The thrill of bright light, and battery half life.

When I first starting to buy my "mega-bright" LED flashlights, they were great. But then, when the dc-dc circuit can no longer maintain the light, you reach battery half-life - the point output starts to drop like a stone.

The thrill is gone at this point. Sure, it may last a lot longer with more light than regular lights. But didn't you buy that 5w LED light for just that? - The light. That's why I am looking at rechargeable CR-123 batteries more seriously now. Sure, they only last half as long but you can recharge any time you notice the light getting too dim for your taste.

Which do you prefer, and don't you feel the same way about the "charge" being gone from your favorite light?

I simply will not use non rechargeable batteries for anymore for that reason. I hate it with LED lights when the light starts to dim, and you want to put in a new battery, but you don't want to waste what's left of the current battery either.

Yeah and with unregulated LED's the 2'nd 50% runs a long time (and the last 25% seems to last FOREVER).

I've sort of arranged my lights so that my camping gear and my EDC get the new cells for maximum brightness where it's needed. Once they run down some they go to the nightstand light(s) where max brightness isn't needed, until they are too dead for that.

For me, it's lithium-ions or nothing. With primaries, I found myself counting the pennies that each minute of light was costing me. All my lights are now 3.6V/3.7V xenon or 9V xenon.

It's one thing to use a dim light that was designed to be dim. It's another to use a scorcher that's dim because its batteries are low--a totally unpleasant experience.

Yes, but isn't there another tradeoff, namely that rechargeables have ~1/2 the capacity of lithiums? I don't know what their discharge curve looks like, but if it's flat until they die, then I guess the lumens remain constant but only for a fraction of the time that you'd have some usable light from the liths. Is this right?

Where can I find discharge curves for, say 2xCR123 v. some rechargeable option? Also, is there a lumen v. voltage curve available?

And what are the 2xCR123 rechargeable options?:thinking:

Thanx.

Lee

there's a sticky with runtimes (by Roy and somebody else) somewhere in the ....section, Leef.

Leef said:

Yes, but isn't there another tradeoff, namely that rechargeables have ~1/2 the capacity of lithiums?

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Depends on the light, and the kind of batteries you're using. My main around the house light is just a incandescent powered by 4AAs. I use Duracell 2500mah NiMh, which should give me roughly twice the run time of alkalines and almost the same run time as lithium AAs. (plus a package of 2500mah NiMh batteries cost almost the same as 1 time use lithium AAs)

I really like the ability to use rechargables, especialy Li-ion. NiMH are okay, but I don't like the self-discharge. Right now I'm mostly using my Q3 with a RCR123a and I cary a spare. This setup will last me all day when I'm using it heavily. I still EDC a Fenix L1P on my belt with a BatteryStation lithium primary, but the Q3 in my bag is never too far away. When I need to light up a room, its my Surefire L2 with 14670. And my G2 with BOG 3w and two RCR123's is around to use as well. I do like incan's though, so I'm still looking for a good setup that will run about 150 lumens for around 45 min+ and use protected Li-ions. We will see what comes up.

The rechargeable cell concept is similiar to "dial-up". The former is cheap but lacks capacity. The latter is cheap but lacks speed. If I had to use rechargeable cells I'd loose interest in flashlights and find a new hobby, and if I had to use "dial-up" I'd get rid of my computer.

I have quite a few lights that run on li-ion only, and have a nice runtime. My Streamlight TL-3 with two 17500's runs as long on li-ions as I would run it on primaries. After about 40 min, I'd replace primary cells to make sure they don't run out when I need the light. For an EDC that get's used from 2 min to half an hour a day, there are lots of rechargeable options.
I'd use nimh's a lot more if I didn't have to worry about the self discharge.

Chrisse

I pick anything available on my desktop (well u know I've lots on CR123 and RCR123)

16340 in EDC U60 and Heter Lithium AAA in ARC-P. However, there's 4 pcs of CR123 in my backpack. Nimh ? Never in faslhlights.

Longbow: got the tailcap yet ?? If not, pls pm me your address.

