Form-Factor, Size, Ergonomics

The LED has made possible small pocketable flashlights with usable amount of light.

I find that I am more and more leaning toward single celled lights - just for the sheer convenience of portability - to the point of pocketability in pants/slacks pockets........

Sizes -


Shown here are some of my favorite single cell lights with a typical pocket knife the Victorinox Swiss Army Knife as a reference.

These lights range from single 5mm LED brightness to the level that will rival a 3D Maglite.

Most popular pocket folding knives usually fall into the range of 3.25"-3.75" - the SAK is 3.5" (91mm) right in the middle of the pack. Of course YMMV - depending on the size of one's pockets and how much one is willing to tolerate. A 3.5" pocket knife/flashlight may be too big or too small for others and I accept that - I am merely thinking out loud on my rationalizing of form-factor/size/ergonomics.

Looking at the photo above would suggest that any of those flashlights would fit nicely in pants pocket - but that's kind of one dimensional (OK two )

Because it does not show the thickness of the pocket knife -


A two layered SAK is about the right thickness for comfortable pocket carry - this is not a hard and fast rule - I do realize that there are many (including me occassionally) who can and do carry thicker like 3 or even 4 layers - but two layers on a SAK is what I consider an easy and comfortable carry.

Now looking at the photo with the SAK sideways on one can see that many flashlights now don't look as compact.

Obviously most flashlights are cylindrical and it is going to be hard to equate these to a pocket knife - so let's put this aside for a moment -
other than accept that for me a light should probably fall into the length range of about 3.25"-3.75" - with 3.5" being the one I'm most used to (again YMMV)

Let's take another look -
I've long been enthusiastic for lights that use a single common AA battery - my first LED light other than a Photon was from reading CPF and purchasing a CMG Ultra-G from CountyComm - 1x 5mm LED 1xAA - I liked it so much that I bought a second one.....

Eventually I contracted full Flashaholicsm and among my purchases was the cheapo Dorcy 1AAA . Initially I didn't think too much about the Dorcy 1AAA, other than it was a bargain - since it ran on a single AAA battery which cost as much as an AA - and had about 1/2 the capacity - so economically it costs twice as much to run than an AA version.

The Dorcy 1AAA was also quite a bit larger than a single AAA battery - unlike the small and elegant ArcAAA that was everyone's favorite at the time.

But I started to carry it mainly because of the convenience of the momentary ON tail-switch.

It then became my EDC (EveryDay Carry) displacing my then favorite Ultra-G.

What gives?

The Dorcy is bigger than it needs to be - runs on a battery that's twice as expensive as the AA - it's not that well made and there were quite a lot of initial problems with tail-switches and so on.........

Well I kind of partially figured this out fairly quickly.

It's not just about how small the light can be -
but how well it "fits" - hence my use of form-factor and even "ergonomics"

The Dorcy 1AAA length is about ideal just a bit shorter than 3.5"

The head is wider at about 18mm - but its body is only about 14mm wide/diameter and the tailcap is a bit wider at about 15.5mm. So it fits in my pants pocket really easily and comfortably.

The Dorcy 1AAA also gave me the right amount of light for most of my EDC usage - I even found that it worked well outdoors in the countryside - Dorcy 1AAA Outdoors - this may well be a case of some light is better than none - but it went a little beyond that (please read the thread).

The Dorcy 1AAA fitted well in my hand for use, the momentary on tailswitch worked well and the rubber inserts fell in the right places for me in use.

I also found the Dorcy 1AAA made a nice "mouth-light" because of its size and rubber inserts.

Nevertheless like a truly afflicted flashaholic I was alway on the lookout for the ideal EDC pocket flashlight - especially in a single AA.

With the arrival of the Fenix L1 (P) and even the 0.5w 1AA - AdvancedMart LED-005S - one would have thought I may have found it.......

BUT -


Let's look at the lights with their respective batteries.

Again notice most of them are substantially larger than their battery.

This obviusly stands to reason since one has to allow for the lens and reflector, the LED and driving circuit and the switch..........

So with the two cited (otherwise fabulous) single AA lights I finally got it through my head an ideal EDC pocket light is probably not possible for me on a single AA - even though I love single AA lights!

