Top Ten Hybrid Myths

evan9162

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#10 should have stated more clearly:

"Every hydrogen fuel cell vehicle will be a hybrid - they have to be".

I'm amused by people that say hybrids are a fad or going nowhere (*cough* Bob Lutz) then in the next breath pontificate about how great HFC vehicles will be.
 

MScottz

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Interesting, but also misleading and biased. Hybrids ARE moer expensive to buy than a comparable gas model, and the savings in fuel is nowhere near enough to pay for the difference in less that 5 years, unless gas hits $5.60 a gallon driving 15,000 miles a year. There was a very good article about this in one of the car magazines.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=30&article_id=9613

Not only that, the most economical cars are not hybrids, but a couple of the ultra compact gas models.

The only hybrid selling well is the Prius, which some believe is due to the fact that it is the only one that looks different from regular cars, thereby giving it a status symbol among the greeners.
 

BIGIRON

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My wife drives a Prius. Get's 43mpg overall even with her less than conservative driving style. That mileage figure is real -- I personally fill it and do the numbers. It's done over 52mpg on highway trips. I never expected to see the EPA mpg figures, but with very conservative driving, lots of air in the tires and a slight tailwind, I believe they could be acheived.

I bought it primarily as a hedge against future fuel costs and availability, not for the mpg's when gas is $2 today.

The world's political situation is such that we could see a time of no gas, at any price (those of you who remember the 70's gas lines). I can fill my pickup, park it in the backyard and run the Prius for 1,600 miles by using the gas stored in the pickup.

Plus, it's just a neat car that's fun to drive and does leave a little bit lighter footprint on the world.
 

gadget_lover

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MScottz said:
Interesting, but also misleading and biased. Hybrids ARE moer expensive to buy than a comparable gas model, and the savings in fuel is nowhere near enough to pay for the difference in less that 5 years, unless gas hits $5.60 a gallon driving 15,000 miles a year. There was a very good article about this in one of the car magazines.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=30&article_id=9613

Not only that, the most economical cars are not hybrids, but a couple of the ultra compact gas models.

The only hybrid selling well is the Prius, which some believe is due to the fact that it is the only one that looks different from regular cars, thereby giving it a status symbol among the greeners.


While I understand MScottz's position, the reality is that the RESALE determines the cost of most vehicles. If I buy a hybrid for $3000 more than a comparable car and sell it for $3000 more, then that $3000 does not matter. If I keep the car for 10 years, I make that 3000 back in gasoline savings. If I don't drive it enough for either of these scenarios, I probably should not buy an expansive car.

The comment about why the Prius sells well is interesting. I bought my Prius DESPITE the appearance. It's definitely a look that has to grow on you. I have kept my Prius because it's the best car I've ever had. Virtually no problems, very economical, very comfortable and very, very drivable.

While no car will give you the exact EPA milage, my Prius still gives outstanding milage AND performance while being cleaner than most any other car. When compared against my other cars in similar real life driving conditions I get at least 75% better milage. That would be 48 MPG in combined city + Freeway against 25 in my Camry or 12 in my 4WD pickup truck. In stop and go commute traffic I still get 48 in teh Prius, but the Camry drops to under 20. Don't ask about the truck in stop and go. I once got stuck driving the truck in San Francisco grid lock and experienced gallons to the mile. Yes, actually less than 1 mile to the gallon.

This article is actually better than most. The battery warrany is longer in California than the quoted 100K miles. IIRC it's 150K. Other than that it's pretty accurate.

Daniel
 

BVH

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We have 5 Hydrogen Hybrid Prius's. (not fuel cell, but a converted internal combustion engine) Unfortunately, even though they're turbocharged, they have a bit of trouble getting out of their own way as compared to how they were before conversion. Kind of disappointing but hey, its only a demonstration program.
 

MScottz

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they are bad, just remember, like everything else being marketed, don't believe ALL the hype about them.
 

PlayboyJoeShmoe

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I can dream that something Prius-like in a 3/4 Ton Truck (like my RAM 2500) will be available when the RAM needs replacement.... plug-in would be BONUS!!!

In the meantime I'm averaging low 19s over 20 fillups in a 8000Lb Truck that pulls 5140Lbs a fair amount of the time.... could be a LOT worse!!!
 

drizzle

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As sort of an extension to what MScottz said, I thought a somewhat misleading part was making the statements that they are both not more expensive AND not small and underpowered. The models they cite as being good performers are among the expensive hybrid models. There's no question this guy is painting the rosiest possible picture of hybrid cars; which is no suprise considering he is the editor of hybridcars.com.

I can see gadget_lover's point about buying the Prius despite the appearance. I thought they were the ugliest vehicles since the Pacer until I rode in my friend's brand new model. I was won over by the super-cool display that tells you way more than you ever thought you wanted to know about how your car is working. It also is very roomy inside.

I'm sure sooner or later I will buy some hybrid vehicle.
 

BIGIRON

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I think the Prius looks give new meaning to the term "Funny Car".

My fishin buddy calls it the Bat(try)mobile.
 

