E2D used on the street for the first time...

Safety1st

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Whilst on our recent trip to Edinburgh....my wife and I enjoyed a few meals out in the city on an evening....

Each night, in addition to my wallet, I grabbed my E2D....

As usual, the knowledge of a such a discreet weapon is comforting...and as i'm trained in Kubotan use....it's more comforting..

However, I got to use it not as an impact/pain compliance tool...but as a flashlight...

One evening...en-route back to the hotel after a lovely meal....we found ourself walking down a busy road....we were holding hands....my left hand-wife's right hand....MY right hand was in my jacket pocket and around my E2D...

We'd passed several beggars in the town...none of whom had caused us any bother..

Anyway...as we walked along the pavement (sidewalk), about half a mile from out hotel, we suddently heard a scream/shout....:wtf:


I turned quickly to see that the sound had actually come from a young male who was hanging out of a passing car....who was either screaming delight at MrsS1...or in our direction in general....

Quick as a flash, out came the E2D and with thumb on tail-cap.....a bright beam of light found the target with amazing ease....:naughty:

Cue....a quick silence and an amazed expression from Mr Arsehole in the car...........who quickly slid back into the car....shocked...:drool:

I fully expected a return drive-by from the youngbloods...but I think the speed of the E2D and the fact that is was an unusual response from Mr and Mrs Average walking down the street...spooked them into continuing their journey....and not returning for more...:grin2: :nana:
 

CLHC

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Interesting story there Safety1st!

I believe Carrot is collecting flashlight stories and experiences.

Enjoy!
 

nuggett

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I think light interferes with the thug thought process. Doesen't take much.
 

Safety1st

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It relaxed me..actually....as being a LEO..and one off duty...I get frustrated with disorder and unruly behaviour...and have to 'switch off' a bit when off duty...

Normally...i'd have been pissed off that I couldn't have 'dealt' with the guy.....but the 'blinding' from the flashlight...relieved any stress I would have normally felt..

Yipee!...:nana:
 

Dave Huck

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I thought the E2D was a no-no for street carry in UK? As a LEO how do you feel about carrying what (correct me if I'm wrong) UK law deems as an offensive weapon?

This is a genuine question, not taking the michael.....

Cheers

Dave
 

bonvivantmike

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Going to be in Edinburgh in two weeks, for the first time. Getting married there, in fact, at St. Margaret's Chapel.

Any recommendations? Places we have to see? And places to avoid?

Thanks.
 

AlexSchira

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Technically...if they don't end up with a seizure, is there a law against flashing people with a light? I imagine in a movie theater, where I'm the most often tempted, it'd be management policy to kick the flasher out. Traffic situations...that's just jail-time, there. But cases like these, especially out of the country, is there much that can be done? What happens if some rich, lifeless teenager buys a Surefire and just starts flashing people at the mall whenever his mom kicks him off the computer so he'll go outside?
...I've actually seen this happen, but with an Inova, not a SF.
 

Safety1st

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bonvivantmike said:
Going to be in Edinburgh in two weeks, for the first time. Getting married there, in fact, at St. Margaret's Chapel.

Any recommendations? Places we have to see? And places to avoid?

Thanks.

Hi..

Congratulations and good luck on your 'big day'...

Edinburgh was superb....really really attractive city...and without the usual negative/dark sides that one normally expects from a major town/city...

The tour of the Royal Yacht Britannia is absolutely superb..and at £9 each is a bargain.

It's berthed at Leith...about 3 miles from Edinburgh..

There is free parking at the Britannia..and a superb shopping mall next to it...(like a McCarthaGlen outlet..type place)...


For food/restaurant...we went to the same one twice...and it was fantastic...
Blonde restaurant...

www.blonderestaurant.co.uk

Excellent food, very modest prices...possibly the best food i've ever tasted in a restaurant...and i've eaten all over Europe...and some places in America...The venison was only £10.....(i've paid 3 and 4 times that before and it wasn't as good as this from blonde restaurant)...


The Castle is expensive at £10 entry per adult.....considering what you get and see..and that Stirling Castle is much better....but it's perhaps a 'got to see' if you go there....

All in all...you'll love the place....

Let me know if you need any further info..

Cheers..

Gary
 

Safety1st

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Dave Huck said:
I thought the E2D was a no-no for street carry in UK? As a LEO how do you feel about carrying what (correct me if I'm wrong) UK law deems as an offensive weapon?
This is a genuine question, not taking the michael.....
Cheers
Dave

HI Dave....