The AA battery measures approx 14mm diameter - so even with the slimmest of bodies it is unlikely to fall much below about 17mm diameter - the 0.5w 1AA - AdvancedMart LED-005S is already 18mm in diameter and it feels too bulky for an ideal pocket light - yes, of course I can pocket it - but it is not as comfortable as my Dorcy 1AAA either in the pocket or in use......

The Fenix L1 (P) is about 20mm in diameter and feels quite a bit heavier - so even though it is a fabulous light by any reckoning - it fails as my EDC pocket light.......

So that will eliminate the 1x CR123A lights since the diameter of the CR123 is already approx 17mm so we are probably unlikely to see any lights that will be less than about 20mm in diameter - and both lights shown in my photo exceed 25mm!

OK that leaves me with AAA lights -
The Nuwai 0.5w 1AAA (TM-310H) is actually very compact gives good output and reasonably long runtime and the momentary on tailswitch works better than the Dorcy. Its diameter measurements are similar to the Dorcy. However it is a bit too short from ideal at approx 3". So I had to learn to hold the light further up the body (actually using the pocket clip as a locator to put the inside edge of my little finger against) so that my little finger did not block some of the light. But it is still in contention - as I am EDC'ing the thing at home as a trial.

The recent 1AAA 0.5w AdvancedMart LED-050AAA looks good as it is about the same size and shape as the Dorcy 1AAA - quite a bit heavier feeling - better made, better output and beam - so what's not to like?

Unfortunately it's the switch position - it's in the "conventional" position on the side of the body tube just by the head, well positioned to avoid accidental switch on - but I've gotten used to tail operated switches for pocket sized lights and it just cannot displace the Dorcy 1AAA for this single major ergonomic reason and it falls short (pun intended) than the shorter than ideal Nuwai 0.5w 1AAA (TM-310H) (which I like enough that I've ordered a couple more from LED-experimenter's current Sale)

I hope some of all this makes some sense and it doesn't just sound like a long(-winded) ramble.

I am hopeful this thread will spark/initiate some discussion on the question of form-factor, size and ergonomics

Interesting post Vincent. Appreciate the "visual" aid for side-by-side comparison. Goes well with your comments.

[HIJACK]
When Radio Shack Canada brought in their 1st 4AA 1LED light I bought 1 and was impressed with the runtime. During the 4 day blackout of Aug 2003 I had a dead battery in my Solitaire and had to feel my way up 8 floors of stairs. I decided I need an LED pocket light. Google brought me to CPF and Arc. 3+ month backlog. Lurked around CPF some more and came across a thread called Dorcy AAA Outdoors. Thanks for introducing me to the Dorcy AAA. unknownVT you are now known.
[/HIJACK]
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BACK TO ERGONOMICS

AA
I agree the AAsize lights are a bit big for comfortable pocket carry. When I got my new model Xnova 8LED I carried it for 2 weeks then decided it was a bit too big and heavy.
I plan to buy a Fenix L1 on boxing day, but plan to carry it in it's pouch not in my pocket.

AAA
One problem I had with the Dorcy AAA was I can feel the bezel digging into my thigh.
The Arcs and Peaks do not have that problem but are quite a bit more expensive, not easily available in Canada and until recently not brighter than the Dorcy.

2AAA side by side
Came across a thread where andrewwynn was explainning his design for the minimighty and the micromighty. 2 batteries side by side are as easy to carry as one. I doubt if andrew has the manufacturing capability to build his design soon so looed for something similar.
Found the UK 2AAA eLED. The narrow side is as wide as the bezel of the Dorcy. The wide side is twice that. Yet the flat shape which is more similar to the pocket knife than the cylindrical torches, excerts very little pressure against my leg and is most comfortable to carry. I now EDC it despite it's dimness and yukky beam pattern.
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/uk_2aaa_eled.htm

LEDninja wrote: "2AAA side by side
Came across a thread where andrewwynn was explainning his design for the minimighty and the micromighty. 2 batteries side by side are as easy to carry as one. I doubt if andrew has the manufacturing capability to build his design soon so looed for something similar.
Found the UK 2AAA eLED. The narrow side is as wide as the bezel of the Dorcy. The wide side is twice that. Yet the flat shape which is more similar to the pocket knife than the cylindrical torches, excerts very little pressure against my leg and is most comfortable to carry. I now EDC it despite it's dimness and yukky beam pattern.
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/uk_2aaa_eled.htm"

Thank you LEDninja for your kind compliments

Yes, a 2x AAA side-by-side is a good design.