I use rechargeables almost exclusively. I carry primaries as spares.
Some of my lights have equal or better runtimes using rechargeables. I use NiMh in my headlights since they usually are used for hours at the time when I'm out, and I just put the cells in a charger when I get back.

The thing I dislike about primaries is that after a while you have no idea how much battery you have left, but with Li-ions I can just top them up whenever I need to.
Another thing is that with my HDS the max level won't be avalible even when the light can run at lower levels for ages on a partly depleted primary.

Recharables let you use lights on high powerlevels without thinking about cost, and worrying over partly depleted cells in your lights.

Emilion; I sent you an e-mail about CPF discounts on your website and forgot to add my username.... Minor brainfart

Sverre

I am also switching to rechargeables and using mostly regulated lights to avoid a slow drop-off.

zespectre said:

Yeah and the 2'nd 50% runs a long time (and the last 25% seems to last FOREVER).
...

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Boy, you aren't kidding. I have 2 CR123's I been trying to drain just to chuck them and put fresh batteries in my iNova. One measures 2.2v and 50 mA. The other measures 2.0v and 125 mA. Essentially dead for all intensive purposes. But that sucker is STILL brighter than any 2 D-cell flashlight you will ever use. I even tried shorting the better battery out to kill it off, with little luck. They give even more light in my Striker-VG.

Last night I pulled a bunch of C-batteries from models I have. One was leaking BADLY and could have ruined my precious collectable.

Anyway, I measured them to see how weak they were since they had to be around 5 years old each. The meter tops off at 250 mA and each battery weakly pegged the needle. That tells me they have at least 300 mA of juice left. Fresh batteries would peg the needle hard.

Well I put those 4 babies in my Nuwai ALX-654C. http://store.advancedmart.com/lu5wledalfl1.html
Would you believe I didn't notice any difference in brightness? Maybe they have something more like 400-500 mA of juice left. But for a battery that holds about 3 amps, that isn't alot. I'm wondering how long it would take to drain those. This thing is supposed to run up to 4 hours on maximum brightness, and it sure is holding up. Incredible.

Like we're always saying, use the right tool for the job.

My most used light right now is my Inova T4 (rechargable) due to the night time walks. I like the brightness and throw and the 2.5ish hour runtime is plenty as our walks generally take 50-65min of which the light is on for about half that time. It makes me happy to know I'll have a full brightness light each time I pull it out of the charger (and the same for my wife's Gerber LX3.0 running on NiMH batts).

On the other hand, Primary 123A cells make the most sense for me when I go backpacking. Any light that stops suddenly like the T4 is completely wrong for that sort of application and lights with a long "tail" suddenly seem much nicer (because at 2:00am on a pitch black night and you have to answer natures call, ANY light is better than no light!).

MrBadger said:

I do like incan's though, so I'm still looking for a good setup that will run about 150 lumens for around 45 min+ and use protected Li-ions. We will see what comes up.

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Conisder these options, listed by increasing cell capacity; runtimes are approximate:

• 2x150S/150B or 2x17500 + Streamlight TL-3 (175 lumens for 1 hour)
• 2x150S/150B or 2x17500 + Digilight USA T9 (175 lumens for 0.75 hour)
• 2x150B/150S or 2x17500+ 3x123A Surefire-type body + G&P G90 High Pressure or Digilight USA lamp assembly (175 lumens for 0.75 hour)
• 2x150A or 2x18500 + 3x123A Wolf Eyes 9D body (42mm head) + RICO Alpha 9 lamp assembly (about 175 lumens for 1 hour)
• 2x168B/168S or 2x17670 (corrrected from 18670) + 4x123A Surefire-type body + G&P G90 High Pressure or Digilight USA lamp assembly (175 lumens for 1.1 hours)
• 2x168A or 2x18650 (corrrected from 18670)+ 4x123A Wolf Eyes or Pila body (45mm head) + RICO Alpha 9 lamp assembly (about 175 lumens for 1.4 hours)

Paul-in-maryland,

What a nice, concise, list! I'm going to print that out and use it to assemble my next light.

Thanks!

