Rechargeables in a Night-ops Gladius

Hello.

I have done extensive research on hundreds of flashlights, and have decided that the Gladius is the one to get. However, on the night-ops website, http://www.night-ops.com/ it says that the Gladius does not support rechargeables. I sent an email to them for more information, and they told me the following:

1) The circuit limit of the light is 7V. The light takes two CR123As and all rechargeables of this type are 3.7V each-- two of them would go over this maximum limit by .4V.

2) My warranty is void as soon as I pop any pair of rechargeables into the light.

So, I have a couple questions for you:

1) What will overloading the circuit do? Will the light fry itself right away, would it shorten the lifespan, etc?

2) Letting the batteries cool after recharging will lower the voltage slightly; would this be enough to bring them down to 3.5V or below?

Thank you very much.

-Josh

I've been using these in my Gladius for the last week :http://e-lectronics.net/catalog/cr123a-rechargeable-600mah-with-p-164.html

They are a little tight - have to shake them back out - not very hard.
They seem to work well - no low power blink either.
I bought the charger and 4 batteries for $35 with shipping.

You can use a Pila 168s rechargeable Lithium-ion in it (if it fits diameter-wise.). It is rated at 3.7 volts and about 4.2 volts when fully charged. It is the same length as two SF123 lithiums and very slightly larger diameter. Since the Gladius is probably regulated, it won't care about the decrease in supply voltage and have no over-voltage problems.

socom1970 said:

You can use a Pila 168s rechargeable Lithium-ion in it (if it fits diameter-wise.). It is rated at 3.7 volts and about 4.2 volts when fully charged. It is the same length as two SF123 lithiums and very slightly larger diameter. Since the Gladius is probably regulated, it won't care about the decrease in supply voltage and have no over-voltage problems.

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If you are running it constant on, you will get the low power blink on this light using the Pila cell. Some might find that annoying.

The Gladius is an ideal light to run off of disposable cells as its design allows you to constantly conserve battery life.

I used the Li-Ion 17670 cells that AW sells. The low-batt indicator will blink, but that was never an inconvenience to me. Function was otherwise the same. The cell (you only use one) is 4.2 V off the charger.

I would not use any combination that goes over the rated voltage of the light.

Scott

Thanks, everybody.

I'm most interested in John's post, because I think the flickering of the light would be distracting. so, John- about how long do these cells last in the light? Does the low battery flashing start sooner than with disposable cells, or after a reasonable amount of time?

Thanks again,

-Josh

Then you got those nice 3.0 volt recharables (Mark CMs, check Electronics section of forum. JSBurly has some too.)

I haven't tried to run them down. I've just been using the light when I walk my dogs at night. I'd say that they have about 30 minutes on them so far. They haven't seemed to get any dimmer than when I started and no flicker yet.

I had planned on discussing my findings with Ken Goode before I posted this, but I have not been able to reach him for some weeks. So...

DON'T use EDIT {two common protected or un-protected R123A Li-Ion rechargeables} EDIT in your Gladius. The fully charged voltage of these can be as much as 4.25V each, or 8.5V total. Voltage above 8V will likely kill your Gladius, in short order.

I have been experimenting with "regulated 3.0V" R123A cells by Powerizer, from Batteryspace:
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1641
The cells require some finite load current to go into regulation. From a full charge (Measuring 4.17V each with a 10 MOhm DMM) these cells regulate down about 80mV, per uA of current. (They approach 3.4 volts as the current goes into the 10uA range, with a full charge) The 5 Gladius lights I have tried (including SN's 00047X and 0066XX) average about 8-9.5 uA of standby current, while not illuminated. This current allowed the cells to regulate down to about 3.4V per cell, or 6.8V total maximum, which is within the safe operating range of the Gladius. Normal operating current will of course allow the cells to regulate fully, normally between 2.9V and 3.2 V per cell depending on Gladius' current draw and the batteries' state of charge.

I now have dozens of charges on these cells, and about 200 hours mixed operation (including elevated and below zero temps) with the two Gladius SNs mentioned above. The match has only one flaw: The lowest 2-3 light dimmer settings sometimes have some flicker (a candle effect) as the batteries voltage regulation circuitry interacts with the Gladius' current regulation. This interaction EDIT {often} EDIT goes away after the first 30% of the battery charge is used. Runtime at full brightness is over 40 minutes.

Gladius with SNs 6000 & above have a larger tube inside diameter, and these cells will drop in loosely. Earlier SNs will work, but the fit is snug and the cells sometimes have to be tapped out by slapping the open end sharply on the palm of my hand. Only once have I had to use a cutting board (or similar semi-hard surface) to get the cells out.

