Have you driven a Ford lately?

I don't own or drive a Ford and after a series service issues with Ford that my family and friends suffered through it will be a cold day in @@@@ before I do. I want to be upfront about this but I still like supporting American manufacturing when I can.

What this post is really about is why can't Ford compete. Why can foreign manufactures open assembly plants in the US and make cars that can stay on the road and Ford can't produce the same quality product from the same work force? Why should thirty thousand workers loose there jobs and plants close here in the US? This is absolutely nuts. Whys should Americans buy Fords produced overseas when you can buy Japanese cars made in America? We should support the American worker and not the American management who seem to be clueless on how to compete. It's crazy to have to buy Japanese cars to support American manufacturing. I'm sorry if this sounds like a rant but I just feel really bad for those who are going to lose there jobs and I'm really mad about the majority of the plants that are going to be closed are here in the US. Why would Ford expect support from Americans when Ford will not support American families?

I'm sorry but this post could be worded much better but I just finished reading a article about this and I'm pissed. It doesn't have to be this way!!

So if you don't own or drive a Ford what was/were the series service issues?

Lebkuecher said:

when Ford will not support American families?

Click to expand...

Ford isn't in the business of supporting American families. Its in the business of making a profit for its shareholders. This is not a bad thing.

The UAW is to great degree responsible for the gargantuan debt service that Ford is under, though management shares in the blame. I live in a Ford manufacturing town, and its not uncommon for a line worker to make $70K - 100K per year. Add to it the bloated retirement structure (GM is especially hit hard in this regard), the slow demise of the SUV - which is the biggest profit maker, $3/gallon gas, and the influx of talented competition, its no wonder that Ford's market share is shrinking.

FWIW, Mrs. Powernoodle drives a Taurus with 95K miles on it, and its been a great car. I drive an Explorer with 138K on it, and have spent $3K in repairs in the last 6 months. Its been pretty crappy overall, with numerous recalls, and this week the belt tensioner decided to fall off the vehicle. I've always been a "Ford guy", but our next round of cars will be Toyotas or a Volvo (a Ford subsidiary). For reasons I can't understand, Ford has never been able to match the quality of a Toyota for example, IMO. It must be a design thing, as American workers are assembling both.

Just my 2 cents, which ain't worth much.

best regards

Ford has to compete with the imports and the domestically made cars from non-union plants. Since they have to pay their workers a much larger percentage of the car's cost than their competitors do, the only place they can cut corners to make some money is by making a lesser quality product. Simple math will tell you that if you're paying your employees twice as much as your competition to do the same job, you won't be in business for long. The unions are short-sighted. They're more interested in making a bundle now than in seeing the big picture. We live in a global economy now--if you can't compete with the rest of the world then they will put you out of business.

Have you heard the latest news?

Ford Bans Competitors' Vehicles From Lot!

:thumbsdow :shakehead

I feel as though it can all be put on the back of Unions.

I KNOW there was a time when Union was a good thing. But these days it's ALL about the Union and to HELL with everything else.

I haven't really looked at it but feel pretty sure my Dodge Ram 2500 was built in Mexico. So far, so good.

But our family has been Ford people mostly. Dad's 1991 F150 is about worn out, but the only major repair has been AC. Sisters 1995 Lincoln Town Car has been good with again, the AC being the only real problem. My last vehicle was a 1990 F350 that never gave me any major trouble until the injector pump died. It was getting pretty worn as well, but no major repair was needed while I had it.

Hmmm... (he thinks)... funny how all I'm talking about is full size stuff they've built forever. When you get into bread and butter cars like Camrys and such, no "US" manufacturer (Well big 3 anyway) makes a comparable vehicle of NEAR the build quality and resale value.

I guess it will be survival of the fittest. It's a shame the Unions won't let the Big 3 get fit...

Tell me about unions, I live in California and work in the education field.

But back to Ford. Some of their vehicle are very good, unfortunately some are very bad and you know how bad news flows.

I have a 93 ranger that has been great until I took it to Ford dealership, because the regular mechanics didn't really have info to fix my originally simple problem.
They were supposed to replace my mass flow detector which is actually scary simple and ended up ruining my a/c lines and broke my cam sensor in the process. Also they messed up my ign switch too.

I always like to support American products when I can, but that experience has me looking for a Toyota now. And I know they have their hacks too, but we do know a decent, fair, foreign car mechanic and feel better knowing that going in for a Toyota.

Sorry about the rantings............Ken

I will never buy another Ford.
In 1986 I bought a brand new Mercury Topaz.
It was a LEMON from the very beginning. Poor design. It overheated constantly. It had a manifold bolt that was cross-threaded and rattled at 53 mph.
After the Ford, I bought a Toyota pickup. It was fabulous. Since then I have purchased two Hondas and another Toyota. They were all great.

WE have had a 1986 Ford Tempo up until last year when it diedo f a crash-related injury. BEfore that it put on 145000 miles without a hiccup. Of course that's with 3000 mile oil changes and major tuneups every year, somethign not every Ford owner likes to do.

The thing with Ford is that if you get a good one it's fabulous. But if you get a Lemon(which is very likely) you are screwed.

