Twice the Run Time and Brighter… B90 Upgrade

SilverFox

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Does this seem too good to be true? Well it is true.

However, there is a catch.

Jim Sexton and I are teaming up to make a NiMh battery stick that will fit B90 powered lights. These include the 8NX, 8AX, 9AN, and L7.

We have settled on the GP 3700 sub C cells. They are good performers and have a proven track record. They are a bit on the expensive side, but I think the quality is worth it.

We also looked at some Sanyo 2400 mAh NiCd cells, but the GP's are so much better that we decided just to offer them.

Jim sent me a prototype to test. We have a couple of things to work out, but I was getting 95 minutes run time with the GP pack. I normally get 47 minutes from my SureFire B90 pack.

In addition, the GP pack was able to hold a higher voltage under load. A higher voltage means a bit brighter lamp output. Jim figured out that it is around a 14% increase in lumens. The 8NX runs a little bit on the warm side, so I noticed that at the end of the GP run, it was about the same color as the start of the run with the stock pack.

Here is a rough graph that shows the difference in performance at a 2 amp draw.

B90JSCustomComparison2.gif


A while back SureFire had some problems with the B90 batteries. They changed battery manufacturers (we think), altered the way they check the packs prior to shipping, and changed the charger. This new charger does a fast charge, then the green light comes on. For a full charge, you leave the pack on the charger until the green light starts to blink. The older charger did not have the blinking green LED at the end of the charge.

The stock charger charges this GP battery pack without problems. The time takes longer, but the cells only get to around 95F and the end of charge termination seems to work fine.

The GP pack does the bulk charge in around 75 minutes, then it takes about 95 more minutes until the green LED starts flashing. This is a real plus. No additional charger is needed, as long as you have the newer charger.

The GP cells are a little bit bigger in diameter, so we are having to come up with custom hardware to make things work. I had no problems with fit in my 8NX, but we will have to check the inside diameter of the aluminum lights to make sure there is room.

Let me know your comments. Right now I have the only GP pack. My 8NX got hot during the run time, but I usually don't use it continuous. Is there any other issues I have missed?

Tom

Edit: I am now taking orders in this thread.
 
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SilverFox

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

Wow, it's a little bit hard to read the legend on the graph...

The green line is the GP 3700 pack, the red line is the Sanyo 2400 NiCd pack that we were playing with, and the black line is the stock B90 (1800 mAh, I think) pack.

Tom
 

PGP

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

Sounds great. I was planning on getting a third B90 since it seems like one of them is not holding a charge for very long. The only problem I will have is that my 9AN charger is the old style that does not blink! The GP 3700 pack wont work with that charger at all!

Patrick
 

DonX_Fi

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

I also have older type charge in My 8XN, but still this Is VERY GOOD news.
Sure I want new batteries. That would get my old workhorse alive again.
:)
 

SilverFox

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

Hello Patric and Juha,

I have not tried charging the GP pack in the older SureFire charger, so I don't know if there are any issues with it or not. I may have to try and find one locally and try it out.

We did not know if it would work on the charger at all. I was very pleased that it worked fine.

Perhaps you can get a deal from SureFire on a charger upgrade...

Tom
 

missionaryman

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

why would you use the GP3700's when this is what the supplier advises: "Consider Elite 3600 instead. Better performance and lower price guaranteed.Try IB3800 or Elite3600's. Both outperform GP3700 and cost less."????

wouldn't it be better to use the IB4200? They are meant to be able to sustain even better voltage and have another 500mah capacity.
I don't mean to be abrupt but to me it just looks like a no brainer.
 

SilverFox

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

Hello Missionaryman,

We chose the GP 3700 cells because they are high quality, consistent in capacity and performance from cell to cell, have a high cycle life, don't leak, have the right diameter and length for our application, and held up very well at the expected 2 amp current draw in our application.

The IB 4200 cells are very attractive, but they are just too big to fit, the same goes for the Elite 3600 cells.

So, do you have a light that uses the B90 battery that you are interested in getting better performance from?

Tom
 

hector

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

Looks great, 95 minutes would be a nice improvement. That's a whole evening of monkeying around for me. Nice not to have to change cells. Only little worry is that with brighter output, how much do you think the life of the bulb could get shortened, since the SFs are already overdriven with a 30 hour life?
 