Anything can be an 'offensive weapon'...but to be classed as one it much be designed primarily as one..ie: a knife...

If one has been adapted....it must be adapted from it's primary role...so for example...as steel comb...that has been sharpened to a point....to use as a dagger...

The E2D..primary..and importantly 'obvious' role is that of a torch/flashlight....It just happens to have a crown like bezel at each side...

So primarily it's a torch....and that is it's main function...it just so happens that if you hit someone with it...it fairs better than a normal maglite for example.

Now if those crown bezel edges has been sharpened into points....then it might take on a whole new meaning in law.....

There is also a lot of 'intent' in the law. So a cricket bat under you arm..is a 'cricket bat' for a game of cricket.....But if you state it's for 'protection'...then it becomes an offensive weapon. Especially if it's been used on someone...

So if your primary and 'only' reason for carrying an E2D is for illumination purposes.....then you're ok...

For example..a AA mini-maglite is a suitable enought kubotan, but per-se it's a torch/flashlight.

The E2D is exactly the same, but with slightly different bezel.

At the end of the day, the law is subjective based on several factors...

1) If you are stopped
2) if you are stopped and what your reply/reason is
3) if you are stopped and what the officer deems the item to be

I've been a cop for 10 years....and my wife for 20...and in the UK...the offensive weapon law...is very black and white. Many a 'rounders bat' or 'spanner' has ended up in the police property store..lonely..as the crown prosecution service have been unwilling to run a prosecution for it's carry..
 

leukos

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bonvivantmike said:
Going to be in Edinburgh in two weeks, for the first time. Getting married there, in fact, at St. Margaret's Chapel.

Any recommendations? Places we have to see? And places to avoid?

Thanks.

My wife and I have only lived in Edinburgh for five months now, but we use "Scotland the Best" by Peter Irvine to plan some of our dates and outings. Maybe you can find a copy before you arrive. :)
 

GunCulture

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Interesting take on the E2D.
In my discussions with police on the matter we have come to the opposite conclusion because the E2D is designed and marketed as a defensive tool - for which read weapon.
From the Surefire website for example:
What do you do when things go bump in the night? If you're prepared for the worst, you reach for the E2D Defender®, a personal safety device that packs a powerful defensive punch into a very small package.
and
its crenellated Strike Bezel allows it to be used as a last-ditch impact weapon.

As we know that in Blighty defensive = offensive so the E2D fits the definition of an offensive weapon exactly
'Offensive weapon' is defined as any article made or adapted for use to causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use.

So from this definition the E2D being clearly designed to cause injury by virtue of the crenellation - even being called by the makers as a Strike Bezel. So the E2D is an offensive weapon by definition without need to prove intent.
 

Safety1st

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I can see where you're coming from, Mr gunculture...and agree with you in principle..

however, marketting something...and someone using something for the purpose it was intended is something else...

It doesn't really matter how it's marketted....but how it's used and how it's carried and for what purpose...

For example....a screwdriver (which is a very effective stabbing tool), could be marketed as the ultimate weapon. Always ready to unscrews screws and open tins of paint..and also ready to stab in the face of an opponent.
However, the carraige of the item for the purpose it's universally intended, ie: to unscrew things isn't an offence.

A screwdriver is a super tool for the criminal to get into vehicles and to force ignition locks. However, the mere carraige of the item in the UK, even in a dark car park at night doesn't consitute either an offensive weapon or a tool under the offence 'going equipped to steal'..

Because the E2D is primarily a flashlight, with a crown bezel, it still remains a flashlight...despite it's other obvious (to some), uses.

I know from past experience that the Crown Prosecution Service in the UK , will not prosecute someone who is carrying an item such as a E2D.

The weapon...Kubotans...are something which is designed only as an impact tool....
However, the "penpal"..which is a pen that is made of tough plastic to use in the same fashion as a kubotan remains...a pen..and not a 'kubotan'..

Have a look at www.niton999.co.uk and find the penpal... to illustrate what I mean..

For my own personal circumstances...the chances of being stopped and searched are very slim in the locations and situations which I find myself in off duty. If however, I were to be stopped by the police, the production of my warrant card would be all that was required for me to be 'on my way'...
 