That's why my folks have bought nothing but Toyotas for the last decade. And get this, ALL OF THEM were made in the USA. And they just run and run and run and run. Feed it some SHell Premium once every six months and it goes right back to work like new. Some we cannot say about most Fords we have owned...

Uhhh, Yes. I drive a ford. A 92 F150 pickup. I use it about 200 miles a year to haul things that need hauling.

It's not worth it to upgrade.

Why is ford failing? I don't know. Why do I have two toyotas? The first is my wife's and comparing the Camry withe every other car in it's price class... the Camry was the best. As for the second Toyota; They had the only viable hybrid.

If Ford had made a viable EV or hybrid I would have waited a year. Instead, they did the same as GM and killed the EV programs as soon as the California Zero Emissions mandate was repealed.

My Ford is OK. It's 1 year older than my Camry and has about the same number of miles. They are both showing their age; paint going bad, squeaks and such. The radios are going bad on both of them.

The Ford's broken down on me twice in 70,000 miles, needing a tow truck each time. The Camry has had failures of antenna, power windows and cracked dashboard in the same 70,000.

I'd be more impressed by the Ford if a simple blown fuse in the spedo had not disabled the transmission. That cost $500 to find out since they had to farm out the work to a spedo speciallist. I'd be more impressed with the Camry if I did not have to replace the timing belt at 60,000 miles (regular maintenance, not failure). Again, $500.

I hope ford makes a comeback. It's good for the US. I'm not going to buy one just to bolster the ecconomy. That just puts money in the shareholder's pockets.

Daniel

I have a 1998 Ford Contour SE and have never had any MAJOR breakdowns or problems and it has 128,000+ miles on it and still counting. . .Never experience any negative treatment from Ford's CS or services. They have always been professional and courteous. Then again, Your Manners May Vary accordingly.

this is kinda off topic, but check out this torture test of a toyota truck
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2402060372341641699&q=top+gear+truck

OK, gotta chime in. My Ford is a 2000 Mercury Mystique. It had a recall for warped dash, but they never told us, and when our dash warped, they said it was too late. Warped dash = won't defrost, well ain't that special. The fuel won't pump under a quarter of a tank and the trunk has leaked for years. Leaky trunk = moldy car. Now my mechanic says the catalytic converter is shot = $2K.

I'll stop there, needless to say, never buying a Ford again. It was made in Kansas City. My parents always bought American cars, we never even talk about the possibility of buying a Toyota or a Honda. I've tried to carry on that legacy, but I can only take so much.

daloosh

2k for a cat


no way


169.00 or less for my grand am

installed by me of course

vin code l

2.5 v6


56 bucks

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/a...9+-+2000+Mercury+Mystique+Catalytic+Converter


your car probably has a different engine

or this engine/car uses multiple converters

Well, I worked for one of the Big Three (GM) for 17 years as an engineer.

Their problems are due to two main problems (not in any order):

1. Unions (as has been mentioned before)
2. Management

Unions killed the golden goose that laid their golden egg jobs.

Management got complacent and couldn't think further ahead than the next quarter.

In the 90's, the Clinton administration had the Partnership for the Next Generation of Vehicles. The idea was to fund R&D money for a dramatically improved set of vehicle technologies to help our home grown auto industry to compete in the world. The goal was to produce a Taurus sized family car that could get 80 mpg.

Well, by 1999, they had pretty much achieved that.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/facts/favorites/fcvt_fotw128.shtml

80 mpg - GM Precept
72 mpg - Ford Prodigy
72 mpg - DaimlerChrysler ESX3

All were designed as diesel/electric hybrids (woo hoo! Flex Fuel to boot with biodiesel!)

Now, fast forward to 2006. Six years later, see any of these on the road or anything like them? Nope.

Think a 70+ mpg, Taurus sized family sedan would sell like hot cakes right about now? I sure do.

So... could the management at Ford/GM/Chrysler be able to see that sooner or later, oil would start getting a lot more expensive and the bottom would fall out of the big SUV market? I don't think that is too much to expect out of your automobile executives. So.. could your company have been tooling up for one of these 70+ mpg designs all along so that WHEN the bottom fell out of the SUV market you'd be ready? Sure seems possible.

American auto companies made all manner of fun of Toyota 'cause they initially were losing money on each one sold. Hmmm... I wonder who is laughing now? This sort of thing has happened over and over.


BTW... since 1993, that program cost you and your fellow taxpayers about $1 billion. The difference is... in those days, we were running a budget surplus! Since those days, we just borrow the money to operate our country from Communist China.

Also, BTW... Ford just got a big payment from a law called "American Jobs Creation Act of 2004". Hmmm... haven't they been eliminating jobs?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11008158/site/newsweek/

Announcing 30,000 lay offs is a good indicator things arn't going very well..
Toyota is clearing ground in my backyard for a new plant that will eventually provide 3000 jobs in a small community, plus 1000's of colatteral jobs.. My little town is making its mark on the map, thanks to Toyota. Their only stipulation was if the Unions stayed away, they would build.
I have never owned a ford, no particular reason.