Paul_in_Maryland said:

Conisder these options, listed by increasing cell capacity; runtimes are approximate:

• 2x150S/150B or 2x17500 + Streamlight TL-3 (175 lumens for 1 hour)
• 2x150S/150B or 2x17500 + Digilight USA T9 (175 lumens for 0.75 hour)
• 2x150B/150S or 2x17500+ 3x123A Surefire-type body + G&P G90 High Pressure or Digilight USA lamp assembly (175 lumens for 0.75 hour)
• 2x150A or 2x18500 + 3x123A Wolf Eyes 9D body (42mm head) + RICO Alpha 9 lamp assembly (about 175 lumens for 1 hour)
• 2x168B/168S or 2x18670 + 4x123A Surefire-type body + G&P G90 High Pressure or Digilight USA lamp assembly (175 lumens for 1.1 hours)
• 2x168A or 2x18670 + 4x123A Wolf Eyes or Pila body (45mm hea d) + RICO Alpha 9 lamp assembly (about 175 lumens for 1.4 hours)

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i think you meant 2X17670 + 4x123 surefire-type +G&P HP G90... the 18mm diameter cells won't fit in the surefire style bodies...

Not to sound picky but...,
I want my most used lights to run on ANYTHING I have laying around. This can be NiMH, alkalines or lithium AA/AAA batteries although I run NiMH for everything except my keychain light which uses lithium AAA cells.
Besides my keychain light, the most used of my flashlights all use the same battery. Mediterranean 2AA EDC, Fenix L1P bicycle helmet light and nFlex LuxeonV 8AA to 2D Mag. The venerable AA battery can be used in all three of my most used lights and those three combined see around 5 to 10 hours a week of use.
I use NiMH 1700 (8AA Mag), 2300 and 2500mAH batteries in those lights and they serve me well. They are not shelf queens so the self-discharge rate of NiMH batteries is not a concern. My less used lights (Peak and Arc mutli-colored LED lights) they run either empty or have a lithium cell inside so not to leak.
2006 is here and I eagerly look forward to Sanyo Enerloop NiMH batteries and plan on buying at least 16 of them. Hopefully they will fit in my 8AA to 2D adapter for the LuxeonV light. My plan is to put them in my remote controls, wireless keyboard/trackball and alarm clocks. The MillerMods L1P, Mediterranean 2AA, CD players, battery operated speakers and MP3 players will use the normal, higher capacity NiMH cells.
If A123 systems comes out with a 2000mAH Lithium-Ion "AA" cell, I'll jump all over it. From what I have read, those will bring LiIon into prime time as they are much safer, no hazardous materials and have much better longevity that typical LiIon cells.
Lithium-Ion cells don't last long enough for me at this time, either in capacity or shelf life. Once A123 systems produces a 3.3V Lithium-Ion AA cell (they run slightly lower voltage from what I understand) I'll convert what I can to them and use Enerloops in the others. My electrically assisted bicyle will be awesome with the A123 cells, jump from 24V 12AH to a 26.4/30AH pack and it will be lighter.
With the upcoming advances in Lithium-Ion and NiMH batteries, there should be little need to use alkaline batteries at all. The 1.5V lithium cells have a place and purpose that rechargables can't touch... storage life.

BentHeadTX said:

If A123 systems comes out with a 2000mAH Lithium-Ion "AA" cell, I'll jump all over it. From what I have read, those will bring LiIon into prime time as they are much safer, no hazardous materials and have much better longevity that typical LiIon cells.
Lithium-Ion cells don't last long enough for me at this time, either in capacity or shelf life. Once A123 systems produces a 3.3V Lithium-Ion AA cell (they run slightly lower voltage from what I understand) I'll convert what I can to them and use Enerloops in the others. My electrically assisted bicyle will be awesome with the A123 cells, jump from 24V 12AH to a 26.4/30AH pack and it will be lighter.

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Sorry to disappoint you, but the A123 li-ions are no good for flashlights because they have a significantly lower capacity than current cells. Their only advantage is much lower internal resistance which allows much higher discharge rates which is useful in ultra high drain devices such as power tools or RC planes, which can drain the pack in under 5 mins.