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Thread: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

  1. #1
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    Default Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Just got my mitts on a 8AA Double Barrel Eveready. Any ideas what to do with it [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    I remember some talks about converting to LED or using one barrel to hold uranium or something like that

    TIA

    Ax

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by axolotls:
    Just got my mitts on a 8AA Double Barrel Eveready. Any ideas what to do with it [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    I remember some talks about converting to LED or using one barrel to hold uranium or something like that

    TIA

    Ax
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    First, look at the bulb. If it has a white ceramic(?) base on it, I'd leave it alone, because that bulb was put in the earlier production unit and is supposed to be quite a it more powerful than the last production units. (per Ike from Welch Allen).
    Otherwise, a couple of resourceful CPFers have done some impressive mods with Nichia 5600 LEDS. Search "go, go, gadget" et.al.

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    Flashaholic* bigcozy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Did that come from me via traser trade? If it did, sorry about the shipping problem, I assumed it got sent before the holdays.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Yup. There you are! I got it yesterday. Don't worry about the delay. It's a pretty neat flashlight. Now let's see what I can do with it [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Here's what I'm going to try with the DB 8AA I'm buying from Bushman.

    Underwater Kinetics has several Hi Amperage halogen bulbs with the correct T-2 1/4 size and bulb wedge configuration.

    Attempt # 1: Try to use serial / parallel setup without modification. I'll try an Underwater Kinetics 18 Watt D4r / UK400R bulb which is designed for a four cell rechargeable dive light. Assuming that each Nimh cell puts out 1.1 volts that will draw roughly 2.1 amps. It should run 40 minutes or so.

    Attempt #2: If the 18 Watts are too much for the reflector or batteries I'll rewire to serial and use a 14 Watt UKE 45801 bulb that's designed for several of UKE's 8 cell rechargeables. This should reduce amperage to 1.6 amps which I know the batteries can handle.

    Both of these bulbs should have a good chance of working satisfactorily. Aragorn's DB 6AA / p91 mod draws (or is trying to draw) 2.35 amps according to Brock's flashlight page.

    Attempt # 3 would be to stay in Parallel and use the 6.6 Watt UKE 4-cell rechargeable halogen bulb. Assuming voltage would run at 1.2 per cell, this should put create a draw of of only .7 amps: double that of the OEM bulb.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    best of luck lemlux... its on the way!!

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    It works Great! I've only had the guts to leave it on for five minutes at a time, but each time I checked the reflector it showed no visible deterioration.

    The Energizer DB 8AA running in stock serial / parallel configuration loaded with 8 AA Nimh's drives the UKE 44807 18 watt halogen bulb designed for 4 rechargeable D cells in UKE diving lamps. The form fit of the T-2 1/4 bi pin 18 watt bulb is identical to the stock 3.4 watt Xenon bulb. The focus function is thus, identical. The $16.95 bulb cost at the dive shop is 3/4 the price of a typical Surefire lamp assembly.

    The bulb is rated at 18 watts at an unstated but presumed 4.8 volts with 4 D cells. It is probably running at about 4.4 volts and generating more than 16 watts while pulling about 1.9 amps from each battery. I'm still a little scared of potentially destructive testing, so I'll only guess that the 1800 mah cells should last for 45 to 50 minutes per charge..

    According to Craig's site, the DB head is "virtually indestructible" and made from G.E. Xenoy PolyCarbonate. The reflector is a a thick plastic material that feels more like a hard rubber comb than like the the typically rigid plastic reflector. It may last longer than I fear with this sort of heat load.

    How bright is it? Well, it doesn't look as nice or bright as an unadjustable UKE 1200 with 8 D cells and an 8 cell 18 watt rechargeable bulb. This dive light has a wide Sure-fire HOLA like pattern from a textured reflector.

    On the other hand, the faceted 1 3/4" adjustable reflector of the DB 8AA has a much more pleasant beam than my Mags.

    Relative brightness?

    My Surefire 8X is rated at 110 lumens. The battery is 3.7 volts and Brock says the bulb operates at 7.3 Watts.

