My gas/heater problem SOLVED!

During the weekends of Chirstmas, New Years, and the one after, I'd lost hot water on Saturday mornings. All 3 times my landlord came and said the pilot light had went out, and I guess he did whatever it is he does, because after a few hours the tank reheated and I got my hot water back. I have gas heating my hot water. It's only happened those 3 times, that I've ben able to tell.
Today I get my elec/gas bill, and for the therms used this month, instead of it being between 8-11, which is normal, it was 47!!!! MY GOD, what the hell is happening?? I've got an outrageous bill here. I just got off the phone with Customer Service, and because of people freaking out over the cost of gas, all concerns reguarding a high bill are being treated as if it was based on the price, not the amount used. They said they could send someone to look at the meter, but not the actual heater. And it's going to take 3 weeks for that, even. They said they would not charge me late billing because I'm refusing to pay as of now.
I left a message for the landlord, so he will be aware of this sometime today. Has anyone had this sort of thing happen, and what the heck did you do about it? I don't want my building to blow up here, and also I don't want to be stuck with this bill, which I'm starting to think I will.

Re: I MUST have a gas leak!

If you suspect a gas leak (i.e. smell gas), the safest thing to do is to turn the gas off at the main immediately. I think your landlord has some timeframe where they are required to check it out...I mean, I don't think he can say he'll look at it in a couple of weeks. I think it's a couple of days, at most.

As for being stuck with the bill, you won't be able to fight it with the gas company unless they check their meter and find it is faulty. If it was excessive consumption due to a leaky appliance (hot water heater), you could make the argument that the landlord should pay it since he supposedly "fixed" the problem several times, but the leak continues. Not saying he'll pay the bill, but you could bring it up to him...

Good luck...TURN THE GAS OFF NOW!!!

JM-99

Re: I MUST have a gas leak!

Here's the problem. I have no clue where the heater is. I'm on the 3rd floor of an old building that has 4 apartments, all on the top, businesses on the street under us. I've never seen the heater, and wouldn't even begin to know where to look. I doubt I'd have access to it, if I knew where it was.
The good news. I'm very good friends with my landlord and his family (the reason I got this place!), and he's very good about stuff. So I know this won't be a fight with him. This is a very old building, and maybe it's just time to replace some equipment? Could the pilot light being out really have thrown that much gas away?
If there was a leak, I would have absoluetly no way of smelling it.
The only upside to this so far, is I'm sure I'll get a break on my rent for the cost of covering the bill. I just want it solved so I don't get a $100+ bill every month. Yeah, and the blowing up part, I don't want that either...

Re: I MUST have a gas leak!

If there's a gas leak in a building, you'll smell it. They add a "special odor" to natural gas just for that purpose. One drawback is that the odorant desensitizes the nose to that smell after a while (just like almost any smell). Leave the building for some fresh air for a few hours and come back. If you can smell gas, LEAVE!!!! And call the gas company and/or fire department and report a gas leak.

If the gas water heater is malfunctioning and the pilot light is going out, the safety devices should totally shut off the flow of gas to the water heater. If the safety devices malfunctioned, they -could- pour gas into the unlit burner because the thermostat was calling for heat but there was no heat so the gas continued to pour into the unlit burner. But that is not likely.

Next, look at the bill and see if it was based on actual usage or an estimate. If it was based on estimated usage, go look at the meter yourself and take a reading. See if it is even close to their estimate. If it was based on an actual reading, take a look at the meter and see if the reading matches their number (allowing for usage since the reading date).

Because of the rise in utility costs, someone might be stealing your gas. Go find the meter and trace the gas line out to your appliances/dwelling. See if there are any new taps or branches where someone is stealing your gas. If you find any, call the gas company and the police and report the theft of natural gas.

Re: I MUST have a gas leak!

I would totally agree with MoonRise, very good.
Would not have though TOG (Theft Of Gas). There are easier ways that new taps and branches to other's meter/outlet. I would have thought that the heater is now running constantly, that's why the consumption is high. Needs looking at ASAP. Check those reading also. Good Luck in getting it sorted.

Re: I MUST have a gas leak!

In order of importance...
1) Get someone to check for gas leaks in the building IMMEDIATELY. If the gas company won't do it then call the fire department. Don't fool around about this and don't take no for an answer. I lived in a group house that nearly got blown to the moon because an inspector was f*#king around and took two days to come out and find a leak in the sub-basement. If someone won't come out and inspect the building ASAP (and I mean within a few hours) then find someplace else to stay until they do!

2) Notify your landlord about the sudden change in the bill and that you are trying to get an inspector to come over to check for leaks.

3) As someone else said, check that your bill is for actual gas used, not an estimate.

