Fenix L1(P) a counter-point

The Fenix L1 v2.5 is by any stretch a fabulous light - 1 watt giving really good output but able to run on a single plain Alkaline AA battery running for 2 hours, with even better performance on Lithium AA or rechargeable NiMH AA - and I only have a plain Non-premium version..... so what's not to like? :huh:

However as a general purpose light it seems to fall somewhere in-between-y for my usage - a bit too bright for close tasks and not bright enough for true outdoors distance use.

For around the house indoors usage I seem to have settled on the 1/2watt LEDs - with a preference for the ones from AdvancedMart - which are basically less blue than those from Nuwai - one of the two of my 0.5w 1AA - AdvancedMart LED-005S has quite a large hotspot with a very usable side-spill corona - despite some earlier reliablity issues - I'm becoming more and more enamored by this light - which seems to have a fine balance between "just right" brightness and long runtime of just over 6 hours on a single plain Alkaline AA. I also like the 8LED 1AA "Xnova" New a lot - despite it being relatively low-tech and "crude" in its approach of just using more multi-LEDs - it has a runtime that seems very inefficient to me for its brightness at about 2-3hours - but again its flood-like spot and "right" level of brightness - finds it sitting in my pocket for my at home usage. I just use a rechargeable NiMH AA and recharge the battery as soon as I see the light dim....

I find that the Nuwai Q3 running on a rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123 (3.7V) gives pretty spectactular output - with a really useful beam (floody-spot). Its performance on a regular non-rechargeable CR123A is probably nothing to write home about - but it works...... Unlike the Fenix L1, the brightness on Rechargeable RCR123 is well worthwhile for outdoors and distant usage.

As an illustration for more distant usage - please take a look at my attempt at some more "Practical" Beamshots

credit for this theme should be given to particle or wave? over at flashlight-forums.com for his thread starter of The more I use my Fenix...............

UnknownVT said:

However as a general purpose light it seems to fall somewhere in-between-y for my usage - a bit too bright for close tasks and not bright enough for true outdoors distance use.

Click to expand...

Its fine not to be crazy about a product that everyone else is googoo over. I recently bought a small Sebenza, which the knife world proclaims as pretty much the best small folder ever made, and quickly got rid of it because it couldnt figure out what all of the googoo was about.

Same thing with your Fenix. The L1P has become my most-used light, but to each his own. :twothumbs

I use my L2P for computer work all the time. I just use it a bit further out from the case than the mini mag that it replaced. From a bit further out it lights up the entire case, which I find much more useful than a point spot.

The two-stage mod takes about 15 minutes, and makes the L1P significantly more useful. I find the bright to be fine for most of my needs, and with a 5 Ohm resistor, the dim setting is great for close-up work like reading or writing.

Vincent,
I understand your paradox, the L1P is rather bright for closeup and does not have enough punch for outdoors. The way I am solving this problem is by getting a MillerMods L1P. Miller changes the stock electronics out for a much more effiecient (88%) regulator that punches 500mA (1.7 watts) to the R bin. This will give almost an hour of runtime with a Titanium 2400 or 2600mAH NiMH. Want more runtime and dimmer output? Click the switch to the 5 ohm position for lower output and 3+ hours of runtime.
My use for the L1P is a bicycle helmet light that replaced my BB500 R2H minimag. With the MillerMods L1P, I can get the same amount of light as the minimag mod but with the lightness, small size and waterproofness of the L1P. You can ship your L1P to Miller and he will mod it $22 for the 1.7 watt regulator, $3 for the switch mod and $5 shipping.
You also have the option of getting an L1P pre-made and he can add a LuxeonIII to the light if you want. Not sure if you would want to mod an L1 but it can be done and he can upgrade the emitter for you to make a pseudo-L1P hotrod.

I agree with UnknownVT. Ignoring the Fenix problems in the converter, switch and hard anodize problems the light has more 'WOW' factor than use factor. In the long run the QIII beats the Fenix.

The Fenix is not a world beater. As a Chinese light it is impressive but there are so many better lights in the world.

The light impresses everyone that sees it. People cannot believe the amount of light that comes out of the little light. That is all the use I get out of the Fenix. I'll turn on the QIII after showing off the Fenix. People migrate away from the Fenix once people see what my QIII can do. And there are better lights then my QIII.

The Fenix light is too bright for close up use. For longer beams the Fenix falls flat. The beam has a decent throw but not a lot of spill light. I need a good spill light for an area light.


My Nuwai QIII gets more use. I inadvertently made a Fenix before it was built. It is almost as if Fenix had someone watching CPF and made a designed based on a QIII. Fenix knew exactly what to build to impress CPF members.