    My Mag 4C with a 1.7 amp Krypton Star Carley lamp on Radio Shack 3000 mah Nimhs. Lets assume that this generates 140 lumens on Nimh C's as opposed to Nicad D's, 10 lumens less than Carley specs the lamp. Let's also assume that this lamp operates at 4.6 volts * 1.7 amps = 7.8 watts. The optimized Mag 4C clearly operates more brightly than my SF 8X. The whiteness of these two lights doesn't differ much.

    The brightness and the whiteness of the DB 8AA operating a t 16+ Watts clearly blows away my 140 lumen Rechargeable Carley Mag 4C. If a 14.6 watt P91 assembly generates 200 Lumens with 3 * 123 cells, this light is probably in the 225 to 260 lumen range as a reasonably light,comfortable hand held rechargeable which is maybe 1/2" longer than a Mag 4C..

    The DB 8AA 1800 mah hour cells carry 62% more current than the Ultra Stinger's 5 Sub C 1800 Mah hour pack and should run for about the same time as the 10 Watt Ultra Stinger because it's wattage is about 60% to 65% higher than an Ultra Stinger.

    When Aragorn puts the P91 in my DB 6AA it should drive the LA about 4% to 7% harder than the 3 cell Surefires. It should generate about 210 to 215 lumens while drawing 2.35 amps and generating a little over 15 Watts. The run time should be 20% to 25% shorter than the run time on DB 8AA. The P91 fixed Beam is, of course, much more gratifying than the adjustable DB 8AA beam. What a delight to be able to choose between the two alternatives which will combine for 1 1/2 + hours of run time between charges.

    I do have a digital camera. After I receive my p91 and it finishes its round trip to Aragorn I will post comparable E2, 8X, DB 6AA P91 and DB 8AA UKE 18W beam pictures. At least I'll send the photo files to someone who knows how to post them effetively.

    This makes me feel better in the face of my continuing education on the current draw limitations of Lithium 3.6 V AA cells. Brock effectively kneed me to the groin when I was down when a read an earlier post of his I hadn't previously seen. Brock's post disclosed that 3.6 V Lithium AA cells by at least some manufacturers were fat enough not to fit in certain flashlights like the Infinity.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Mike:

    The DB 8AA just arrived. I can't wait to get home tonight.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* Klaus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Lemlux,

    look at brightguy or so for the UKE LAs - seems your 16.95 at the diveshop is a rip-off compared to the 6.25 Brightguy charges for the 18W LA.

    Klaus

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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Klaus:

    It didn't occur to me to search for UKE bulbs on line for some reason, although that's where I go for SF, Carley and other high current PR bulbs. I guess the thrill of the hunt when UKE's site made me aware of the existance of the bulb made me seek instant gratification at the local dive shop even though I had to wait for the flashlight.

    Now I know where to go at bulb replacement time thanks to you.

    Anyone who can find a DB 8AA can relatively cheaply load and operate a very nice, bright impact light.

    Maybe our Australian brethren can be persuaded to assemble and ship some DB 8AA's to interested members in other locales.

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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lemlux:
    My Mag 4C with a 1.7 amp Krypton Star Carley lamp on Radio Shack 3000 mah Nimhs<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Lemlux, how long a runtime do you get with that setup?


    Greetings,
    Velcro

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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Velcro:

    I haven't tested how long the Mag 4C with the Carley KSR PR 1.7 will run, but simple division tempered with a little conservatism suggests it should run for about 90 minutes with the 3000 mah battery.

    I've seen Nimh C's on line with capacities of up to 4500 mah which should push 150 minutes.

    I've seen Nimh D's on line with capacities of up to 8500 mah which should push 4 1/2 hours if your personal flashlight bult vs. run time tradeoff preference is that heavily weighted toward run time.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    re last post; "bult" should say bulk. Sorry for the confusion.

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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    FYI: you can edit your own posts to correct speling misteaks by clicking the little icon above the relavent post.

