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Thread: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

  1. #1
    *Flashaholic* JonSidneyB's Avatar
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    Default CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    Hello,

    I have questions about product liablity. Before we plunk down money on product liability insurance, I would like to know what I need to consider going into this.

    I think this might be a little more complicated than some cases but I could be wrong.

    I think this is more complicated as I plan on covering several different things across several borders.

    Do any of you have a moment for me to bend your ear.


    Thanks
    Jon
    The Creator of the protected RCR123

  2. #2
    *Flashaholic* JonSidneyB's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    attornies must all be at work now.

    The Creator of the protected RCR123

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    Flashaholic* powernoodle's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    In all honesty, the only good advice you will get from a lawyer on the internet is to go talk to a lawyer in person. Advice is so fact-specific, and products liability is so complicated a field, especially when you throw in some international law to spice it up, that I bet you won't get what you are looking for here.

    Plus, lawyers generally are reluctant to speak about legal matters on the internet because someone could actually act upon the advice, get screwed, and then sue the lawyer. Same reason that a doc won't give you a diagnosis over the internet. You may not be looking for actual legal advice in this thread, but anything that remotely smells like it will scare me away. Maybe others will be more forthcoming.

    I will go so far as to say that the next time I buy some Pilas, it will be from JSB - in part because you sent me some free springs a few weeks ago.

    best regards

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    Flashaholic* nethiker's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    Hi Jon,

    You may give SCORE a try. This is a non-profit organization of volunteers with business experience who want to help others be successful in business.

    Greg

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    *Flashaholic* JonSidneyB's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    I don't have a pending legal issue.
    I am trying to figure out how to do several things and I am trying to learn how the liability falls and get those things covered by liability insurance.
    If I don't figure out how the liablity falls, I might cover things that don't need to be covered and leave open the once that do.

    Thanks
    Jon
    The Creator of the protected RCR123

  6. #6
    *Flashaholic* JonSidneyB's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    Ok, I am doing this the correct way,

    I called a lawfirm that deals with product liability and made an appointment to cover my questions and I will be happy to pay the fee to get put in the right direction.

    I also realized that I should pay for all legal advice anyway...its the right thing to do.
    Last edited by JonSidneyB; 12-05-2005 at 03:17 PM.
    The Creator of the protected RCR123

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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    Also look at what your suppliers and competitors are doing.

    And, if you are selling a product that is covered by UL/CSA or to Europe (everything is covered by CE), having one or more of those registrations/listings for your product(s) is a very good place to start the basis of a defense (in case any is ever needed). With traceability back to the manufacturer (UL tear tags / certs in files with PO #, etc.).

    Also looking as to where you incorporate (Delaware, Nevada, vs California) can also have a marked influence on your ability to have a successful defense or even avoiding a suit in the first place (again, if one is ever needed).

    Keeping your business separate from your personal assets is also important. This will help you to walk away from your business in case the worst ever happened, without losing your home, etc.

    You probably have done much of the stuff above and I am probably being repetitive--but that was my job as an engineer to remind my folks of the basics.

    Good Luck!
    -Bill

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    *Flashaholic* JonSidneyB's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    Like I said,

    I am doing many things and some projects are unrelated to each other.

    On one of the projects, I want to set it up so that I am the one to be sued.
    I am not looking to get sued and do not want to be sued, but I want to make it easier for some others. If a lawsuit occurs, I want to make it so that I am the target. It is kind of complicated as to what I am doing but you will understand if I execute my plan. This part of my plan is not about the indium smart.
    The Creator of the protected RCR123

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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    Generally, people sue where the money is... So if you get yourself a large liability insurance policy--that will attract the most "flies".

    If there are others involved (suppliers, designers, manufacturers, etc.), but not part of your company, then having them "named" on the policy would probably help protect them too.

    Sounds like you are a very nice gentleman JSB.

    -Bill

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    Flashaholic* Pydpiper's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    Quote Originally Posted by JonSidneyB
    I also realized that I should pay for all legal advice anyway...its the right thing to do.
    Jon, I have seen many professions pass by here on CPF, and each has lent their knowledge to the perceived communty here, if we all had to pay for the advice given to us it would get pretty quiet. Getting paid for your knowledge is always a good thing, but there is nothing wrong with throwing a bone every now and then too..
    I love when I bump into Doctors in a social enviroment, as soon as they say they are a Doctor I say "You are? Great, I have this rash right here that has been bugging me.." Then point to an odd area, They never know how to act after that. The law is a funny thing, and it varys so vastly, it would be a hard topic to cover unless the guy or gal happend to have their practice in your town. No disrespect to anyone here but in the world of the law and those who practice it money is the bottom line.
    Good luck Jon, I wish you the best of success. Whatever it is you are cooking up, I'll take two.
    Just one more light and my collection is complete! Ok, maybe two..

  11. #11
    *Flashaholic* JonSidneyB's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    Ok,

    I will spill a little.

    I am going to get lots of exposure soon. I want to be able to do good with this upcoming exposure.

    I want to find away to take some cpf builders and set it up so that these lights get much exposure and make it so they can be sold in stores.