LouRoy

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I am considering purchasing a Prius or a Honda Civic Hybrid. Any words of wisdom out there from you hybrid owners?
 

gadget_lover

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drizzle said:
I thought a somewhat misleading part was making the statements that they are both not more expensive AND not small and underpowered.

So much depends on your reference point. If you compare a Prius to an SUV, they are small. Compare it to a 1993 Camry and it's about the same inside. Compare it to my mom's Cadillac STS and the Prius is actually roomier, much roomier. If you want small, try a Mini, a Miata or VW Jetta. All of those are substantially smaller. Remember, a Prius is not classed as a compact car.

The power issue is also relative. Compare it to a RAM 2500 and it appears to be pretty weak. Compare it to any "economy car" and it comes across as very powerful. I've driven my car to the airport, flown to San Diego and rented a diapointing Mustang with the 5.0 engine. The mustang was less capable when merging onto the freeway AND it was noisier, cramped and the tranny was jerky.

When driven in the real world, it's a bit different. Because of the great torque at ALL speeds, it will accelerate while driving up a 5% grade, even if you are already doing 65. That's a point where many cars start to lose power. In 35,000 miles mine's never reached the end of an onramp without matching the freeway speed, even when the onramp was uphill in the mountains. If it had more speed, I'd still have to match the speed of traffic so it would not do much good. I'd have to back off the throttle even earlier than I do now.

If you want or need to go from 0-60 fast enough to spill your coffee when you hit the brakes, the Prius is not your best choice. There are others (the Honda Accura comes to mind) that are fast hybrids but not as clean nor as frugal.

The best advise for LouRoy is to test drive both, and then evaluate how you drive. I've been told that the ergonomics of the Prius are better than the Civic. I also believe the Prius has better technology, since the ICE will shut down when not needed, even at freeway speeds. The Civic runs the ICE whenever power is needed. I've driven much more than 10 miles (coming out of the mountains) at freeway speeds with the ICE off. I've also driven more than 5 miles on level ground in LA slow and go with the ICE off. I got a picture of the display when we did that.

Yes, I'm biased. I've been spoiled by the technology. I don't commute at the moment, so I only fill the tank once every 3 to 8 weeks and I love that.

Daniel
 

yuandrew

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ikendu

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gadget_lover said:
While no car will give you the exact EPA milage...

Daniel

Well, diesel passenger cars often meet or exceed their EPA ratings.

My 2003 VW Golf TDI is EPA rated 49 mpg highway. I've gotten 49 mpg many times at 70 mph interstate speeds on trips (with the air on). I know guys on the VW internet forums that break 50 mpg all the time.

The best thing about Hybrids (IMHO) is that they prepare our manufacturers for Plug-in Hybrid Vehicles with significant all-electric battery range. Now that Ford has announced that the Escape Hybrid will be available for E-85 Flex Fuel you will even be able to get a hybrid that runs on renewable fuels instead of imported oil.
 

Ken_McE

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LouRoy said:
I am considering purchasing a Prius or a Honda Civic Hybrid. Any words of wisdom out there from you hybrid owners?

Go try 'em, see what you think. What do you want in a car?
 

gadget_lover

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ikendu said:
Well, diesel passenger cars often meet or exceed their EPA ratings.

My 2003 VW Golf TDI is EPA rated 49 mpg highway. I've gotten 49 mpg many times at 70 mph interstate speeds on trips (with the air on). I know guys on the VW internet forums that break 50 mpg all the time.

I'm not sure what point is being made. Many people report milage that meets or exceeds the EPA rating. Never-the-less, I doubt that any model has hit the EPA rating for every owner. The reason? The EPA test does not simulate real life. That was my point. Cars will not produce numbers that match the EPA numbers.

People tend to discard their own EPA ratings, using instead the better milage they personally experience to compare to other cars. Not owning the other cars, they use the EPA ratings for the comparison. It's almost never apples to apples.

Now MY car exceeds the EPA highway rating by more than 5 MPG on level roads. It does even better if I slow to 55 and maintain a steady speed. That is not to say that every Prius owner gets 55 MPG. On the other hand, no one drives the way the EPA city cycle is set up. I get in the low 40s if I drive a full tank with nothing but short in town trips. That's much lower than EPA ratings.

That's why we have the EPA numbers. It provides a somewhat objective, repeatable standard that can be used to compare two cars.

I think the current hybrids provide more value than just being a steping stone to plug in hybrids. They do run cleaner and they do use less gas without requiring a change in anyone's driving habits. Unlike the 70mpg cars in Europe, the hybrids are very driveable full sized cars with all the amenities.

I live in an area where there is congestion on the freeway from 7AM to 9 AM and 3 PM to 6:30 every day. All of them (except me) are medium to long distance commuters. The majority of these cars are running their ICE constantly. It would save gas and reduce pollution if all of them had at least a mild hybrid.

Daniel
(Not sure why I posted this... Hmmm. Tired again.)
 

MScottz

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Isn't the govt gonna change the way they calculate the advertised mpg? At least it's my understanding it's supposed to happen, and when it does the advertised numbers are supposed to drop to reflect more real world situations.
 
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