    [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vcal:
    First, look at the bulb. If it has a white ceramic(?) base on it, I'd leave it alone, because that bulb was put in the earlier production unit and is supposed to be quite a it more powerful than the last production units<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Darn!! I just checked mine, and it has the newer suck-ass bi-pin bulb in it with no base. Just plugs into a pair of holes. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

    It's still bright though - it kicks the can off my 4-AA double barrel.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>First, look at the bulb. If it has a white ceramic(?) base on it, I'd leave it alone, because that bulb was put in the earlier<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Does anyone actually have a DB with this bulb configuration? Has anyone tried ordering the bulb from WA?

    According to Energizer and WA the 8AA DB T2-3 bulb puts out 79.2 and 81 lumens respectively.

    But my Scorpion which which supposedly puts out around 60 lumens is slightly brighter than the 8AA DB. Also doesn't it seem a little strange that the 3.85watt bulb can put out 33% more light than a 6watt bulb.

    Its still quite a nice light and is infinitely cheaper to run than my Scorpion but it seems like Energizer has been telling lies!!!!
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Maybe our Australian brethren can be persuaded to assemble and ship some DB 8AA's to interested members in other locales. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If you guys are really desperate I can go out for a hunt one afternoon however the price may range from US$12-25. I'm sure I can find something to swap with! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    I've just sent a 8AA DB to the US which took around 5 business days to ship via uninsured Air Mail. I believe it cost around US$13. Of course if I send a couple of units, it'll end up being cheaper per unit.

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* Klaus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Someguy,

    the 8AA at 5,5V 700ma is underdriven after seconds using Alkalines.

    Look at Other thread on DB mods where I talked about the bulbs and also linked to an older thread.

    Craig - the white plastic are the new (bad?) ones - the ones without the plastic are the nice WA ones - trust me [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    Klaus

  18. #18

    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Yup I saw your other post. However I doubt the specifications Energizer published are completely accurate as it just seems a little too spectacular. Like your previous posts, I too agree that the 8AA bulb is too high speced.

    About the white ceramic base, so what you're saying is that the DB units where the bulb sockets are made of some ceramic material use a brighter WA bulb? Is that correct?

    If so, wouldn't it possible to purchase the bulb of WA instead of the dimmer version from Energizer?

    "the 8AA at 5,5V 700ma is underdriven after seconds using Alkalines.".. why do you say that? AA alkalines shouldn't have too much problem delivering 350mA.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* Klaus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Someguy,

    the specs of the bulbs are from WA - interestingly Energizer also calls out only ~ 60lu for the 8AA while the bulb is 80 - see below.

    Nop - all the DB I saw have that white plastic as the bulb holder - I talked about the bulbs - the newer (inferior?) bulbs have a plastic socket - the older (better?) WA bulbs have no socket but just glass and pins.

    Problem with WA is that they only are used to sell big quantities to OEMs - all the guys who tried so far seem to have had problems - my experience with WA distributors in europe are lets say ** unsatisfying ** too - a guy from Norway seemed to have had more luck but i don´t know how it worked out for him in real life.

    No prob with 350ma as you say - but they won´t do so at 5,5V - the voltage will drop lower than that I suppose - I personally only tested with NiMhs and with 4AA/AAA setups as I think the 8AA is too bulky - the 6AA is another story but seems to be hard to find - what is the pricing in Australia ? If there are some at a good discount and shipping is not too high it might be interesting for me to get one from you.

    Maybe the reason Energizer speced the light at 60 while the bulb is 80 (at 5,5V) might be that they also saw that the voltage drop is there and carefully went lower .....

    Klaus


    Klaus

  20. #20

    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    OK I don't want to sound too dumb but what do you mean by a plastic socket on the bulb? I'm still trying to determine what exactly distinguishes the "older" and "newer" bulbs.

    The bulb on my 8AA DB is just glass with 2 pins and its definately not brighter than my Scorpion. I'm pretty sure that Craig would have the same bulb.

    "No prob with 350ma as you say - but they won´t do so at 5,5V ".. While I don't have a multimeter to verify this, I the batteries would be able to maintain a voltage of around 1.35v each, at least for a half a minute or so.

    I've seen two 6AAs left at Target for A$30 (around US$16). Shipping for a 1Kg package to Germany costs A$29.50, A$22.00 and A$17.00 for Air Mail, Economy Air and Sea Mail respectively.