In fact I bought an UKE 2AAA side-by-side incandescent way back when I realized how bright they were for the size -


Then when the re-badged Buck-Light version were on closeout I actually bought a bunch in various body colors as gifts - that's how impressed I was with them.

I couldn't tell much difference between the Buck and the original UKE version (the UKE version was supplied with an additional slide-on clip shown in the photo) - but was told the UKE should be brighter with a shorter running time than the Buck version which used a regular krypton bulb.

I tried pocketing it for a short while. But eventually I carried it in my briefcase - or in the evenings/weekends I clipped it via a caribiner to the outside handle of any bag I was carrying.

Since then I've "rationalized" my leisure time carry to eliminate anything that was not on my person - so the (equipment) bag was no longer in use... therefore an in pocket carry became important for me.

I think why this well designed 2AAA side-by-side failed for me (never bought the LED version) was that the UKE 2AAA was still a bit too bulky - probably only because I was also carrying a 2 layed Swiss Army Knife in the same pocket (along with my wallet). Without the pocket knife things might be different.

This is why I emphasize all this is still my personal take, and as always - YMMV.

I'm using my examples to try to initiate some thoughts and discussion of people's preferences in a pocket flashlight.

Also I prefer the Dorcy 1AAA (and Nuwai 0.5w 1AAA) for their momentary on tail-switches, plus they run on just a single battery - so it's not just on size alone

.

Dude, I am totally with you on your preferences on carry size and form factor.

I have an Ultra and an Arc AAA, I feel they are wonderful lights (output and design wise) but have found the twist on to be a bit cumbersome at times. Espaecially when you have one hand occupied holding something and need to turn the light on.
I found the Dorcy to be most acceptable for EDC but the one and only one I bought and used quite often ended up falling apart after heavy use making me shy away from it. Granted at their low price it would be nothing to replace it, but then after having lights in the Ultra, Arc, SF quality range, I personally would prefer a torch that is going to last. My Dorcy's tail switch was the first thing to go, and from my experience I can't help but feel that a drop (or several) from medium height will takes it's toll on the light eventually. Not to mention one of my concerns is dropping the light and then accidentally stepping on it. I do not feel the Dorcy will take such abuse. Mainly in the tail section where I originally had problems.
Besides, nearly my whole life I have been using a carabinier to carry my keys. I clip it to my belt loop on my jeans. So the Arc is there too on its own ring so that it can be removed for use.
If it is a situation where that is unappropriate for the dress code, then its pocket time, and then its usually my SF E1 in slacks pocket when dressed up, and when allowable/acceptable, my holster from greatholsters.com and a G2 or E1.
Also I too lean towards the momentary tail cap. As far as I'm concerned its the way to go for speed and convenience of use. Actually I have thinking about the River Rock .5 led from Target. I know its not what you are looking for, but it would fulfill my needs.
And I like the Dorcy outdoors post. One thing I have learned is that when it is truly dark, the led puts out a great amount of useful light. One led will pretty much cover all the bases for most common uses.

BTW, your post makes sense and its not long winded, just thorough which any true flashaholic can appreciate.:rock:

Back in the pre LED days I carried a UKE on my keychain until the keys and pocket crud frosted the lens cap up with scratches.

Now I prefer a AAA unit on a neck chain. I rotate with an ARC, Dorcy AAA, Peak AAA in Stainless with a Snow LED. If I pocket it I can tolerate a Fenix L1 or the Coast AA unit. I prefer the AA format for pocket carry since I don't notice the AAA and think it is missing so I am always fidgeting to see that it is still there.

The CMG/Gerber Ultra however seems too bulky in comparison.

Guess that's why there are different models available.

First, thanks for all the thoughtful responses - I really appreciate your time and thoughts.

