Anybody gone from Incandescants to LED's and back to Incandescants?

I used to be a HUGE fan of LED's, like they were the second coming. But the more knowledge I gain from this forum, other places and personal experience with both, the more I'm leaning back to incandescants.

I suppose I should start this thread with an experience I had a few weeks ago. It was really quiet in the house one night and I thought I heard a noise that sort of woke me up. Not a normal noise, but something strange. (later found out it was nothing), but anyways, I grabbed my River Rock 2C LED out from under my bed and went to investigate. I shined the light around the outside room and spotted something behind my printer stand suspicious.

Well I kept shining the light on it and still couldn't figure out what it was. So I turned off the light and since I was standing right by the flashlight shelf on my bookcase, I grabbed my Dorcy 123A LED light. This is a very white Luxeon floodlight. I shined it at the printer stand and still could not figure out what was sitting behind it suspiciously. The printer stand is approximately 5-6 yards from where I was. So I put that back on the shelf and grabbed my Surefire G2. I turned it on and shined it at this suspicious object and could instantly tell that it was my extra electric heater sitting next to a large black leather camera case.

So I tried it with both my 2C and 2D Maglites and the same result. I'm not colorblind in the least. But it was so much easier for me to instantly identify what I was looking at with incandescant lights.

Now, the reason I love LED's is because the bulbs are so much less fragile and more reliable. And stay lit so much longer on dieing batteries. But it seems like with the 5W Luxeons and such, that bulb life and efficiency has gone down drastically anyways.

And I've always seen through experience and read that LED's are hard to look at which would give you an advantage, but I've done some testing of my own and determined with a different result than my first test, that it's really not much different to stare at an LED light that pointed away or towards you than it is to look at an incandescant.

There was some extremely thick fog here yesterday. I also got a chance to test out my LED lights in those conditions. Unfortunately they were all but worthless. While my incadescants pretty much saved the day.

LED's have their place, but it must be noted that their place isn't everywhere. Not yet anyways.

I'm not shunning LED's, but I really understand their PRESENT limitations better now. My G2 sits under my bed now instead of an LED light.

Hope I don't get a gang beating for posting this, I know how many "LED only" type folks are here, but I'd like to see some reasoned discussion on this. Thanks.

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

Me too.

I LOVE LED's, but find definition and color recognition lacking.
For up-close stuff, I love the LED's. My most used light indoors is the UK4AALED. Lovely little light.

Yet, lately, I have needed to do many tasks outdoors, where I have a lot of light pollution. The LED's seem to get swallowed up, even though the total light output often equals the incan numbers. I think it has something to do with the light spectrum (red). It seems that things often look two-dimensional, or flat with LED.
My LED's are not crappy: BB400's and MM lites with nice Lux III's, TL2 LED, several well-driven home-mades, and plenty of 5mm LEDs.

Yet...outside, my $10.59 (including tax) PT Rage kills all of them.
This is depressing!

I am totally ready for an A2 Aviator because I think the LEDs will be prefect indoors (or outside in quality dark) and the incan, well, is amazing.
Gotta save many pennies.

Bob

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

I have no experience with the Dorcy 123 light. However, the beam from the River Rock 2C I had was so blue that I had trouble identifying distant objects even though they were illuminated.

It is easier to identify objects when illuminated using my whiter LED lights, e.g., Mini Maglite with TerraLux TLE-5 drop-in and Streamlight 4AA ProPoly Luxeon.

Perhaps you are judging LED lights by a couple of "bad apples."

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

InfidelCastro said:

Hope I don't get a gang beating for posting this, I know how many "LED only" type folks are here, but I'd like to see some reasoned discussion on this. Thanks.

Click to expand...

Um, no beating from me.

I started this whole flashoholism thing with a surefire G2. When I need the very best the Surefire Weaponlights come out. If I know im going to be needing alot close up and general use with long run time light, I love the BOG 3w drop in and the Surefire KL4 on one or two cells. But to have the best of both worlds my EDC light is an A2.

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

Before flashaholic days, I was just an incan guy. Mags and such. LED's sucked me in and now I am hooked. I still really like my LED's and I think they will always have a place in by box-o-lights. I use them quite a bit too for indoor stuff and limited outdoor stuff (mostly when the ambiant lighting is non-existant). I have recently been playing with hotwires. ROP's, Mag85's, mini-hotwires, etc. Now that is really fun.

When I pull out my LUXIII minimag, people say "wow, thats neat". When I pull out my minimag-TL3 hotwire, they say "Holy $h|t" :devil:

This New Years Night I was on a snow hike to watch the happening from above. We all used dim LED Headlights and my 3 W Lux Mod for checking the marks and heading.

On some occasion we needed more light and I tried the SF 9N I had with me. With dark & LED lights adapted eyes the beam sucked and the light got back into the backback instantly.
Within limited space (woods) incans are dead.

