SL Propoly Luxeon 4AA runtime question

_zeb_

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Hi all!

I own 2 SL 4aa myself and have started using nimh's with it. But I have a question regarding the runtime on rechargables.

On CPF, Sway made a runtime plot with 2500mAh and got 4:45h on those.
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=94482&highlight=runtime+nimh+sl+4aa

But on flashlightreviews it was only 1:12h(!)
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/streamlight_propolyluxeon.htm

It was 2300mAh that Doug on flashlightreviews used but it can't be that much different. My own experience is somewhere in between those numbers (I use 2100mAh).

What do you guys think? Why the huge difference?

Regards,
Zeb
 

lamperich

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_zeb_ said:
Hi all!

It was 2300mAh that Doug on flashlightreviews used but it can't be that much different. My own experience is somewhere in between those numbers (I use 2100mAh).

What do you guys think? Why the huge difference?


because doug isn´t silverfox...


NiMh performence varies hudge especially if they were abused(<-this can happen inadvertently)....
i can say this because when i was new to digicams i was pissed off.
The cam didn´t turn on...
letitallout2se.gif

solution: a Single cell charger with capazity check (at least). BC900 for example
NOW it
buttrock.gif


and that´s only the short answer...further information -> battery section
 
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Mike abcd

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Bad batteries and/or a bad charger. That run time is just plain wrong. Get some Energizer (Sanyo) 2500 cells and use a decent charger. There's no way they'll underperform any alkalines unless you wait 2+ months to test them.

Mike
 

_zeb_

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Thanks for your fast replies!

I have a BC900 charger and will check my batteries. Just in case I will also buy 2500 mAh rechargables to get maximum runtime. It was prolly as I suspected, the runtime plot on flashlightreview is somewhat strange (bad batteries or badly charged).

SL PP 4aa really is a nice flashlight!

I will try to get stores here in Sweden to get enlightened to bring it in =)

I had to order mine from the states and the toll fee and shipping rates was more than the lights... :-(
 

Sway

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zeb,

The cells I used were fairly new 2500 Sanyo Industrial cells in the green sleeve, just guessing they had around 10 cycles on them when I made that RTP.

I ordered 24 of the cells and after running them through 5 conditioning cycles with the BC-900 all of them but 1 cell came up to 2500mAh in capacity or more. The lowest of the bunch was 2490mAh, I'm just as happy with the cells as I am with the light :)

Later
Kelly
 

Quickbeam

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Would have been nice if someone sent me an e-mail... :rolleyes:

The cells I used were brand new and freshly charged. I'll try it again after testing the cells individually. I use the CCrane charger, and there's nothing wrong with it that I am aware of.

By the way, I have ordered the same battery testing apparatus that Silverfox has (I believe) so I'll be able to do battery testing to a limited degree as well.

EDIT: just checked each cell individually using the charger's "battery analyzer" function - all are showing a full charge at 1.35V - I charged them up about 3 days ago. I'll do the runtime again.
 
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wasBlinded

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Doug -

That output curve for the SL with NiMh looks to me like a single cell failed early. A typical NiMh curve with reasonably well matched cells will have a very steep drop to minimal output shortly after the light falls out of regulation. Just a thought there.
 

Mike abcd

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If the cells were brand new and charged only once or twice, that may have been most of the problem. I'm not familiar with the charger you used but new cells being charged for the first time often exhibit voltage fluctuations that leads to early charge termination on the vast majority of chargers that use -dV/dt. I see it regularly on the LaCrosse BC-900 and in retrospect suspect it's happened to me with other chargers and I just didn't have the information that the BC-900 provides to help me recognize it. Just wondered why I got such short run times on the first couple of cycles :-(

In a multi cell application like the SL PP 4AA, that can lead to reverse voltage of the cell(s) that didn't get charged fully casusing a permanent mismatch. In a charger without independant channels, the large variance in initial charge out of the package that I've seen can also cause that unless the cells are individually discharged first.

I'd also be a little concerned about the age of the 2300 mAH Energizers given that the 2500s have been out for a while. I've seen capacity issues with NiMH cells that sat unused for extended periods before being put into service.

Current premium NiMH cells have gotten so good that I'd be suspicious of any results where they don't out perform Alkalines even at discharge rates as low as C/5 and lower. The only exception to this would probably be non regulated lights using direct drive or a current limiting resistor that depend on the internal resistance of the batteries to limit current. In those case, I'd expect the NiMH cells to produce a noticably brighter output or fry the emitter.