    There are many hurdles to do this the right way. I want to help mainstream some CPF creations.

    It will be very expensive and carry much risk but its what I want to do.

    There will be large cost but that will be balanced by economies of scale.

    We all know its far cheaper to make runs of 1000 lights then 200 lights.

    I want to grow the market, get these things seen where they have not been seen before. Get the production numbers up and take on the risks.

    Its hard for someone with a single cottage industry product to break out. You need certifications, upc registration, you need coverage that cost money, you might have patents for some builders that cost money and runs of 300 are so difficult to make cost effective.

    There is a learning curve to find out what all needs to be done and the expence to make legit is more than most people have a clue about.
    Last edited by JonSidneyB; 12-05-2005 at 06:33 PM.
    The Creator of the protected RCR123

  12. #12
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    Kiessling's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    John ... sounds awesome. And excessively risky.
    You really want to go through with this?
    bernie
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
    - paulr


    It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
    My shoes are too tight. But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

  13. #13
    *Flashaholic* JonSidneyB's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    Hi Bernie

    I like the idea of doing things to contribute.

    It would be nice to find a way to get the creators of new ideas to be able to do more. If they have larger markets and have all the legal I's dotted and T's crossed, they can have bigger markets without rasing prices while making more for themselves in the end. That will allow them to create more.

    If this is not eventually done. Those that are not part of CPF and do not care about CPF will come in and take ideas from here and run with them. CPF and CPF designers should be the ones that benifit.

    What got me thinking was a conversation I had with an led light company I had some time ago. The despised CPF but at the same time thought is was good to take knowledge from this place. Now we can't stop outsiders from taking knowledge, I thought that CPF builders should also have products out there in the rest of the world, not just the guys that copy them.

    If I listed all the things I would like to do, it would take a really really big post but this is one of them.

    I want to see CPF creations next to fine watches and with MonteBlanc pens and in jewlery stores as well as sporting goods stores.
    Last edited by JonSidneyB; 12-05-2005 at 06:42 PM.
    The Creator of the protected RCR123

  14. #14
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    Kiessling's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    This is very noble of you Jon, but don't you think the idea might consume you and your business in the end? This is a very very big plan IMHO ... not that I'd be against it of course ... but I'd really hate to see you fail!

    bernie
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
    - paulr


    It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
    My shoes are too tight. But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

  15. #15
    *Flashaholic* JonSidneyB's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    Hi Bernie,

    I have always believed that it is better to do good than to make good. If you can do both it is fantastic.

    I got rechargable 123s created, that was good but I lost huge on it. I regret part of it but I don't regret that they exist now.

    Sometimes you just have to take chances. If I make alot from it, I will share with CPF, If I fail, I fail.

    If I get CPF behind me on this however, I can't see how I can fail.
    The Creator of the protected RCR123

  16. #16
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    Problem is ... CPF is already behing its modders and creators. You'd need to find new non-flashaholic markets for these horribly expensive (for non-believers) lights in larger numbers ... and this will be expensive and maybe futile, and there would be the risk of a lot of those costly things sitting on shelves all alone in a dark room, waiting to be sold.
    bernie

    P.S.: don't get me wrong ... I like the idea very much, but I have serious doubts if this can be made profitable
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
    - paulr


    It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
    My shoes are too tight. But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

  17. #17
    *Flashaholic* JonSidneyB's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    I know CPF is behind them.

    But there are many flashaholics that do not know they are flashaholics yet.

    I will seek them out at the shotshow...with a booth.
    I will find that at functional art shows.
    I will find them at the national cavers confernce.
    I will ask the guy with a 500.00 ink pen why he has a 10.00 flashlight.
    I will ask the guy with a 1000.00 watch why he has a 15.00 flashlight.

    I will seek out and find the unknown flashaholic even if he does not know he has the interest yet.
    The Creator of the protected RCR123

  18. #18

    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    That is a really exciting idea.

    I hope you can stave off the opportunists who will wait for you to take the risk of introducing innovations to the market, then steal your successful ideas to make cheap knockoffs.

    I've always wondered what McGizmo would do if somebody tried to introduce a modular "Tav" flashlight system... I've heard more than one flashlight company badmouthed on CPF because of lawsuits filed over intellectual property, but sometimes you have to protect your turf.

    I hope you succeed. You've earned it.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* snakebite's Avatar
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    Default Re: CPFer Attornies, can I ask you a question

    Quote Originally Posted by Hookd_On_Photons
    That is a really exciting idea.

    I hope you can stave off the opportunists who will wait for you to take the risk of introducing innovations to the market, then steal your successful ideas to make cheap knockoffs.

    I've always wondered what McGizmo would do if somebody tried to introduce a modular "Tav" flashlight system... I've heard more than one flashlight company badmouthed on CPF because of lawsuits filed over intellectual property, but sometimes you have to protect your turf.

    I hope you succeed. You've earned it.
    modular flashlights are hardly a new thing.
    and the faster you are to bring a new product to market and saturate the market the better.leave the copycats in the dust picking up the scraps as you introduce the next product or improvement.

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