Thanks for the link. He tells me there are three separate units that need to be replaced, all are close to useless. They vary in price but between them and the labor, I'm just gonna buy a new car, the Mystique probaby ain't worth two grand now, with the other things wrong with it. But with the converters out, it won't pass inspection this year.

No more Fords.
daloosh

markdi said:

vin code l

2.5 v6


56 bucks

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/apw_shop/ymmp/mercury/mystique/catalytic_converter/1999/2000/apw43d9d6afdc61c.html?apwcid=L1092232221W411a241dbe70a&apwkwd=1999+-+2000+Mercury+Mystique+Catalytic+Converter


your car probably has a different engine

or this engine/car uses multiple converters

Click to expand...

Hrmm... without speaking of Ford specifically, growing up in a very pro American, anti foreign car household, I have mixed feelings on the American vs foreign issue.

In a day in age where my mother drove a Canadian-built Pontiac and was upset with the fact that I drove an Ohio-built Honda, what are we to think? Personally, I feel that owning 'foreign' car built by American workers is no worse than owning a foreign-built car with an American nameplate (or an historically American nameplate in the case of Dodge/Chrysler).

With production items, there will be variations. Why Honda's Civic and Accord and Toyota's Camry seem to be consistantly very good while the Ford Contour/Mercury Mystique range from excellent to hideous, I have no idea. I will point out that some Contours & Mystiques were built in Kansas and some were built in Mexico. I currently drive a second hand 1998 Ford SVT Contour that's quite literally had the **** driven out of it and it has 162,000 miles on it and runs like a charm. A quasi-former-kinda-sorta-maybe-still friend also has a 1998 Ford SVT Contour that he's driven equally hard and was also bought used that runs without any major problems. Keeping in mind that the SVTs received extra attention during assembly due to the nature of any of the SVT vehicles.

I can say that my father in law has owned 8 F150s since about 1982. They are used as work trucks, he drives them hard, maintains them as suggested and keeps them for about 3 years/80,000 miles. The only two problems he's had with any of them was in an 86 (I think) with the straight 300 that had a fuel injection issue that was fixed under warranty and recently with a new model 2004 that had an AC compressor problem after the warranty expired that was still fixed under warranty.

I also know personally of my mothers former employeer that after many Benzes and BMWs, longed for a Jaguar. He ordered one and after waiting about 2 months, took delivery of it. The first day he owned it, the driveshaft came loose from the transmission end.

My wife had a 1999 VW Jetta that had so many problems, it was laughable.

I think that in general, the Japanese makers rely on receiving feedback from actual owners that actually drive the cars they sell rather than engineering vehicles in sterile labs and testing grounds, being driven by folks that mostly probably drive Porsches and BMWs. I mean, the Taurus went from a groundbreaking (albiet unattractive in my opinion) vehicle from 1986-1995 to being so ghastly unattractive (1996-1999) and in the final years, Ford's leadership was so dumbly egotistical that they falsely sold numbers of Taurus models to their subsidiary Hertz just to guarantee themselves of having the 'best selling car' in America while the Camry was clearly outselling it.

This is a double whammy since it costs the same amount to build a Taurus whether they sell it for profit to an unassuming purchaser at a dealership or if they sell it at a discount to Hertz. Also, now Hertz is left with a needlessly high number of fleet Taurus models which they still need to sell after a year or two. So, not only are they losing money selling to Hertz AND losing money when Hertz sells the used cars, but they are deflating the resale value on Taurus models for honest car owners which will discourage them from buying more in the future.

Have you seen the resale value of the Taurus for crying out loud? A while back, (2001, I believe) the were selling brand new 2000 models for half the sticker price or less. I know a guy that bought an SES at my recommendation for $9,995 + $200 and the sticker price was about $24,000. I mean, when the initial sale price is only half the sticker, what can you expect for resale value?

I honestly don't know what the future holds for Ford and GM. I think they need to seriously consider how the greed and idiotic decisions (Pontiac Aztec) has cost them in the long term. In my opinion, it will be extremely difficult at best to fix it. They need an entire new board of directors and they need an R&D team that actually does R&D rather than putting slightly different sheet metal on tired old vehicles.

Personally, I think we're doomed.

ikendu said:

In the 90's, the Clinton administration had the Partnership for the Next Generation of Vehicles. The idea was to fund R&D money for a dramatically improved set of vehicle technologies to help our home grown auto industry to compete in the world. The goal was to produce a Taurus sized family car that could get 80 mpg.

Well, by 1999, they had pretty much achieved that.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/facts/favorites/fcvt_fotw128.shtml

80 mpg - GM Precept
72 mpg - Ford Prodigy
72 mpg - DaimlerChrysler ESX3

All were designed as diesel/electric hybrids (woo hoo! Flex Fuel to boot with biodiesel!)

Now, fast forward to 2006. Six years later, see any of these on the road or anything like them? Nope.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I remember that project, it was one of Al Gore's pets. By 2000 they basically had the car designed and ready to go. Then Bush got elected and he and his oil buddy cronies cancelled the whole program so that the oil companies wouldn't have to face any possible decreases in demand for gasoline. A pity that big business and government have turned out to be worse enemies to us than the Soviet Union ever was.