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

I've also come full circle, started off with incans (Mag 6D and 2D, 2D leaked and threw it out), for the longest time, the flashlight was simply "there", nothing special, just something to use in power outages or checking that "bump in the night"....

then a few months ago (around 3 or so), i picked up an Inova X0 at the local Discovery Channel store, did a web search to find reviews on it, then found CPF

then came a mad rush of LED lights (X5, X1, 24/7, PT EOS, Fenix L1S, BOG 3W, 3D Mag with a Sears Luxeon Worklight bulb)

between getting the 24/7 and EOS, i picked up a SF G2, then later a 6P, and then a P61 HOLA, after the initial readjustment to the "yellower" light of the P60/P61, i realized something....

the SF's (and Incans in general) just seem to have a smoother color rendition and don't "flatten out" the subject like LED's do, it's easier to make out depth with an Incan, essentially, the Incan gives a more 3-dimensional lighting than the "flatter" LED light

for me, each light has it's use and it's place in my arsenal, the LED's are for when i want a light that can handle rough use or need long runtimes at the expense of intensity, color fidelity and dimensionality, the incans are used when i need brute power and/or depth perception

i'd say my usage is pretty balanced, but leans more in the LED favor, the Fenix and EOS get the most use as they're just so convenient and the fact that the LED's are power sippers

if i need distance or fog-cutting, out comes the 6P, last night i went out to the car with my LuxMag, it was foggy, and when i had the LuxMag lit up it looked like i was carrying a lightsaber (yes, i admit it, i did wave the light around and made some "VWMM-VWMM" noises, is that so wrong? ), when i whipped out the 6P, the fog was a non-issue....

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

I think that the general principle of using the right tool for the right job applies here. I'm getting a LED for close up work and for the long run times in case of power outages and such. I'm also getting an incan. for investigating night noises outside.

It would make sense that some things would look different under LED lights since they only put out a limited spectrum.

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

Those who are sold on LED's only haven't seen a A2 in action
-Old flashaholics proverb-

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

Most of my carry and household flashlights are LEDs. I do keep a SL TL-3 in my truck in case my LED modded Maglight can't cut the mustard.

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

A few weeks ago I would have sworn by LED's only. I have a variety of LED lights including an Lioncub and Lionheart which I EDC and use daily.

I also had a very old maglite that had a lot of sentimental value. I converted it over to a MAG11. All I can say is WOW, those hotwire bulbs can really put out the lumens, I'd never seen anything like it. Although it's very functional and I carry it at work, it never fails to get the "wow that's a bright light" when I turn it on around others using their not-so-special lights. It has become part of my nighttime arsenal and definitely the go-to light when I need to look for baddies outside. (it also makes a good hand warmer)

So although I still love my LED's, I now know that hotwires have a definite job to do still in the real world.

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

My eyes are very sensitive to light so only the very worst of the dim led lights are of no use for me to find things in the dark. I seem to have two areas of interest. Led and other solid state illumination for the tech-geek factor and incandescents in the "oww that's bright" camp.

Probably 75-85% of the time I use Led lights. All of my incandescents in use are rechargeables.

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

I came full circle as a few members above have posted. BUT right now I need LUMENS and LOTS of them.

I started with a 6D Mag and Scorpion, then a Tigerlight and Surefire E2e as a back-up duty light. In that time, my E2e has been replaced with a Surefire L2 and now the L2 has been replaced by the U2. Come to think of it (besides my Scorpion, first CR123 light that now sits in a draw) all my 2 X CR 123 lights have been replaced by the SF U2 regardless of LED or incandescent.

A while back an LED (5mm, 1 watt, or 5 watt) couldn't touch a 2 X CR123 light of similar size. Now many LED lights outperform (in theoretical throw and and lumens but not color rendition) its incandescent size counterpart. The Surefire KL4 is equivalent to the E2e MN03 in terms of ~lumens, but lacks throw. The KL4 has regulated output while the MN03 dims over time. The KL1 with optic and 3 watt LED out throw the MN03 and offer regulated output and a variety of cell capacities all in the same head while not offering the best color rendition or sidespill. the same goes for the P60 and KL3.

LED's have their place but after owning and using a Surefire M6 and Tigerlight with premium battery pack anbd Gen4 lamp, I am unimpressed by lights of lesser output. I had my hands on a Surefire A2 before I gave it as a gift to a nephew and 50 lumens just doesn't cut it for me anymore. I simply need more lumens, lol.

I narrowed down my collection somewhat, and LED's and high-powered incandescents will always have their place. I wouldn't grab my M6 or Tigerlight to do routine need a light with long runtime and up close work while the same goes for the SF U2, would not use that for bumps in the night.

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

My two cents,

I too have become more fond of incandescents. I own an L2 and a U2, but for sheer raw power with adrenaline pumping through your veins, I grab an incandescent SF G2 or SF E2D. IMHO, keeping it simple at times of stress is the best. No need to adjust the light output, for instance. And the human eye does respond best to the incandescent lamp type of colour. I went for LEDs at first because of their reliability. But right now, a shock-isolated bezel from SF (which I hope to acquire soon) seems just as good, and I regularly check my equipment anyway. Besides, I feel that the electronics in LEDs may just be another component that can fail.