Pellidon wrote: "I prefer the AA format for pocket carry since I don't notice the AAA and think it is missing so I am always fidgeting to see that it is still there.
The CMG/Gerber Ultra however seems too bulky in comparison. "

That's how I felt too - I found the ArcAAA (although a great light - very small and elegant) a bit too big for my keyring - but too small for in pocket carry.

I can also tolerate in pocket carry of single AA battery lights like the Fenix L1 and the AdvancedMart 0.5w 1AA (LED-005S). But compared to the old Dorcy 1AAA they are just not as comfortable or convenient.

The AdvancedMart 1AA is close to as small as one is going to get - note: it's not the length - about 3.5" is about ideal for me - but the diameter - at 18mm the AM 1AA is about as slim as one probably can get for a 1AA - OK perhaps 17mm - considering an AA battery measures about 14mm diameter - but I don't think an AA flashlight can be much slimmer than 17mm diameter.

Compare that against the typical 14mm part of the body tube on the Dorcy 1AAA - now one can easily see and feel the difference.

....and please bear in mind I am VERY enthusiastic about 1AA battery lights - as that has been my "quest"/obsession.....

Interesting thoughts. I never paid too much attention for the size of a light and how it feels in my pocket. What I always try to find is the light that I can handle best.
Here's what I found:

The light I want has to have a certain length. The Longbow Micra with clicky and the Fenix L1p are just right in that area. They fit perfectly in the palm of my hand. A longer light is OK, a shorter light is uncomfortable to use for me. Though not in the Law Enforcement business, I adopted the so called "tactical grip" you can see in the movies for most of the times I use a light. A shorter light will have parts of the business end covered by my hand when I hold it in a way that lets me operate the switch. Cigar grip works better with shorter lights, but I use that less often.
So: I need length, and I don't care if I sometimes need a holster to carry the light.

Thickness: I don't care too much for that. I can accept any diameter that is common for cr123-lights. I often carry the micra cliped into one of my front pockets and it has never bothered me.

Chrisse

The Fenix L1P is the peferct size light for me, AAA lights are too small so they go on my keyring and the Nuwai QIII is too big to go in my pocket, i like lights which are cylindrical like the fenix, i do not really like lights with wider heads, the fenix is also very light i hardly notice its in my pocket, i really like the clicky on the fenix too, the nuwai QIII's is a bit harder too press down which make it unconfortable, all my light so far are single cell L.E.D's apart from the X5, i think the Fenix is a very nice ergonomic light and its my EDC

It is very doable to put A 123 into a 19mm diameter light, a CR2 into a 17mm dia light and an AA into a 15.87mm light! (I'm working on a run of the latter, but it will use the Li14270 cell.) What about crush resistance? They have the same crush- resistance as the cells inside! :green: Why none of the manufacturers are going thinwall is probably a matter of cost as well as their perception of what "the market" wants. Higher strength alloys cost a little more and tolerances need to be fairly tight. Eg my avatar CR2 EDC is 17.0mm dia X 49.25mm long when off, has a cut-down SO17XA reflector with glass window, is fully O-ringed/gasketed, and is 2-level with a Mad Max+ WO driver. It can be done! (End brag.)

Larry

tvodrd wrote: "It is very doable to put A 123 into a 19mm diameter light, a CR2 into a 17mm dia light and an AA into a 15.87mm light! (I'm working on a run of the latter, but it will use the Li14270 cell.) What about crush resistance? They have the same crush- resistance as the cells inside! :green: Why none of the manufacturers are going thinwall is probably a matter of cost as well as their perception of what "the market" wants. Higher strength alloys cost a little more and tolerances need to be fairly tight.
It can be done!"

Thank you Larry/tvodrd for that valuable input -

It's nice to know what the real diameter limits are for each of the battery types.

May I ask why most flashlights have what looks to me like excess space in the battery tube?
is it just for wider/easier tolerances? -
or could there be other reasons like possible battery expansion and/or allowing for some room for gas?

Three lights that are the perfect combination of pocket carry size and ergonomics when in use are the HDS EDC U60, the LionCub, and the PD III. The Raw carries better in pocket, but is not as ergonomic in use.

As technology advances and lights are able to become smaller, I wonder about the ergonomic limit. Yes, it's subjective to some point.

