After EFF Litigation, Diebold Pulls Out of North Carolina

cy

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After EFF Litigation, Diebold Pulls Out of North Carolina

"Raleigh, North Carolina - After a series of lawsuits led by the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) to defend North Carolina's election integrity laws, controversial electronic voting machine manufacturer Diebold Election Systems finally withdrew from the state's voting machine procurement process on Thursday."

http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2005_12.php#004286
 

James S

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that is excellent.

Security through obscurity is no security at all. Trust in Diebold is even less it seems :D

If those guys want to compete they need to start over, Big cheers to EFF and NC for not bowing to their corporate BS!
 

cy

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really surprised there's been little interest in this new development.

you would think voters would want their votes to count.

John Zink said: "people do what you check, not what you expect."

without a verifiable paper trail, there can be no check.
 

BB

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It is almost now... "why should people care"...

There has been massive vote fraud over the years in local, state, and federal elections, whether old voting machines or punch card or optical scan or voting dead or vote buying or voter registration fraud or just plain stupid voting. And, in many states and localities, they don't even count the absentee/mail-in votes unless the "they" decide the vote is too close (if it was like Seattle, which was when the machine candidate was down a few hundred votes).

Whatever happens with Diebold is just more of the same... (just to be clear, I want paper ballots--machine scan is ok--positive ID, and no absentee ballots by mail--you must vote live at city hall or mobile voting center before the election).

-Bill
 

Jumpmaster

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Friggin' MORE COWBELL!!!
BB said:
...and no absentee ballots by mail--you must vote live at city hall or mobile voting center before the election).

Hey, wow...that's great...so f### the military, right?

Thanks...really appreciate that...:rolleyes:

JM-99
(...who voted absentee in the last presidential election due to being in BASIC COMBAT TRAINING AT THE TIME...)
 

Ken_McE

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Jumpmaster said:
Hey, wow...that's great...so f### the military, right?

Jumpmaster, I believe he wrote that in haste, and didn't think it fully through. I don't think he meant the army should go fark off.

As for myself, I think that before we send you guys off to obscure corners of Godfoorsakeenstan to fight for democracy, we should maybe make sure that democracy is doing OK back here at home. I find this whole business where Diebold says "It's OK, you can just trust us", to be offensive on several levels.
 

BB

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I did also say "or mobile voting center"... I think that the military can take care of that. I don't care if it is a pair of officers or enlisted persons--but somebody that, under penalty of law, has validated ID and followed the instructions.

If you remember back in the 2000 presidential election, we had whole teams of lawyers that were "examining" the overseas military ballots for missing post marks in Florida, etc., and celebrating every time one was "rejected". The current system is not reliable.

I am against fraud everywhere. And in every election, voting by mail where it is impossible to verify ID, has proven to be highly prone to error and manipulations. And as we found in California, there were something like 1.5 million absentee ballots for the 2000 presidential election that were never counted "to save money." Other people have also found that in their states that absentee ballots are never counted at all--if the election "isn't close".

I doubt that there is systematic fraud in military voting (at least at the source of the ballots). My suggestion is to eliminate the multiple sources of fraud that are in our current system--when the ballot is created, submitted, and counted. And, as much as possible, to have the same requirements for everyone.

As soon as you create any exceptions, our friendly politicians and their accomplices will create massive holes to support voter fraud.

I used to vote absentee all the time, but no more.

And, if you guys in the military can liberate 50,000,000 people and setup the first democracies with free & open elections, ever, in that part of the world--I am sure that you can set up a system that is better, and more secure and less likely to have ballots rejected (by partisan lawyers), then the current US absentee ballot system.

-Bill
 

Jumpmaster

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BB said:
I did also say "or mobile voting center"... I think that the military can take care of that. I don't care if it is a pair of officers or enlisted persons--but somebody that, under penalty of law, has validated ID and followed the instructions.
. . .
And, if you guys in the military can liberate 50,000,000 people and setup the first democracies with free & open elections, ever, in that part of the world--I am sure that you can set up a system that is better, and more secure and less likely to have ballots rejected (by partisan lawyers), then the current US absentee ballot system.

Did you know things like this cost money? Would you like the bill sent to you, personally?

It is not feasable to set up your "mobile voting center" in the middle of basic training. Time is extremely limited during training. I cannot envision sending a battalion of 1440 (or multiple battalions) through during the middle of basic training. We got an hour or so in the evenings for "personal time" during which we could do things...like fill out the ballot, for instance. I do not see a way where you could get 1440 people with 1440 different ballots for each of their states/counties/cities/precincts to be able to vote in the span of an hour.

