthony

MAGLite wrote: "Our test show that the voltage decreases from 30-50% within the first 30 minutes of on time."

Hello? Voltage is not brightness. They didn't answer the question. Brightness is probably down by 50% within 15 minutes.

Confused by the MAG lumens numbers game? Welcome to the world of G&P fans, where a high-pressure xenon 9V lamp is variously described as 120 lumens, 140, and 175.

Mistake mistake mistake, they are making very bad mistakes by not realising the existence of candlepowerforums.

I am sure they know about CPF.

The problem is, we are a very small fraction of the flashlight-using population.

When you show off a flashlight to one of the unenlightened, they usually respond favorably, until they discover how much you paid for it. The reponse is almost always a variation of "You paid how much? But it's just a flashlight!"

After that, it's usually futile to explain the advantages of efficiency, regulated brightness, reflector/optic efficiency, etc. Very few people are willing to spend more than $20 for a flashlight, and Maglites are right at that price point.

Most buyers don't know the difference between lumens, candlepower, lux, etc. Those who do are likely to spot baloney in advertised specs. I don't see what Mag has to gain by this exaggeration, but it's also not likely that it will hurt them, either.

I just think it's an example of them catering to the least common demoninator... folks that, if they notice the lumen rating at all, might compare it with something from Inova a couple racks over and since Inova lies, Mag has figured they must too.

As much as we all like to knock Mag, I always kind of respected that I thought that they rated their lights approximately correctly... now even that's out the window.

Still, I doubt they will sell any more or any less Mags because of their changes in ratings. Folks that don't know what they are looking at don't care and folks that DO know what they are looking at, likely know the limitations of Mags anyway.

I've witnessed some folks shopping for flashlights who were strictly going by the (usually bogus) output numbers on the packages. Proof that marketing propaganda can increase sales. "Look man, this one is 100,000 candlepower! Its the one we need"

True, but I also believe that more and more people are getting more internet savvy and for every new person that buys a light at Target/Walmart etc... based on a bogus lumen rating, there is probably a new person that has done research only to find out that... some folks are lying.

I would tend to think that if folks are buying lights based on the claims on the packaging, they are probably more interested in longer runtimes and the fact that the LEDs don't burn out... Just witness how many people on this forum have claimed the River Rock products were sold out at multiple Targets.

I am thinking about trying the new bulb for the 6D in a 9.6 volt 3D body, guessing it's the same reflector and it can handle the heat...can someone verify this to be the case? I already have a glass lens (magcharger lens) in the 3D body, but can't help but think the bulb will ( Xenon ) get quite a bit hotter than the stock 3D mag bulb or the Xenon Radio shack Xpr103 thats in there now. Glad Maglite put the bulbs out anyway...can someone "enlighten" me on the reflector's heat limits. Thanks for any thoughts in advance....:help:

AtomicX said:

. . . can someone "enlighten" me on the reflector's heat limits. . . .

Click to expand...

My tests have found that anything past about 10 watts will cause the plastic reflector to start to bubble if the light is run continuously for 10 minutes or so. That's about an Amp for a 9.6v bulb. Although not sure, I doubt that any of the stock bulbs run that hot.

Paul

It could be that they've really replaced their crappy lamps?? If you notice the run times as well it used to be around 10 hours for the 6C cell but now they only quote 5 hours.

Actually, their lamps aren't that crappy at all. In fact, I think they are made by Welch Allyn, IIRC. The weak links in a Maglite are the alkaline batteries that cannot maintain voltage/current, and the smooth parabolic reflector, that maximizes throw at the expense of beam quality. I think that the reflector choice is actually a concession to the alkaline battery issue, and max throw makes the light appear more powerful.

witake said:

It could be that they've really replaced their crappy lamps?? If you notice the run times as well it used to be around 10 hours for the 6C cell but now they only quote 5 hours.

Click to expand...

cratz2 said:

I would tend to think that if folks are buying lights based on the claims on the packaging...

Click to expand...

I used the ratings once on the cabelas site. I learned lumens are another way of saying this is a flood light with a dim beam, candle power is a spot light that will blind you, but trust usm lunens is brighter.

Do people actually use Mag lights with stock bulbs? The only one I ever had that worked fairly well was my Mag Charger at 200 Lumens. We probably have 100 stock bulbs. They by the way have NOT magically doubled in output. We just use more VOLTAGE. They do get bright then. But only for 30 seconds.....