GunCulture

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Sure, and of course we are just debating the finer points in a hypothetical manner.
However I think you are perhaps blurring the lines between the first and second category of offensive weapons.
As you rightly say anything can become an offensive weapon by intent, but some items are offensive weapons in their own right without the need for intent. Some of these are listed specifically in legislation (batons, flick knives, non-folding blades etc) and some are provided for under the catch-all of being made for the purpose of.
In the case of the E2D I think it would be an extremely simple matter for a CPS lawyer to show to the court that the E2D is covered under the legislation as discussed. It is manufactered i.e. made to cause injury when used as intended, that it is also a torch is not a mitigating factor. Think it couldn't happen? Well we are all too aware that the legislation was drafted to exclude sub 3in locking folders (lockers were original included but this was later taken out) but a bushy tailed CPS lawyer managed to convince the courts that the law was not specific enough.
On 'the streets' the carrier may well get lucky and encounter a sensible fellow such as yourself, or he may encounter some slightly more zealous copper who takes exception to the design of the E2D (the fact it has Defender written down the side probably won't help).
As you say it is relatively easy for you to show valid reason for having an offensive weapon, for the rest of us it would be a considered gamble I think.
Personally it is not a risk I would choose to take, even though I carry a locking folder (not for defense obviously).
 

Safety1st

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GunCulture said:
In the case of the E2D I think it would be an extremely simple matter for a CPS lawyer to show to the court that the E2D is covered under the legislation as discussed.
On 'the streets' the carrier may well get lucky and encounter a sensible fellow such as yourself, or he may encounter some slightly more zealous copper who takes exception to the design of the E2D (the fact it has Defender written down the side probably won't help).

I agree with the thought about 'Defender' being written along the side...being a bit problematic...

by the same token..i'm soon to be taking receipt of an E2E...So if I take the bezels off the E2D and put them on the E2E, I have the same 'weapon'..but it's a mishmash....

By the same token, someone has done the same thing with an E1E and produced a super little flashlight..

E1_e2d_LED_kydex02.jpg
 

IonFire

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I never even thought of the weapon aspect of it.

What concerned me was the flashing of your light into a mobile motor vehicle, if the driver crashed shortly there after, you may liable for blinding him and on the hook for an accident or worse.

I understand the situation probably warranted to light them up, but.

Just glad everyone went home safe an unharmed.

JMTC

IF
 

Paper Lawyer

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bonvivantmike said:
Going to be in Edinburgh in two weeks, for the first time. Getting married there, in fact, at St. Margaret's Chapel.

Any recommendations? Places we have to see? And places to avoid?

Thanks.


I've been up to Edinburgh a few times in last 12 months. Things to do include:

- Edinburgh zoo - I've adopted a Jaguar there :)

- visit Rosslyn Chapel (Tom Hanks was there filming the Da Vinci Code not so long ago)

http://www.rosslynchapel.org.uk/

- sunday lunch at the Witchery

- underground ghost tour

- best steak I've ever had (but not cheap!)

http://www.oloroso.co.uk/htm/index.php


I went one weekend during the Fringe Festival and saw some great comedy acts!
 

Ross

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Hi folks, I moderate the law forum over at www.britishblades.com and I'm a cop in Edinburgh.

The legality of the E2D has been discussed before and the consensus was that it WAS an offensive weapon as it is designed to be a weapon (as well as a torch). An E2E is a torch as it isnt designed to be anything else. I agree that it could be argued either way but, IMHO, it falls on the do not carry side. Safety1st knows as well as I do that if you found someone carrying one, a large amount of discretion would be shown with a decent, law abiding citizen but if it was a scrote carrying one - they would be shafted.
 

Safety1st

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Ross said:
Hi folks, I moderate the law forum over at www.britishblades.com and I'm a cop in Edinburgh.

The legality of the E2D has been discussed before and the consensus was that it WAS an offensive weapon as it is designed to be a weapon (as well as a torch). An E2E is a torch as it isnt designed to be anything else. I agree that it could be argued either way but, IMHO, it falls on the do not carry side. Safety1st knows as well as I do that if you found someone carrying one, a large amount of discretion would be shown with a decent, law abiding citizen but if it was a scrote carrying one - they would be shafted.

Fair words Ross...
As you know..the chances of Mr and Mrs Average being stopped for a search are virtually nil....

Incidentally, I visited the police memorial office on the high street..and spent a hour or so in there...chatting to the ex-cop on the desk ..and also a Chinese cop that was visiting the City....


that restaurant...blonderestaurant is on St Leonards street I think...directly facing a police station....
 

Manzerick

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I'm amzed that others use their lights to get arses to stop being arses... I"ve used the U2 in crowed Boston traffic to make sure if i'm cut of, they know. Most must think i'm a cop or something.. Either way it stops the arse form being a....arse :)
 
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