4) The pilot light can go out for a number of reasons but the usual one is air in the line. Why would there be air in the line? Possibly a leak somewhere else or possibly someone illegally tapping your gas line.

5) On the other hand, this could just be your winter bill. Have you been there through cold weather before? I was getting a $200/month propane bill (and was still cold all the time) at one place I lived. Moved out 1/2 way through the winter!

Don't let this one go until you find an answer. The risks are too great!

Re: I MUST have a gas leak!

Water heaters rarely last beyond 20 years, often less depending on the mineral content or pH of the water.

Moonrise is on the money. All the newer ones have a pilot light feature where if the pilot light isn't keeping a bi-metal expansion valve "thingy" open (how technical of me!) with it's own heat, the pilot light and main burner gas supply is automaticaly choked off as a safety precaution. The main burner valve is controled by a thermocouple probe which is the skinny thing stuck in the pilot flame, while the mechanical pilot valve is the thicker tube right next to it.

That's why re-lighting a water heater is such a pain, as you have to simultaneously press and turn the master gas valve to a higher pressure setting to force gas through the heat valve until it's lit and the flame can hold itself open.

Now, a hot WATER leak would cause a constant drain on the heater, and cause it to constantly drop below the set temperature, causing it to fire up repeatedly.

Also, some places hook the toilet up to a hot water line to prevent tank condensation. If you're toilet has a slow leak due to a old or worn bail/flapper plug, see if the supply line is tied into hot rather than cold.

Re: I MUST have a gas leak!

Well here's the story as of today. BGE says that the reading they took was an actual, not estimated reading, so they're sticking to that. My landlord says there's no way it was an actual reading, because he did not let them in to check it, they don't have access to the meters. The only thing they can check is the elec meters, which are outside. There are only 2 people with access to the gas , the landlord and another building owner a few buildings down, so no one has the ability to tamper or steal gas from my heater.
Moonrise certianly was right about the pilot light and auto off. I didn't know they worked that way.
What I'm left to do now is wait a few weeks for a investigator to call me back to set an appointment up, for him to come and check to make sure their meters are working correctly. When I get that date and time, I'll give it to my landlord, who also invited me to join the party and come see what the hells going on down there.
I changed the floating bulb in my toilet tank last year, and it does not run, so that's not it.
My normal usage of gas is only between 3(least) and 10(most) units during the year, the most probably being in summer when I'm taking 1 or 2 showers a day. There is NO WAY that I suddenly used 47 units last month. It's impossible. The gas is only being used to heat water, I've baseboard electric heat, thank god.
So now I sit and wait for a call I'm sure I won't be here to get (I'll be at work, or coarse), and I'm left to wonder how much next month's bill is going to look like while this crap unfolds.

Thanks for the thoughts and info, guys.

Re: I MUST have a gas leak!

OK, rental unit and the gas is used only for hot water.

First, go look at the meter and read it yourself. While checking the meter, also check the gas piping leading from the meter to the water heater. Look for branches or taps (theft of YOUR gas), or leaks (smell of gas). Check the water heater for water leaks, check the hot water line out of the water heater as far as you can for leaks or a branch/tap (theft of YOUR hot water). Look for piping that is newer or different from the rest of the piping as a clue that someone tapped in.

If you find no leaks (gas or water) and no theft (gas or hot water), and you have a gas usage history for a year or more, and the bill shows the actual meter reading (check the meter and the meter number on the meter and compare that to the bill) , and suddenly your monthly gas usage jumps from 3-10 therms to 47 therms for one month, then I'd say the meter has broken. Not likely, but it could happen.

Don't wait a month for the next bill to see your new usage, go read the meter yourself now and also check for gas or water leaks/taps.

Until you actually look at the meter and verify what it says, you don't -know- if it was an actual reading. Especially if the landlord says that he didn't let the meter readers in.

Go read the meter yourself. That will then determine the next steps to take. If the bill has the wrong meter reading (error or estimate instead of actual reading), then your problem is solved right there. If the meter reading is right and matches the bill for usage, then you have to try and find out why your usage jumped from 10 therms to 47 therms in one month when the only thing you use the gas for is hot water. Three things for the increased usage would be leakage, theft, or meter error.

Unless you maybe got a new water bed and refilled the water mattress six times with hot water. Or were running a winter hot-water car wash service. Or deiced your car or the parking lot by running hot water from your faucet through a garden hose (I think you would have mentioned that one).

Re: I MUST have a gas leak!

