5mm vs 1/2w vs 1w leds

Help me out here.
I have a nice bright light using a 5mm Nichia CS led slightly over driven.

I now want to go up a couple levels of brightness.

Would a 1/2 watt led do this for me?
Would an underdriven (due to heat and battery limitations) 1w do the job?
What elso do you suggest?

I guess that the the 1/2 and 1 watt units would also need reflectors to get the required throw which the CS does not.

Thanks

Streak

I was going to ask a similar question. I hope you don't mind my hijacking your thread Streak, but it's a similar topic:

I was looking at some multi-5mm-LED lights (another possible option for you Streak) and took a look at their outputs and they're equal or better than the 1W-3W Luxeon LED lights! From Quickbeams site, the 11-21 LED lights made from about 13-45 lumens, bettering many Lux1 to Lux3 lights (i.e. Q3 is about 27 lumens).
If this is the case, why are the Lux1/3 lights so popular compared to these multi-LED lights?
Aside from more throw (and a better looking front end IMO), what do the Lux1/3 lights offer that the multi-LED lights don't?
Is it the ease of battery changes (no need to use 3AAA in a cartridge)?
The multi-LED lights are considerably lower priced and seemingly produce a good amount of light while running on normal batteries. Just wondering why there's so much more focus and interest on Lux1/3 lights than there is on multi-LED lights which seem to provide similar/equal performance.

Hi jsr,
I am really not a fan of multi led lights. All they do is give you more flood and they tend to be bulky.
In wanting to change from a 5mm led I am looking for a bit more throw primarily and then more overall brightness. Adding a second Nichia CS would achieve the second but not the first.

Streak

Yeah, they are quite thick, but many are pretty short (those 3xAAA versions with the cartridge range from 3.5" to 4"). I recognize some of the shortcomings of multi-LED lights such as thickness, weight, and lack of throw, but I can get these for $5-$15 vs. $30+ for a single Lux-based light. For most people who use their lights to light a room or walk their dog, throw doesn't seem to be much of a concern. I understand your desire for more throw, so these are out. But hopefully I'll get more input from others.

I bought a Nuwai (River Rock) TM-311H 0.5W 2AA light as a x-mas gift for someone, but I haven't seen the output yet. I'll let you know if I get to see it this weekend how bright it is compared to my Lux1 and Lux3 lights.
I think you'd want at least a 1W. Some 1W lights produce more light and more throw than many 3W lights. Case in point, my Lux1 Streamlight Scorpion LED makes about 40 lumens and a lot of throw vs. my Nuwai Q3 Lux3 that makes 27 lumens and much less throw. The Q3 is not driven very hard, and the SL Scorpion Lux1 is likely being slightly overdriven, but I still get 2-2.5x the runtime off the Scorpion (of course, it runs on 2 batts vs. 1 also). But good Lux1s make very good light. If you want a 1xCR123 light with decent output, great runtime, and ok throw, check out the Nuwai ALX-2611X. Not quite the throw of a Q3, but 2-3x the runtime! I got the Q3 mainly cuz I like the looks and colors and it has good performance, tho I wish the runtime was better.
There are some very low-priced non-Lumileds (but still 3W) CR123 lights I'm looking into. If you don't want to spend the big bucks, those might be a intro for you to the Lux-realm.
If you want a 2xCR123 light, I highly recommend the Streamlight Lux1 lights: Scorpion LED, TL-2 LED (gen2), and NF-2 LED...great output and runtime and considerably lower priced than their competition.

Yeah, I think it's a matter of having the right tool for the job. If I'm just using a light around the house and I'm not really carrying it on my person, I'd rather have a light using one or more Nichia CS or Snow 29 LEDs. Lately, I've been sanding the LED down to give a wider and smoother and more diffused beam.

I had a very bright modded light with 6 CS LEDs overdriven and it was very bright and would easily light up any room in my house, but it was too bulky to carry throughout the day in my opinion.

As far as the .5W lights go... they will be brighter and have more throw than a single Nichia CS. The River Rock is the easiest to obtain if you live near a Target. They are also available in 1xAAA, and 1xAA form factors. I've had all of these and the only ones I still have are the 2xAAA River Rock and the 1xAA single stage (with tail clickie). The dual stage (with side clickie) on high is the brightest and allows you a low beam which is still probably brighter than a single Nichia CS an on low, it gives VERY good runtime on an NiMH cell. I'm not crazy about the tint of the .5W lights though... the blue is quite pronounced but not horribly distracting in actual use.