Anything more than an hour takes away from training...and we're sort of busy learning how to kill people, save people, and locate boobytraps in order to cater to your aversion to absentee ballots.

JM-99

(Oh...and if you're wanting this all to happen on election day with both brigades (with several battalions each) on the post voting simultaneously, forget it! We simply do not have the luxury of taking an entire day of training for this...especially when it is unnecessary.)
 
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cy

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excellent point jumpmaster :D

maybe something simpler could be done.
like mandatory counting of absentee ballots?

of course it matters little what we the voters think :green:

perception is voters do matter, but fact is: odds are so stacked in favor of incumbent polititions thru re-districting and the like.

don't know the exact percentage, but something like 95%+ chance our congressman and senators will be re-elected.
someone post the real number please...
 

BB

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I guess I have a definitional problem. Absentee, to me, is the individual filling out and posting of ballots, any time up to the day of the election.

My proposal is that people can still vote prior to an election, but there must be a person(s) that verifies that the person voting had proper ID and was not coerced (or dead) when they voted.

Today, the current absentee and vote by mail system is much to easy corrupt. You can look at just one blog (Sound Politics, Seattle WA) whose major reason of existence is voter fraud and the massive amounts of fraud/incompetence in the current vote by mail system.

I would still propose that people be allowed to vote prior to an election--however, that would have to be done in the presence of an election proctor (official at city hall, or even just a couple of people in a fox hole that attest to the validity of the ballot--ID, of sound mind, free of coercion, etc.).

Would I be willing to pay for it? I am sure that in our "military budget" of several hundreds of billions of dollars that somebody could find a couple tens of millions of dollars to set up a process to vote.

Military budget is in quotes because of things like this:

Schumer, Clinton Earmark Funds for Contributors:

WASHINGTON - Senators Clinton and Schumer are asking the Pentagon to spend $123 million of its wartime budget for New York projects that the Department of Defense didn't ask for - but that in many cases are linked to the senators' campaign contributors.

The two Democratic senators announced the projects - from a genomics research project at the American Museum of Natural History in Manhattan to cancer research on Long Island - in press releases this month, touting the impact they would have on the state economy.

But former Pentagon officials and Senator McCain say that the increasing number of "earmarks," as the projects are known, in the federal budget often divert money that would be better spent by the Defense Department's normal competitive bidding process. The number of pork barrel projects, including earmarks, has soared to 13,997 in 2005, from 1,439 in 1995, according to Citizens Against Government Waste, which tracks earmarks. The projects backed by the senators from New York are included in the conference committee report of a $454 billion defense-spending bill that was approved by the Senate on Wednesday and is awaiting President Bush's signature.

We have seen that states and localities either reject 1/4-1/3 of overseas military ballots (Florida 2000), or 1.5 Million absentees (California 2000) that were never counted. And we have seen ballots accepted for people that don't live in the city/county/state, or aren't alive, etc.

And, we have religious fundamentalists that have demanded their wives to vote absentee so that the husbands (and girls' fathers?) can vote properly for them.

Don't get me wrong... I very much want the military to vote and to have their votes count (not withstanding the fact that the military vote is probably much closer to my politics than not). I want everyone to vote and have their votes count.

And, I believe, that every ballot fraudulently created, submitted, counted, or rejected is an affront to my voting right too.

The system, as it stand today, your military vote has a very high percentage chance of not being counted today. I am looking for improvements, not just accepting of the stuff that is happening today.

-Bill
 

ikendu

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Having a voting system where there can be no real audit is insanity.

What? Do we think that all the known cases of voter fraud were just silly examples of past behaviour? I don't think so.

Electronic voting is fine. But it must produce a written receipt that is human readable and verifiable by the voter, if a bar code is also produced on the receipt to speed an audit, it can be verified against the human readable information. I've been in data processing now for over 30 years. You must have a system that is capable of being audited.
 

cy

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Electronic voting machines must be open-sourced

"Madison, Wis. — Among the 15 bills governor Jim Doyle signed into law on Wednesday will require the software of touch-screen voting machines used in elections to be open-source."

http://wistechnology.com/article.php?id=2585
 

cy

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State of Alaska rebuffs raw vote demand for...

"The results from the 2004 election in Alaska just plain look squirrelly," March said.

For instance, district-by-district vote totals add up to 292,267 votes for President Bush, but his official total was only 190,889.

Election officials have an explanation. Early votes for statewide candidates were not recorded by House district but rather were tallied for each of the state's four election regions. Those regional totals then were reported for every House district, essentially inflating the vote total many times over.

The results should be reported differently next time, officials have said."

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/7386582p-7298824c.html
 
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