TorchMan wrote: "As technology advances and lights are able to become smaller, I wonder about the ergonomic limit. Yes, it's subjective to some point."

Very much so, as you say it's very subjective.

It not only varies from person to person -
but even varies for me depending on what pockets I have
(eg: at home I have the very pretty silvery-black (hematite like) 8LED 1AA "Xnova" New which is noticably bigger than the Dorcy 1AAA - simply because nothing else sits in that pocket - in fact I can easily carry the 1x CR123A S1801 or Nuwai Q3, and have done so)

Out of my house and/or traveling pocket space is at a premium for me - so although smaller the better - I try to balance handling and actual in pocket comfort.

Otherwise I would just go for the smallest flashlight with the battery type I like, or can live with -
so (sorry to repeat) it's not just size alone - at least for me.

Previously I was under the impression that a single AA battery (my favorite) probably could not go slimmer than about 17mm diameter. tvodrd post hints that it could get to as slim as 15.87mm - OK say 16mm diameter. This might make me consider the single AA light again - but I probably need to have one in hand to know if this is significantly better than say the 0.5w 1AA - AdvancedMart LED-005S at 18mm diameter (3.5" length) or even the slightly larger Fenix L1 (P) at 20mm and 3 5/8".

As I said it's not just size alone - I like the obviously lower-classed Dorcy 1AAA because of its momentrary on tailswitch, and am even considering the Nuwai 0.5w 1AAA (TM-310H) even though it is shorter than ideal and has a beam that's has an obvious blue tint - because of its superior momentary on tailswitch.

The last 2 proto's I made were from 5/8" (15.88mm) dia precision ground alum. bar. I punched the I.D. with a 9/16" (14.29mm) dia endmill which cut a little over. I have no doubt there are "fat" AA cells out there that may not fit and have to give the commercial guys credit for taking that into consideration. The 1/2" dia N-cell light I did is very picky about cell brand. :green: Peeling the wrapper from cells is a pita and can be problematic with alky's due to the cylindrical O.D. being +.

I've noticed there seem to be two "schools" of design for small, cylindrical-form factor "twistys." The KI, Orb Raw, Neoca and Jils have the batt case screwing inside the head, giving a "2-piece" light. The Arc AAA & AA, Infinity Ultra, McLux PD and my stuff have the head screwing inside the batt case, and requiring a seperate bezel ring if using a window- "a 3-piece" light. The latter doesn't require wall thickness sufficient for an O-ring gland and can be much thinner. The latter also requires an additional O-ring/seal for the bezel's skirt. There are a lot of trade-offs required with respect to aperature, thermal management, photon management, sealing, ground path, lanyard/clip attachment, etc in the design of small lights.

I hope my posts haven't come across as a hijack of this thread. New small-form factor lights are being introduced ever more frequently, and hopefully, someone is going to get one really right!

Larry

cool thread.
i dont like having a big head on a pocket light, i would prefer a VERY well designed reflector or optics instead.

i always have my photon 5mm thing, and anything OTHER than it in my pocket must be much more than a single 5mm led of any sort.
so no mater what battery case it uses if its bigger than a photon, then its gotta have some visual output, even at the reduced run time.

The .5W is ok, and is a step up from the single 5mm led for sure, but if i have to drag one more thing around it should have the juice of a 1W minimum, and it is going to need real Li-Ion batteries, or alkies will just not last the time, and will cost to much over time.

I love the side by side design, fits well, but if its going to have a fat head, or a poorly designed reflector (wastes light) then its not so good.

to me a flashlight IS a Battery holder FIRST, because everything always takes more battery in todays high-tech trash, and there is never enough power. so indeed the battery holder should NOT require 2x as much space to pocket as the battery itself.
the bulb items, and reflectors or optics can be efficentally designed to not require 1/2 the dang light to do thier job correctally. so the light part should not have to be so large.

i dont run over my lights , but i do drop them, so the skin of the containment should be sufficient for that, and doesnt have to be a tank.

the space used for the curcuit trash, can be minimalized, and they have that covered, but LESS curcuit of any sort to me is an advantage in every scenario. Advocate of proper DD and self regulation.

i also dont intend to carry a spare battery (advantages of recharging) if i always walk out with one that is presentally topped off. but if they are going to have 10X the space, of a battery holder and light lens thing, then i will cary a spare battery.