Next step up would be a Luxeon light. The Fenix L1 running on an NiMH AA cell or the either Dorcy Super 1W or Nuwai 2611 running on a primary 123 cell. Any are going to offer 2 to 3 times the throw of the best .5W lights at the cost of half to one third the runtime of the .5W lights.

In my opinion, a year from now when there are improved versions of the .5W LEDs that offer a bit more output and less blue tint, they are going to be an excellent value for those that actually use their lights rather than those that just hunt white walls. They put out enough light for almost any indoor requirement and don't do a bad job outdoors when you are away from ambient light. They give good runtime and are quite small and cheap. What's not to like.

Thanks for the comment so far.

But, come on all you experts, please let me have some answers to the questions relating to the various light sources.

Streak

Streak,
Can you give a bit more information about size, throw you need?
Size: pocketable. up to 4AA, 3D OK etc.
Throw: indoors, 50 foot backyard, 100 foot backyard, 2 miles across the lake etc.

Lumen output
Nichia CS 20 to 30 mA 5-7 lumens
0.5 watt 100mA 8-12 lumens
1 watt 300 to 350 mA 20-30 lumens

How much throw you get will depend as much on the reflector/optic as on the LED.

I probably will not be able to help you much as I live in a downtown apartment and do not need throw.

I recently got into the 0.5w LEDs and have compared them with 1watt Luxeon and multi 5mm LED lights.

Please take a look at these two review threads with lots of side-by-side comparison beamshots...... including some ad-hoc comparisons of 2x and even 3x 0.5watts with a 1 watt Luxeon (Fenix L1 v2.5 (Non-Premium)).

0.5w 1AA - AdvancedMart LED-005S

Nuwai 0.5w 1AAA (TM-310H)

Below is the link to the review thread of a good multi-5mm LED 1x AA light -

8LED 1AA "Xnova" New

Thanks LedNinja.
I have Nichia CS running off a AA battery with a boost circuit, Pretty much like Dorcy, Arc etc. do.

Without changing the battery (the circuit will handle up to a 1w luxeon) I want to find out if it's worth using a 1/2w or underdriven 1w to give me at least as much throw, preferbaly more.

I say if it's worth it because I would have to import the 1/2w or 1w leds. These wont give any throw without reflectors so I would have to import those as well.

Your figures suggest that if I drive the CS well enough it probably would not be worth the trouble to go the 1/2w route at 100mA.

That leaves the 1w which I would need to underdrive. How low can I go to get say 15 lumens?

Streak

I'm trying to envision what you are wanting to do... Are you saying that currently you have a light modded with a Nichia CS without a reflector and that you want to replace the CS with possibly a Lux I and add a reflector? That's going to either take a LOT of work and skill or it's going to look like crap.

Have you considered just buying something already built? The Fenix L1 or L1P is pretty tought to beat for a single AA light and only costs $30 at lighthound. To buy a good Lux I is going to be about $8 plus a decent reflector is at least $5 plus two shipping charges to South Africa and then you have to cobble the pieces together.

Thanks VT I'll take a look.
Cratz2 thanks again for your input.
I will only replace the 5mm CS with another led plus reflector if it makes light sense!
I know I can buy many of the lights that you mention but in the interests of science and furthering my knowledge I want in theory anyway to get am answer to my questions.

Streak

I understand about wanting to tinker... I'm a total tinkerer... not just with lights but I think what you are consdering or planning, assuming you want to make it look half way attractive, is bordering on a custom light. Might have a look over in the McGizmo forum and the Homemade and Modified forums.

Swapping a crappy 5mm LED for a better 5mm LED, and even converting something like the Dorcy 1xAA light to Luxeon is one thing, but converting a 5mm LED to a Luxeon that can throw is quite an undertaking.

Having said that, I've played with Luxeons in the IMS 20mm, IMS 27mm and McGizmo 27L reflector and I absolutely LOVE the beam given off with the 27L. Very nice throw... about half of a Lux III in the twice-as-large Mag reflector and while the entire spill beam is not as wide as with the Mag, the entire spill beam is brighter. Great little piece of engineering.

I'd suggest maybe ordering two or three R-bin Lux Is and at least one each of the 17, 20 and 27mm IMS reflectors and start playing.

It is easier to replace a 5mm led with a 1/2W 5mm led.
If you are not using a reflector, I suggest an uncut MJLED
http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?products_id=578
If you are using reflector, a superMJLED
http://home.mchsi.com/~lambda_lights/smjled.htm

If you want to go all the way to a Lux 1W, 4sevens is selling them for $3 in the dealers forum
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=102834
Be aware that a Lux with side emitter reflects ALL the light sideways and will have zero throw unless you use a reflector. Without a reflector you need a high dome (Lamberton).