IMHO, you're an incredible resource for us flashaholics and your site consistently has the most consistent and comprehensive reviews along with the most lights reviewed. Frankly, I'm hesitant to purchase any light that you haven't reviewed first...so SLOW DOWN and save me some money! :)

Mike
 

LowBat

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Thanks Doug for rechecking the cells rerunning the test. If you still get the 72 minute or similar runtime, please let me buy you a new 4 pack of Energizer 2500's to reasonably rule out the possibility you have a defective 2300 cell.

Larry
 

lamperich

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@ mike

i totally agree with your comments

also take a look on Dougs Surefire L2 runtimeplot. iam sure one cell was weak too.

it´s a surefire! Wrong advertised runtimes are unusual for this manufactur
 

bguy

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I just got one of the SL PP 4AA, and tried it with some older NiMH. They are about 2 year old Duracell 1800mah. And I got about 3 hours out of them before I noticed the beam dimming.
 

Quickbeam

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BINGO - one of the cells must have had a problem. The cells were conditioned and recharged and I then independently tested with the charger's battery analyzer function and they all looked good. So a new runtime was completed. 4 hours 42 minutes to 50% - better than alkalines.

The 2300's are less than a year old. Obviously, from the new results, age was not the problem. They must have needed a little more "breaking in", that's all.

proluxnimh.gif


NOTE - I am posting this picture from my own website - please don't hotlink to my pictures without my permission!!!
 

_zeb_

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Thanks Quickbeam for the updated runtime plots...now I can sleep again =)
 

lamperich

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Quickbeam said:
BINGO - one of the cells must have had a problem. The cells were conditioned and recharged and I then independently tested with the charger's battery analyzer function and they all looked good. So a new runtime was completed. 4 hours 42 minutes to 50% - better than alkalines.

The 2300's are less than a year old. Obviously, from the new results, age was not the problem. They must have needed a little more "breaking in", that's all.

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/img/streamlight_propolyluxeon/proluxnimh.gif

NOTE - I am posting this picture from my own website - please don't hotlink to my pictures without my permission!!!

Thank YOU!
 
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glire

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It would be interesting to compare runtimes between L2P and SL PP 4xAA Luxeon.
Both have similar Luxeon I, probably comparable overall output, but only 2x AA for the L2P so half embedded energy.
If they last about the same it would mean the L2P is twice more efficient that the SL PP 4xAA.
BTW, do someone know how is done regulation on the SL PP 4xAA? Linear? Switching step-down?
 

colubrid

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"please don't hotlink to my pictures without my permission!!!"

Just curious. What is hotlinking?
 

Mike abcd

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glire said:
It would be interesting to compare runtimes between L2P and SL PP 4xAA Luxeon.
Both have similar Luxeon I, probably comparable overall output, but only 2x AA for the L2P so half embedded energy.
If they last about the same it would mean the L2P is twice more efficient that the SL PP 4xAA.
BTW, do someone know how is done regulation on the SL PP 4xAA? Linear? Switching step-down?

They may claim the same output but they probably aren't even close. I don't have an L2P but from the posts I've seen, it's not a lot brighter than an L1P which I have. The SL PP 4AA Lux blows the L1P away.

That said, the SL PP 4AA Lux is easily my least used quality light. Too big for carry and too bright for most of my use. My 2 stage L1P sees LOTS of use and I always carry it when I go out. When I need more light around the house/yard, I grab the VB-16 3.5W that I got from Wai On. It's got a bit more output and slightly more throw than the SL PP and the 16 variable levels give me the just the right level for all my needs. Runs very well 1 x R123, 2 x R123 and 1 x 18650 with super long run times at the lower levels.

That said, I still like the SL PP a lot and gave out 6 as XMas presents to non flashaholics who all love it.

Mike
 

L.E.D.

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I have both the lights in question (L2P and 4AA Propoly Lux) and an L1P as well. My L2P is a third brighter than my L1P at most (but it is brighter), and the 4AA kills the L2P in throw and total output.
 

floscherl

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Thanks L.E.D. :)

I own a L1 (with the r-bin lux from LightHound) and the Streamlight Pro Polymer 4AA Luxeon. I know from some screenshots, that the L2P is brighter than the L1P.

But comparing a L2P with the SL ProPoly 4AA lux is like compare apples and oranges :D

The SL rocks, with 2500mAH Sanyo´s much more ;)
 
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