In other words, if the "flashlight" is a battery holder, with no curcuit stuff, minimal proper lensing, then carrying another LIGHT is just as easy as carrying another battery, AND that is what i expect from a light, that it be no harder to carry than the batteries in it.

ex: remember the old squeese lights back when incandescent was the only option? they fit well, and were nothing more than battery holders, 99% battery.

untill they make the plutonium lithium trioxide battery, and it can actually be sold to the consumer, a light is mostly a big arse battery, and that fact should be primary in the design.
high capacity li-poly, with 90* angle light output would make a nice pocket design, like the size of a spy cam.
round batteries round light, rectangular batteries rectangular (rounded off) light, dont waste pocket spaces, without Power Or visual output.

VidPro wrote: "to me a flashlight IS a Battery holder FIRST"

Many thanks for the input - I really like that turn of phrase - even though most people probably know intuitively that any battery limits the size of a flashlight.

For me - in a pocket-able flashlight on a single cell like AAA, AA, CR2, CR123 it's not the length that poses the problem - but the diameter (although I've seen some flashlights that seem to have difficulties in their length despite being a single cell.... :huh: )

I've emphasized that it's not just size alone - even though it is obviously a very important aspect for a light's portability - pocket-ability.

However just to look at how small a single AAA light can get - we could look at the Chinese 1LED 1xAAA "clone"? - it's not really a clone/copy per se. It actually has some pretty notable aspect in sizing that we could look at.

The length is noticably shorter than the legendary ArcAAA -


and its diameter is approx 12mm - which is a mere 2mm wider than that of a standard AAA battery - and there is still a little room/play when a battery is in place - this is pretty good design and tolerances - for something that is pretty cheap........
and it well fulfills the requirement of being a minimalist "battery holder"

Looking at the photo comparing it to some other well known single cell lights -


one can see how inefficient the Dorcy 1AAA is in comparison -
BUT like I said it's not just size alone - it's the way a light carries in the pocket and fits the hand - this is where the Dorcy 1AAA clearly wins out for me. But that takes nothing away from the elegance and efficiency of the ArcAAA - and this Chinese 1AAA light.

Here's my related 2 cents:

The Nuwai 1aaa .5w ( http://store.advancedmart.com/nu5waposiled.html ) is a perfect fit for front pocket carry. It is also reasonably priced ("sale" price only: "Regular price: $29.99Sale price: $12.99, 2/$21.99") and the momentary on tailcap switch gives it a major advantage over any twisty only light. That being said, however, I rarely carry this wonderful light because I've usually got too much stuff in my front pockets. I like to have quick access to my lights and I don't like clipping anything to my belt (other than my cell phone and that's only because I don't want it banging around one of my front pockets with all my other crap). So that usually counts this light out.

The 9volt Pak-Lite ( http://www.9voltlight.com/ ) is also a perfect, albeit different, fit for front pocket carry. It is not so reasonably priced (except the basic $12.99 model http://www.9voltlight.com/inc/sdetail/2972 which is even glow-in-the-dark and comes with a standard 9v battery); however, the ridiculously long runtimes for all models would seem to offset the longterm operating cost. Also, all the non-basic models come with a Duracell 9v alkaline battery. For the reasons stated above regarding the Nuwai, I also do not carry this light much (outside the house). It is, however, my absolute favorite light to carry around in my front pocket while in the house. For basic in-house nighttime navigation, it is perfect. The rectangular form also makes it ideal for all kinds of projects (planned or unplanned) that come up around the house, in that you can stand it on end or on its side and it will also never roll away. You can even hold it in your mouth for short periods of time as needed.

This leads me to the light that I carry outside the house most of the time. The River Rock 2aaa .5w (available at Target for the bargain price of $10) (it is also available as a Nuwai product for a higher price at http://store.advancedmart.com/nu5waposiled1.html ) is a perfect fit for REAR pocket carry. I reversed the pocket clip, put it on the tailcap, and clip the light in my left rear pants pocket. It practically disappears visually except for the clip and it's very comfortable, even when sitting down. Yet, it is readily accessible for one-handed use (without having to rummage through my front pockets).