I'm currently using the QIII with a two brightness switch. My QIII has many battery options. From a lowly AA battery all the way up to a big Pila 168S (176570) battery. The run times are very long with a bigger battery. I can get 2 hours or 6+ hours depending on which brightness I select. My QIII is currently running a 14500 Li-ion battery but is only a little larger than the Fenix light.

The Fenix has a medium throw beam with a thin spill light. QIII has a bright throw beam and a generous spill light. The ugly QIII sits in my hand better than the Fenix.

In real use the Fenix light has a lot more hype than use. The Fenix light has less use then a QIII, custom lights, more expensive lights, and Surefire lights. My QIII is more reliable and has more uses than a Fenix light.

After you have used better lights the Fenix light pales in comparison.

TrueBlue said:

After you have used better lights the Fenix light pales in comparison.

Click to expand...

WOW...I couldn't disagree more!

I have an HDS U60, several surefires, Gladius (i.e. "better lights"), and the Fenix is always in my pocket (as is the U60). It has many uses, especially with the 2 stage mod.

It's not a perfect light by any stretch, but it fits my needs. And, I think "problems" identified have been quite magnified. Mine have proven quite reliable.

I think it easily holds its own against "better" lights. In fact, the light that I have been stunned at the number of posts with switch failures, scratches on the reflector, and even a scratched lens is the SF U2, which costs nearly 4x the Fenix.

I could not figure out the Sebenza either. Got a Kersha Blurr


Fenix Paid $43, 50% too much. I paid allot more for lights I never use also!

powernoodle said:

Its fine not to be crazy about a product that everyone else is googoo over. I recently bought a small Sebenza, which the knife world proclaims as pretty much the best small folder ever made, and quickly got rid of it because it couldnt figure out what all of the googoo was about.

Same thing with your Fenix. The L1P has become my most-used light, but to each his own. :twothumbs

Click to expand...

I got rid of my Q-III 2-stage with R123's and AA extender that I used as an EDC because:

1. While the Q-III was brighter on R123's the run time on High was a little short for any emergancy use.

2. To allow me to use common AA batteries in an emergancy I tended to keep the extension on all the time and this made the Q-III a lot longer.

3. While the Fenix isn't as bright as the Q-III it is bright enough for AA indoor uses and when camping in a dark area the high was plenty bright.

4. The Fenix with the 2-stage tail cap give a good low with 30+ hours on low and 2-2.5 on high with perfect light level for dark campsites inside a tent.

wwglen

Well, I guess I'm just glad there are options. I've had two Q3s, one with a TW0J and 2 stage clickie that I used mostly with R123s... certainly nice and bright and even on the low mode, with the R123 it was bright enough for 90% of my use and on high with the R123s, it was quite impressive for such a small light of modest cost.

Having said that, for me personally, I'd rather carry the Fenix. It just feels like a better product. I've owned three of them though I sold my L2P. I've never had a problem with the clickie... maybe my opinion will change if or when that happens but for now, the Fenix fits very nicely in most of my pocket watch pockets which the Q3 rarely does.

At the same price, I'd personally take an L1P over a Q3 every time. But since it costs about 33% more, I can see giving it some thought, but I'd still take the Fenix every time. I have a Q3 and a Q1, both of which are modded but running stock vs stock and on intended cells, they are very comparable and since the Fenix has heavier construction, HAIII (however poor it may be), AR coated glass lens and is smaller... I'd gladly pay $10 or $12 more for the Fenix.

But having said that, I agree that the Q3 and the Fenix are both sort of inbetween lights. I've been carrying the Streamlight TL-3 (with rechargeable 17500 LiONs installed of course) for the last week and it's quite carryable. That along with either my 'Nichia CS direct on an AAA LiON' modded Solitaire, the Infinity Ultra or the Nuwai TM313 0.5W AA light, it covers all bases very well.

What I'd really like is the Inova X1 with maybe a T**J emitter with a floody reflector and three to five levels of output via a citcuit similar to the nFlex. That along with something like the TL-3 or some other 'throwy' light would serve pretty much any purpose and both would be relatively easy to carry.

Well I might as well jump in with my two cents...

I know as someone who sells the Fenix's I shouldn't have an opinion.
Well, I do. And I would have to say I've been fair not to hype
them as some others do. I alwasy try to stay objective and state
the facts and obvious observations. Hey, I even voted for the McLuxIII PD
as flashlight of the year - significant from one who's handled a boatload of
fenix's

Anyway, with that aside... I've both the Q3 and the L1P and I must state
some obvious facts and experiences...