More Gladius news: SNs 6000& up also have: A pretty HA-III, AR15-like finish; Better packing to prevent the light from buffing the manual, and keep the batteries in place during shipment; And 4 different warnings about the tailcap and battery changes, including a nice sticky decal on the tailcap itself. I am still researching some other changes I THINK I see. Comments on these will wait for confirmation from the Night-Ops folks.

I am also using these batteries on my KL4 head (ONLY WITH a Mc2E switch, until I verify a capacitive input stage on the regulator) with the L4 & E2 bodies, though the combination is less desirable than a single protected AW 17650, with one of his magnets.

These protected, regulated batteries (and their special charger) seem a solid solution for guilt-free lumens in my favorite tactical lights.

I've been using a Pila 168s with the pila wrapper taken off (otherwise they are a very tight fit and hard to get out) in my gladius as my primary duty light since April.

Full brightness for over an hour with a fully charged pila.

Yes you do get the double low voltage flash which is a bit of a PITA but not so much of a PITA as buying loads of 123a's
A lot of my torch use is in short burts so most of the time it doesnt even get to flash anyway.

joshua5732 said:

2) Letting the batteries cool after recharging will lower the voltage slightly; would this be enough to bring them down to 3.5V or below?

Thank you very much.

-Josh

Click to expand...

Get a batt meter or multimeter if you want to mess with rechargeable batts. As reported by several people including myself, Li-ons "sitting around" don't significantly reduce voltage at all.

They are around 4.2 v fresh from charger and I see some people happily letting them sit for 3-5 days, thinking it will drop to 3.6v so that they can power whatever 7v flashlight.

Some of us have tested batts that have been sitting for 2 months to up to 1 year. The drop can be as little as 0.05v or less. My batts sitting around for 2 months are still at 4.12v.

Thanks to all you guys.

I decided to go ahead and buy those 680 mAh 3V ones from batteryspace. Those were cheap, and provide a resonable amount of power. I got 4 batteries, a charger, and 3-day shipping for about $36.

Thanks again,

-Josh

Slightly reduced brightness and the low battery flash with the AW protected 17670 as measured with a light meter...

Lips,

How much was the brightness reduced? Are these the blue batts or the newer ones?

Scott

I think the soon to be release lithium Iron phosphate ( LiFePO4 ) R123 should be a good candidate to be used in the Gladius. With a nominal voltage of 3.2V ( 3.4V off charger ), these cells should be safe in any luxeon flashlight. For those who have no idea of what is LiFePO4 cells, please see here. These phosphate cathode cells are considered to be the next generation LiIon cells with extremely good thermal safety. I have obtained some samples and they ran good with all my luxeon lights and some incan lights ( killed my E2E LA on 2 cells after about 2 minutes :scowl: ). They can be safely discharged to 2.0V and took some serious abuse :rock:

beezaur said:

Lips,

How much was the brightness reduced? Are these the blue batts or the newer ones?

Scott

Click to expand...

About 5% not visible to my eye


Good news AW! :rock:

AW said:

I think the soon to be release lithium Iron phosphate ( LiFePO4 ) R123 should be a good candidate to be used in the Gladius. With a nominal voltage of 3.2V ( 3.4V off charger ), these cells should be safe in any luxeon flashlight. For those who have no idea of what is LiFePO4 cells, please see here. These phosphate cathode cells are considered to be the next generation LiIon cells with extremely good thermal safety. I have obtained some samples and they ran good with all my luxeon lights and some incan lights ( killed my E2E LA on 2 cells after about 2 minutes :scowl: ). They can be safely discharged to 2.0V and took some serious abuse :rock:

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good to hear you are chasing some down. have you done discharge tests to see what capacity is?

according to spec sheet MAH is quite a bit lower than std li-ion cells. sure would be sweet to stick 6x in surefire M6

lack of support for rechargeables in Gladius is one weakness of this light. then again, in a tactical situation. I would go with new CR123 everytime.

AW said:

I think the soon to be release lithium Iron phosphate ( LiFePO4 ) R123 should be a good candidate to be used in the Gladius. With a nominal voltage of 3.2V ( 3.4V off charger ), these cells should be safe in any luxeon flashlight. For those who have no idea of what is LiFePO4 cells, please see here. These phosphate cathode cells are considered to be the next generation LiIon cells with extremely good thermal safety. I have obtained some samples and they ran good with all my luxeon lights and some incan lights ( killed my E2E LA on 2 cells after about 2 minutes :scowl: ). They can be safely discharged to 2.0V and took some serious abuse :rock:

Click to expand...

So the Saphion's are finally going to be available to consumers? The only drawback I see with them is they are inherently lower capacity and energy. An 18650 Li-Ion has more mAH than the same size LiFePo4. However, for the safety they provide, they are unbeatable.

Thanks, AW, for keeping us on the cutting edge of battery technology. Your efforts are appreciated!