G-force wrote: "the light that I carry outside the house most of the time. The River Rock 2aaa .5w (available at Target for the bargain price of $10) is a perfect fit for REAR pocket carry. I reversed the pocket clip, put it on the tailcap, and clip the light in my left rear pants pocket. It practically disappears visually except for the clip and it's very comfortable, even when sitting down. Yet, it is readily accessible for one-handed use (without having to rummage through my front pockets)."

Great input - thank you.

This works well for an AAA based light because of the narrower/slimmer body tube -
it is defintiely less comfortable with AA batteries (just try a 2AA MiniMag) -
the (reversed) pocket clip makes this carry very feasible -
the form-factor and ergonomics makes the River Rock 0.5wa 2AAA (or Nuwai TM-311H) a great rear pocket carry
and far outweighs any blue'ish tinted beams (and slightly patchy hotspot) these 0.5w Nuwai all seem to be guilty of......

I recently acquired these AdvancedMart 0.5watt - Lithium Lights in 1x CR2 and 1x CR123



As can be plainly seen they are no where near the potential small size of their respective battery(s).

BUT both of these kind of rise to near the top in terms of my consideration of form factor etc.

The other flashlights in the pic above are my current favorites - or at least the ones that get used the most - the Dorcy 1AAA and the Nuwai 0.5w 1AAA (TM-310H) -

Both these lights have beam quality that are somewhat less than ideal -
the Dorcy is "dim" by today's standards, and is somewhat patchy with color artifacts.
The Nuwai 1/2watt is just plain notoriously Blue.....
However both their form-factors far outweigh any shortcomings with their beam quality.

The AdvancedMart 0.5watt 1x CR2 may swing the other way for me - where the beam quality and overall performance may have biassed me on the form-factor - take a look at the review thread linked above - the beam tint and quality seems to me to be better than a highly regarded 1 watt Luxeon Fenix L1 v2.5 (although obviously not as bright - but please see Fenix L1(P) a counter-point)

The size and shape are good - it's a bit fat/dumpy - but the CR2 battery is already 15mm in diameter and for the body to be 18mm - the same as the AA version (0.5w 1AA - AdvancedMart LED-005S) is actually pretty good. Being shorter than my ideal of 3.5" - doesn't seem to bother me - as it still seems to fit the hand well to operate the clicky switch - unlike the Nuwai 0.5w 1AAA - I don't seem to get my fingers in the way of the lens.... perhaps it's the "volume" - the wider/fatter body has made up for the shorter length.... I don't know for sure - and like I said there is the danger of new infatuation over its beam tint and quality.

Let's talk about the CR123 version -
why? when I was obviously disappointed with it - being noticably dimmer - yet with no better runtime using a battery that should have about 2x the capacity of the CR2?

Well the main point is the diameter of this light at 19mm it is actually slimmer than the Fenix L1 - despite using a battery that's 16mm diameter vs. the 14mm of the AA in the Fenix - this is pretty remarkable - at least for CR123 lights - of which most seem to have diameters closer to 25+mm!

The length on this CR123 version is about 3" which is a bit shorter than my ideal 3.5" - but again I didn't find this a problem - it actually seems/feels better than the AA version which is at 3.5" - again I'm beginning to think "volume" the fat body with a shorter length would seem acceptable.

I can't be definitve about all this - however using these two lights as examples has been enlightening for myself -
where one might suspect the beam tint/quality on the CR2 version may have swayed me -
but there is definitely no such bias when it comes to the CR123 version.

Comments please?

It might be the way you pocket carry that has an affect. If you just let it jangle around loose at the bottom of your pocket it can be uncomfortable to carry a midsize light.

I use a Berkly point Micro 'biner like Clip and clip that to the edge of the pocket.
That method works really well on the L1p. It hangs vertically totaly inside the pocket, without touching the bottom. It makes Pocket cary virtually unnoticable, very conforatble and is very secure. Sometimes a bit too secure.

I recommend the Mini or Micro (size 2) not the nano as it is too small to unclip easily.

Picture:Think X-ray view, the flashlight is actually inside the pocket hanging verticaly!