CLHC

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

Wow this is interesting news! The batteries running my SureFire 8X and SF.9N have outlived their usefullness allowing on "sprints" with lower light output. Looking forward to hear more on these batteries!

Thanks!
 

SilverFox

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

Hello Hector,

I only have an 8NX. The stock battery pack seems to under drive this lamp a bit. My current lamp is the original that came with the light. This light has been used a lot over the last 18 months, and is still going strong. I have not tracked the actual hours of use, but am pretty sure I am over 30 hours.

I don't know how much life expectancy you loose, but Jim figured that the increase in voltage will amount to a 14% increase in lumens. I believe this is a pretty gentle overdrive amount...

Tom
 

missionaryman

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

thanks Silverfox - makes perfect sense in that context, don't actually have a light that uses that pack but was looking into using SUB C's for a different application so been doing some research.

SilverFox said:
Hello Missionaryman,

We chose the GP 3700 cells because they are high quality, consistent in capacity and performance from cell to cell, have a high cycle life, don't leak, have the right diameter and length for our application, and held up very well at the expected 2 amp current draw in our application.

The IB 4200 cells are very attractive, but they are just too big to fit, the same goes for the Elite 3600 cells.

So, do you have a light that uses the B90 battery that you are interested in getting better performance from?

Tom
 

cqbdude

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

How do you tell if you have an old charger..
I had to return 3 B90 to surefire awhile back because the batteries wont hold their charge..
I do have the 8NX...
 

PGP

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

I dont have a problem with the charger! I just checked & mine is the newer model that blinks green when 100% charged. :rock:

Count me in for sure! :grin2:

:goodjob: guys

:thanks:
Patrick
 

SilverFox

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

Hello Cqbdude,

Welcome to CPF.

The new chargers signal the end of the fast charge with a green LED. If you leave the battery on the charger, the green LED will start to blink. The older chargers did not blink.

Tom
 

PGP

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

The newer chargers are red LED lit to show initial fast charge for 2 hours then green LED comes on(80%). After a while (time not specified) green LED will blink indicating 100% charge. Then provide a maintenace charge after that. Read the manual last night.

Patrick
 

cqbdude

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

SilverFox said:
Hello Cqbdude,

Welcome to CPF.

The new chargers signal the end of the fast charge with a green LED. If you leave the battery on the charger, the green LED will start to blink. The older chargers did not blink.

Tom


Thank You for the warm welcome...

I do have the charger that both has a green and red led indicator on it..
I will have to charge one of my b90 and actually watch and see if it blinks..
I usually use the charge and forget method..:lolsign:

Thanks for the tip...
 

js

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

OK. Here's an update:

It's looking like we can do this for sure, one way or another, but in the worst case scenario, there will be a $320 charge for hardware costs, plus I would need to solder on the positive nipple myself, plus the cost of the cells, plus the cost of the pack assembly, plus shipping to me so I can install the nipples, plus some token amount of money for my time to make the nipples from brass rod and solder them on, plus the cost to ship them out to people.

In the best case scenario, I will be able to find a negative ring contact / washer that has a minimum order of 100 intsead of 1000, and the battery company I am working with will be able to do the nipples on the positive contact without a $3,000 tooling fee (YIKES!!!) and for a reasonable per pack cost for this smallish run.

But however it happens it WILL happen if there is enough interest. The more packs that we commit to, the cheaper the per pack price will be. If we do 50 packs, even the $320 cost for the washers will only amount to $6 or so dollars extra per pack. 20 packs pushes it up to $16, and anything less than that is too small a run to bother having done by a company, and would get kicked over into a hand assembly situation (by me, unfortunately).

However, if I can just buy 100 washers instead of 1000, then we're talking $35 or so instead of $320. Then we're definitely in business.

But, however we do this, we just have to do it, because it is just so amazing that the stock charger will charge the GP3700 NiMH cells, and that they fit both the charger and the light, and that they have so much better performance than the stock pack. It's the best we could have hoped for, really.
 

PGP

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

JS thanks for the time & effort you have put in to this, I hope you will be able to find someone that will sell the washers in 100 packs.

I am definetly in for 1 and if they are not to expensive I may get 2.

:thanks:
Patrick
 

SilverFox

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Re: Twice the Run Time and Brighter…

Hello Nigel,

The details are still in the works, so we are unable to know our actual costs. With that in mind, our target price is around $35 per pack.

Tom
 
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