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

Hrmm... Well, I'm definately not an 'LED only' kinda guy, but if I could only have two or three lights, there's a very good chance that they would all be LEDs. For me, in most of my personal use, the denefit of generally longer runtimes while still putting out adequate light and not risking blowing a bulb at an inopportune time outweigh the throw or 'cutting through fog' characteristics for incandescents. And on the color rendering issue... I've never seen any LED that was truly as good as a good incandescent, but I have a couple that come close and one that is without a doubt, the best I've ever used or owned. I can tell the difference between two shades of dark green against each other and that's good enough for me.

Having said that, two of the last five lights I've bought or built have been incandescents.

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

I, too, had a brief flirtation with LEDs before returning to my roots as a Hotwire, chiefly for the reasons cited here: superior acutance, or ability to discern detail. My bluish LED beams were especially bad at revealing detail. I had to work to hard to "see" what I was looking at.

Three days ago, as I walked at night from work to the train station, I dropped and lost my G&P G60, a $20 body. In it were a Wolf Eyes 168B lithium-ion cell and a 3W/1W regulated LED module. Do I mourn the loss of the $38 LED module? No. Do I mourn the loss of the $20 cell? Yes.

I still buy keyring LED lights--to give to other people.

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

InfidelCastro raises an important and practical issue here.

As the immortal Dirty harry once said: "A man has got to know his limitations."

And LEDs -- while they make wonderfully reliable and durable Illumination Tools -- do have their "limitations."

For me, the ultimate test of my flashlights are in the OUTSIDE uses to which I put them -- specifically, during my nightly walks. Most of the time, my Surefire L5 LED or Pelican M6 3W LED are perfect: good flood for path lighting; decent throw for probing the shadows 100 ft. out. Sometimes my Inova XO3, with its tighter beam, works well if I want less spill with more "surgical" throw.

However, they all tend come up short when there is (a) dense moist air/fog/rain, or (b) significant "ambient" competing light from streetlights, car headlights, etc. And THAT is where the good old incans shine. And that's why I keep a SF E2 or Peli M6 incan handy or as a carry-backup.

Here's 2 practical situations that merit an incan over that nifty LED:

1. PARKING LOTS: You and Mrs. Flashaholic exit a restaurant/mall and must navigate an unevenly-lit parking lot. Lots of ambient light and dangerous shadows here between you and your car. Your pocket EDC (a 2 X 123 LED) light will NOT cut through that clutter. A SF 6P or PM6 will. The effect is akin to extending the range of your "scan radar" and Situational Awareness.

2. ACCIDENT SCENE: This happened to me. I was the first-on-scene driver at a just-happened horrible, hi-speed, head-on collision on a moderately-trafficked road one dark night. The 2 smashed cars cars blocked the entire road -- along a dangerous curve -- just as more cars approached the curve from both directions. After pulling over and setting my car's emergency-lights a-blinking, I grabbed my Mag-Charger, got out, and frantically flashed the big Mag at approaching traffic. Its 100 yd. Throw did the trick. No LED would. It enabled me to quickly set up a line of cars in both directions -- with their lights a-blinking -- to avoid more collisions.

Now it was time to search the cars and area for injured victims... and bodies. Lotsa ambient light clutter with long shadows (from the cars' headlights) everywhere. Found a critical victim in the back seat of an inverted/crumpled Datsun whose engine was shoved into the front seat. NOBODY else on-scene had ANY flashlight to help out. Gave first aid to the bleeding victim by the light of the Mag.

Finally, the first cop arrived at the scene. His light was 75% dead. Borrowed my Mag to check things and move some cars so approaching ambulance could get through the traffic jam. Asked me to use my Mag to search roadside bushes for more bodies. Ambulance crew decided critical victim needed immediate helicopter airlift to hospital. Helo approached, but No cop or EMT dude had a light w/sufficient throw to illuminate dangerous power lines nearby to enable helo to safely land. The Mag had that throw... enabling helo to land and whisk victim away. Then, the (uninjured) belligerent drunk driver who caused the accident jumped me! Tried to deck me! A Mag-pop to his gut and lumen-blast to his eyes stopped him cold... until the cops could cuff him.

The later case was 20 years ago. These days, a few good LEDs might hack SOME of the conditions there. Any number of top incans could handle ALL of 'em.

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

One note on LEDs and Fog:

I'd read that the RR 2AA (and RR 2C) LEDs are exceptions to the outdoor rule on fog--in otherwords the RR's work well.

I had the chance to test out my RR 2AA in heavy fog a few weeks ago and was surprised to find that it cut through it quiet well, unlike most LED's.

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

I was a solid incan guy but I bought a Inova X03 on a whim and became an LED guy. I was impressed with the brilliant white beam from the X03 but after more and more use with more and more LED lights I realized LED was no match to a solid incan for my purposes. Now I keep LED's around for general utility work but a Surefire incan rides my hip.

Re: Anybody gone from Incadescants to LED's and back to Incadescants?

While I am a huge fan of LEDs for various purposes, I always like to have an incandescent available. This is especially true in bad weather on long distances like nightime roadways, parking lots etc. I still like my C3s and M3Ts for that.