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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Someguy:

    I haven't seen the DB white plastic based bulb, but I do have a flat bottomed Streamlight 3C bulb with the same pin width as the DB series. The Streamlight base is too wide to fit in the DB, however.

    I imagine the white base may look like a smaller diameter version of the Streamlight bulbs.

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* Klaus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Someguy,

    you have the "old" WA bulb - just imagine the "new" ones have the lower part of the bulb covered in plastic. Will try to find a pic.

    OK here we go:



    old WA bulb (old 4AAA, 6AA, 8AA)



    new "plastic" bulb (new 4AA, 4AAA)

    And try to measure the voltage drop - I would suspect the AA cells NOT do give you 5,5V for more than a short moment - Lithium AAs would do so I think .....

    Good price on the 6AA - but the shipping is high - could you measure the 6AA´s weight WITHOUT the Alkalines going with it - that way you would keep the cells and we possibly save quite a bit on the freight ?? The economic air sounds good - did you check with your local post office - usually cheaper than freight forwarders for such items. I just measured a DB 4AA without cells to be around 200 gramm - so maybe the 6AA might be at 250 gramm which would put it in a quite lower shipping price range can you check that ?

    TIA

    Klaus


    Klaus

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Hi lemlux,
    I just bought a steamlite 4AA, and the size of the bulb is same as the 3C bulb, many idea comes up..

    #1 I found some 5mm pin bulb which is 6V and 10W , which is too much current for 4AA, any idea if 6V and 5W works for 4AA?
    #2 may be I try scorpion bulb 1st
    #3 may be use 4 1.2V recharge and use the 3C bulb
    ... any suggestion
    Thanks

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Snake:

    Streamlight's chief engineer advised me that the 3C bulb was a Xenon bulb drawing .70 amps. OEM's often choose a draw of .70 amps as a max for alkaline C's and .85 amps as a max for alkaline D's. I don't remember if what voltage the lamps were for. His email is on my work computer.

    OEM's rarely go above 0.50 A drain on AA bulbs designed for Alkaline. The Mag 2AA comes stock at 0.30 A and upgrade bulbs I'm aware of are 0.45 A (Nexstar) and 0.43 A (Radio Shack)The PT40's come with an alkaline 4.8 V 0.50 amp HPR. The PT Surge comes in serial /parallel so the 1.10 A bulb only draws .55 A per cell.

    The Streamlight 3C bulb should run brighter in the 4AA than in the 3C but will have a shorter life before burnout. If you already have both, I would use the 3C bulb in the 4AA with Nimh's.

    I caution you, however, that similiar threads on overdriving 3 cell bulbs in the PT40 contained several posts by members who said that overdriven 3 cell Xenon bulbs were particularly prone to die young in the PT40 with Nimh's. I guess this is because Xenon bulbs operate at rather high temperatures.

    Around here, Streamlight 3C bulbs retail for $5.50 each, so the risk is not painless.

    I have a Streamlight Pro Polymer 2AA flashlight and spare bulb. The 2AA bulb looks like a baby 3C bulb. The pin separation is the same as Mag 2AA's, but the pins are much shorter. I can't get it to light up in a Mag 2AA.

    I have had very good luck using bulbs of this .70 A drain with 4 Nimh AA's in various lights. Heat shouldn't be a problem for the flashlight, but it may be for the bulb.

    Streamlight rates the .70 A 3C bulb at 5.5 hours of continuous operation, and the 4 AA bulb at 4 hours of continuous operation. My guesstimate is that the 4 AA bulb is in the range of .40 to .45 A and that the 3C bulb will probably generate double the lumens of the 4AA bulb in the 4AA.

    The Streamlight 4AA costs &gt; $20 locally and the PT40 can be bought for $12.99 plus shipping at Texas Tactical. Also, the Streamlight 4AA probably has as tight a beam as does my 2AA. You probably won't get much more reach on a 4AA flashlight than you will on a Streamlight 4AA with the 3C bulb and Nimh's.

    As I remember, the pin separation on my Scorpion is closer to that of the 2AA bulb than it is to the 3C bulb. I think fit will be a problem.