Well, Moonsrise, I honestly wish I could shake your hand. Consdier it shook very vigoursly!!!
After reading your last post, I decided to stop being sheepish and call the landlord about him letting me see the meter readings. He came over in 10 mins, and we unlocked the door, got about 2 steps in....hey whats that sound?....running water...uh oh. Oh look, there's a stream..... and look over here there's a ******* WATERFALL. There was steaming water spewing from out of my hotwater heater! All over the place, steam in the air. I never thought I'd be so happy to see something so bad.
So he turned it all off and shut it down. We went to the meter, and the readings were definatly correct. As a matter of fact, the reading was done on Jan 11, and from Jan 11 to today, Jan 20, the amount of water used was the same as one normal month for me, about a difference of 10. I said I would take the difference of my bill out of next months rent, and he was fine with that. It seems my heater is about done it's 6 year life, and I think I'm getting a new one. Pray that I have hotwater by Monday for a shower and shave.

Thank You to everyone for responding with your ideas and guesses. And Moon, for making me get off my *** and do something more, you'll get a big *CLINK*:buddies: when I'm out tonight at an Irish Pub for dinner and drinking.

Re: I MUST have a gas leak!

:goodjob: Great to hear you have found the problem. It was obvious something was wrong. You will be able to :sleepy: tonight :wave:

Re: I MUST have a gas leak!

Horray!!

Note to folks: The water heater makers have their warranty times mapped out -VERY- well. The water heater will usually fail very shortly after the warranty period is up. Like within a month or two.

For my virtual beer, I'd like a nice pint of porter please.

Hot water heaters have a glass liner, when the outer steel that supports it corrodes, the glass will crack and leak. When that goes there's no way to repair it.

So, unless it's actualy a leak at the supply or outlet pipe, that means you're getting a new heater.

Same thing happened to ours in the late fall of 2002. The original heater was a GINORMOUS 95 gal A.O. Smith that had been installed in '87. I woke up one morning and the shower barely got above lukewarm, and the water pressure was lousy. I hustle down to the basment soaking wet in only a towel to find water running into the basment drain. Amazingly, even with all that water gushing out of the center stack, the pilot light and burner managed to stay lit.

The best deal the wife and I could find installed was a 50 gal Kenmore/Sears. Luckily, it's more efficient, so it works about as well as the old 95 gal one. We did crank it up to 120 degrees F (a bit dangerous) so the hot water would "last" a bit longer for showers and we can use less hot water by volume in the mix.

Little did I know then, that within a scant 1.5 years later, I'd have four baby daughters! That 50 gal tank is fine for now, when bathtime for toddlers and infants is whenever we want it to be, but when I've got four school-age girls on my hands? I might as well start practicing washing my backside with snow now.

The clock is ticking. I've got about 5 years to figure out a way to afford getting us out of our old 1939 Milwaukee bungalow. (the water pipes are mostly steel, another ticking time-bomb ) If I'm lucky and can build a house big enough for all of us, on-demand water heaters are definitely on order.

Omega Man - glad you found the problem!
AJ Dual - On demand heaters should be listed in the top 5 great achievements of modern civilization!

My water heater is 18 years old and it seems to be on it's last legs. Recently, I noticed I kept running out of hot water earlier than normal. Just this morning, I found out the drain valve was leaking (slowly). I kinked a hose up and use it to stop the leak somewhat.

I could replace the drain valve for now but we might need a new heater.

Are there any good brands of tank modles out there? My mom dosen't want a tankless because she heard that they won't supply enough flow for more than one shower.

Re: I MUST have a gas leak!

MoonRise said:

If there's a gas leak in a building, you'll smell it. They add a "special odor" to natural gas just for that purpose.

Click to expand...

I just went through a similar problem without the expense, but with the smell and found out something very interesting.
Oddly enough I just came here to post that info so see my "Natural gas smell thread"

AJ_Dual said:

The best deal the wife and I could find installed was a 50 gal Kenmore/Sears. Luckily, it's more efficient, so it works about as well as the old 95 gal one. We did crank it up to 120 degrees F (a bit dangerous) so the hot water would "last" a bit longer for showers and we can use less hot water by volume in the mix.

Click to expand...

That temperature isn't too hot as far as hot water goes. I've seen 120 F recommended as a safe temperature to set your water heater at. Most of them can be set up to 150 F, which is very dangerous since that temperature can give you serious burns in just a few seconds.

my gas bills was like between 50 and 70 this month closer to 70 ll i have is water heater and live alone lol my electric was only 30 something

zespectre said:

Omega Man - glad you found the problem!
AJ Dual - On demand heaters should be listed in the top 5 great achievements of modern civilization!

Click to expand...

Don't be so sure on the on-demand thing.

I've had 5 of them, and still have 3. And I can tell you a thing or two about them that you won't like.


Also, there's currently some stuff in the works to raise the minimum tank temperature to like 140 or something. It seems that legionairre's disease breeds very well in temps below this level. The new heaters will have a downstream mixing valve to drop the outgoing temp back down to 120 or so.