The Q3 will tear up your pants due to the aggressive knurling. The cuts
on mine are so "raw" from the machining that was never smoothed over.
After some use, they did wear down, but still is bad for the pants unless
you wear ripped jeans and don't mind

The Fenix with the smooth lines won't damage your nice khakis.

Both of my Q3's cliips broke after 2 weeks. The material is thin and
is not designed to last. When one of the clips broke it cut my hand wide
open

I guess having a clip is still better than NO clip in the fenix.

The Q3 also is fatter than the Fenix which adds bulk in your pocket.
I carry my fenix around in my pockets all the time without noticing it.
I can't do that with the Q3. I guess I'm a bit sensitive to thicker
things in my pocket.

ONe more thing... I mod thinks alot and I know this has been brought up
before, but the aluminum ring for the Q3 does not provide adequate
heatsinking for r123 use. I've had it kill a TWOJ star prematuredly

anyway, they are really to different beasts... different cells, finishes.
Oh one more... the Q3 has a plastic window. Fenix is glass

I have both and love both(Q3 and Fenix L1P).
My Q3 is now DD R123, 2-stage with a Vi-ren heatsink, TYOJ, 20mm IMS and UCL.
I like the Fenix for the ability to use AA and it is bright.

I also have 4 Advancedmart AA, 1/2 watters. One is modded with a TWAK, 14500, cut-down 17mm IMS and new heatsink.

They are all good.

Many thanks for all the input

UnknownVT wrote: "The Fenix L1 v2.5 is by any stretch a fabulous light -
However as a general purpose light it seems to fall somewhere in-between-y for my usage - a bit too bright for close tasks and not bright enough for true outdoors distance use."

Just to be clear - I am NOT anti-Fenix L1 - I do like my Fenix L1 a LOT -
it just doesn't get used much :huh:
mainly because of the in-between-y brightness for my typical usage.

Others might be - but I am not comparing it directly with a Nuwai Q3 - because the Q3 is WAY too bright for close up work even on non-rechargeable CR123A - but on a 3.7V rechargeable RCR123 the Q3 is spectacular and much more useful for outdoors and distant work (than the Fenix L1).

For indoors use I like the level of the 1/2watts and the gain in runtime -

I do realize that the Fenix can be mod'ed for a lower level running -
however that probably would be the level I would use it all the time -
seems such a pity to relegate such a fabulous light to the lowly and much cheaper 1/2watts and even 5mm LEDs of this world......

So my take is that I really like and admire the technology of the Fenix L1 - but I don't really use it.

I am beginning to think that the 1watt Luxeon I - is probably exactly in this awkward in-between-y brightness level for me - where it's too bright for closer work but not bright enough for outdoors and distant work.

Whereas the 3watt Luxeon III driven properly or even slightly over-driven probably achieves the necessary brightness levels for outdoors and distant work for me. So one with a 2-stage with lower brightness to about the level of the 1/2watts (rated 12 lumens or below) may make a more suitable light for me.

I agree that the Nuwai Q3 is not as pocket comfortable for me - please see the discussion thread - Form-Factor, Size, Ergonomics - so I would much prefer the Fenix L1 body.....

Like I said I am not anti-Fenix L1 at all -
It's just that I don't use my Fenix L1 much, despite the fact I like it, and consider it a fabulous light......:huh2:

I'm betting that the L0P (If it turns out that it works well) will be more popular than the L1P. Many folks just don't want to carry something as big as the L1 in their pocket (That's the main reason I never bought one). The L0P is small enough not to notice in a pants pocket, is much brighter than an Arc AAA and doesn't have the potential for clickie problems.

I know that many don't mind the bulk of an L1 size light, but it's not for me. I carry enough pocket-bulging stuff as it is, and I don't often need anything larger than my Arc AAA more than once a week or so. Even though the benefits of having a cell phone on my person were obvious to me over 15 years ago when I got my first one, I rarely carried one on me until a few years ago when they made them small enough that they would fit nicely in a pants pocket. I never EDC anything that needs a holster or lanyard.

Lots of stuff would be nice to carry, but the "bulk vs benefit" problem keeps most items in my car, home or desk. When they start making binoculars small enough to fit next to my driver's licence in my wallet, I guess I'll get some. Until then, they'll stay in the glove box...

I have always been a bit skeptical about 1 AA lights, realy newer paid much attention to them until I heard about the Fenix. I was debating should I get one, after reading the many posts and hearing good things about them I finaly
gave in and bought one. I have to say that was one of the best decisions
I had made in regards to Flashlights, it was well worth it, great little Light

If I had to choose between a Fenix L1p and a Q3 I 'd always choose the Fenix, even if I had to pay double the price of a Q3. I had a Q3 and did the tailstand mod, put in a new Luxeon and an IMS 20. Sold it after that, it still wasn't a good light. Heatsinking is a joke, the converter board as well. The annodizing came of from just carrying it in the pocket and the clip was completely useless. Yes, it can be brighter than the fenix, but for a small EDC I don't need the extra brightness. If I do, I'll cary a good cr123 light, like my modded longbow micra.