    The 1.1 A Scorpion bulb drops the amperage in the Scorpion to &lt; 5 volts in the Scorpion. The problem with the 4AA and the Scorpion bulb is that voltage will probably drop all the way to 4.4 V, so you'd be underdriving the bulb if you can get it to fit.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Many THANKS ! LEMLUX
    thanks for your detail analysis!
    let me find out what is available on the street 1st.. as the 3C bulb cost HKD70 which is USD8.9 , if I found a 6V 5W (5mm pinwidth) bi-pin bulb I will try to run it with L91 Lithium.

    yes! the beam is very narrow for steamlite 4AA and with some rings as Maglight. but the bulb can pull out a bit to adjust the beam patten.
    Again Many Thanks and have a nice weekend
    bye

  26. #26

    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Ahhh thanks Klaus. For some reason I kept thinking that I had the newer and dimmer Energizer bulbs. The WA bulb is definately the one I have.

    So all 6AA and 8AA DBs use the WA bulbs. The original 4AAA (seperate tailcap version) would most probably used the WA version as well.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Snake

    My pleasure.

    I keep forgetting that some of you guys in HK report that Lithium batteries are dirt cheap over there. (Or was that just the 123s?)

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lemlux:
    Velcro:

    I haven't tested how long the Mag 4C with the Carley KSR PR 1.7 will run, but simple division tempered with a little conservatism suggests it should run for about 90 minutes with the 3000 mah battery.

    I've seen Nimh C's on line with capacities of up to 4500 mah which should push 150 minutes.

    I've seen Nimh D's on line with capacities of up to 8500 mah which should push 4 1/2 hours if your personal flashlight bult vs. run time tradeoff preference is that heavily weighted toward run time.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Lemlux, thanks. Where have you seen those 8500 mah D Nimh's? I thought 8000 was currently the highest.


    Greetings,
    Velcro

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Velcro:

    Look for items including #10779 for a set of 4 8500 mAh NEXCELL D NiMh's selling for $51.98 at www.only batteries.com

    Everybody:

    Allow me to copy my recent post on the battery thread pertaining to 3AA serial battery packs made in a D cell replacement size:.

    posted 04-19-2002 04:37 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Klaus & Silviron:
    Thanks, guys.

    I could mod the DB 8AA's to run either the 18W or 14 Watt UKE bulbs I'm using now or run a P91 mod that should run for about 75 minutes on these 3000 mAh batteries or 100 minutes on new 4000 mAh batteries (the P91 draws 2.35 amps according to Brock.)

    BTW, Aragorn has just come up with a clever mod that will put a switch next to the bulb on a DB bulb / switch assembly that will toggle between serial and parallel. On the DB 8AA I could switch back and forth between running UKE 4 and 8 cell rechargable dive light bulbs with 8 AA Nimhs and running a long-run P91 in serial with 6 4/5 A cells. Hows that for flexibility?

    Similarly, the serial/parallel switch on a DB 4AA could allow switching between using either 3 or 6 123's in serial / parallel to run a P90 or P91 or serial for a P61 using 4 AA NiMh's. I've decided to use Quick disconnects fashioned from a Radio Shack DC Accessory Cable #270-026 costing $1.49 to allow different lamp assemblies to be plugged in and out. (These connections are similar to a R/C battery connector.)

    Edit:
    I just ordered a 16 of these batteries (enough for 2 DB 8AA's with allowance for 4 bad cells) and 5 of the battery nesters so I can stay perfectly matched when I use my 3AA D-size battery packs.

    I was wondering how I would charge these odd size 4/5 A batteries. Then it occurred to me that the quick disconnect to the lamp assembly can be rigged to hook up to my MAHA charger without removing the batteries to charge all 6 as a set.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Double Barrel 8AA - Now What?

    Man I just got an 18W UKE lamp and put it in my DB8AA. But my reflector doesn't focus when I turn the bezel because it's very loose. In less than 60 seconds the reflector was burned and the bulb was melted somewhat. I guess it's time for a new reflector. Anybody know where I can find one? I don't think i'll be putting an 18W UKE lamp in there again unless this reflector doesn't touch the lamp like the last one.

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