Chrisse

I think these lights (L1[p] vs Q3) need to be compared in their stock form. Once you start comparing modded versions, you're comparing lights that someone spent valuable time and energy modifying, even if that someone is you and you weren't getting paid.

My L1p and Q3 (CR123A) have about the same output and same beam quality. I haven't tried the Q3 with an RCR123A, which is somewhat exotic, incurs a runtime penalty, and adds an expensive battery and charger to buy. But if the Q3 is so great at 3.6 volts, I wonder why they didn't just crank up the circuit to run the led at 3 watts on 3 volts. Maybe there's a way to tune the electronics instead of changing the battery. Nuwai should just sell a "Q3x" which is a cranked up Q3 though.

The Q3 is a little cheaper but doesn't fit a pocket as well, and is uglier. So I'd score it:

Cost - Q3 a little bit cheaper, advantage Q3 but I don't see the difference as that large. It diminishes further if the L1 (non-P) shows up again.

Pocketability - I find the L1p fine as a pocket light if I want to bring a light somewhere. I normally don't edc it though. Q3 is somewhat worse: thicker, clip snags on pants, etc. Advantage L1p.

Beam quality, brightness: draw

Runtime (L1p/LAA vs Q3/CR123A): both are in the same ballpark, I'm not sure which runs longer. Batteries cost about the same. I think of this as a draw.

Battery commonality and cost: L1p runs well on ubiquitous, cheap AA NiMH, Q3 for rechargeables needs somewhat weird RCR123A but has a brightness advantage when you use that. I weigh this in favor of the L1p because I have zillions of AA NiMH cells and don't want yet another battery system clutting this place up, but I can understand seeing it differently. I see the Q3/RCR123A as "non-stock" in any case. So: draw.

Switch: IMO they are about the same. Draw.

- Non-flashaholic factor: running acceptably on standard AA alkalines wins hands down for non-flashaholic users; advantage L1p.

- Moddability: I don't care much about modding this class of light; the idea is to have something cheap that doesn't require much TLC. If I want to spend time tweaking a light I'd rather start with something better, like a McLux.

Improvements: Fenix should use a more efficient converter and think about a 2-stage switch. Nuwai should make a higher powered version of the light, again possibly with a 2-stage. I'm not keen on the 2-stage resistor mod that's been floating around.

Conclusion: IMO the stock Fenix beats the stock Q3 in most regards except a minor cost difference. The Fenix is close to maxed out on power given the capabilities of an alkaline AA cell. The Q3 could be cranked up a bit, and its main attraction for its fans in this thread is higher power with 3.6 volt cells. So to get some differentiation, Nuwai should crank it up.

To like the Fenix or not depends on what you still have and prefer. I carry a Raw. So I´m searching around to perhaps replace it by a better light. The Fenix L0P might be an option. I´ll give it an try.

If you ask me I don't give a __ whether a light is ugly a not. Its mostly the light output that impresses people...

Although the design plays a part, but like m*gs with attractive bodies but not so good lights, which would u pick?

I don't have a Fenix, but am looking to get one (likely from 4sevens) in the future. I have (2) Q3s, one for myself and one for my fiance. I actually like the way they look, aggressive, but not too gaudy...maybe cuz I'm new to flashlights and find this design interesting and different from the Maglites I was used to for so long. I haven't had any clip problems. Mine was quite loose when I got it, so I removed the clip and tightened it. My fiance's was perfect. At work, I have my Q3 in it's holster next to my cell phone so no one notices it and it fits nicely w/o getting in the way or feeling too bulky. When I'm not wearing khakis, I usually have pants w/ cargo or 3rd pockets, and carry my Q3 in there w/o any probs or it getting in the way. On the rare occasions I only have 2 pockets, I'll usually either carry it on my belt via holster or clipped w/ half the light sticking out of my pocket, which doesn't really get in the way then. Hopefully I'll have a Fenix to compare it to later, but so far, I haven't found any issues to complain about w/ my Q3.
For the L0/P, I'm looking to make something similar w/ a Nuwai TM-310H. I haven't gotten the light yet, so hopefully it'll be easy to take apart.

BTW, what does IMS stand for? How did you break the head of the Q3 loose?...boiling it in a ziplock bag? Thanks.
J.