Any rock climbers in here? I have a knot question.

I found an interesting issue of "Rock & Ice" magazine, a beginner's guide. I'm no climber, but I like to know how to tie useful knots, and this issue had a few that I did not know.

Anyway, I was wondering if a classic hangman's noose would be a safe knot if attached to a carabiner when climbing or belaying. (The danger of strangulation notwithstanding.) Say, compared to a trace eight?

I use a miniature version of the hangman's noose on a piece of 550 cord to attach my pocket knife to a keychain carabiner.

Don't know knots, but have thought about rock climbing because some of my friends do rock climb—not the "indoor" type. I venture that this sport is considered "extreme" by all means. . .

Enjoy!

I have rappelled a bit and done a rock climbing class. The knots to the climber were either bowline or rewoven figure 8 usually finished with a half-hitch, if I recall correctly.

I would guess that ease of tying and not locking down on the carabiner are important qualities, beyond the strength of the knot. I don't know anything about hangman nooses.

The hangman's noose is a high maintenance knot. Fine for that one long drop with a bit of struggling, but much too fragile and 'tiltable' for prolonged and abusive use up a mountain as your main source of being able to remain on the planet or breathing without mechanical help.
Hope that's informative.
If in doubt,look up 'Ashley's book of nautical knots'. It should still be in print somewhere.

scott.cr said:

I found an interesting issue of "Rock & Ice" magazine, a beginner's guide. I'm no climber, but I like to know how to tie useful knots, and this issue had a few that I did not know.

Anyway, I was wondering if a classic hangman's noose would be a safe knot if attached to a carabiner when climbing or belaying. (The danger of strangulation notwithstanding.) Say, compared to a trace eight?

I use a miniature version of the hangman's noose on a piece of 550 cord to attach my pocket knife to a keychain carabiner.

Click to expand...

i don't have issue of Rock & Ice, so it took me awhile to figure out what a trace eight was. after an extensive google search, i eventually figured it out. the trace eight knot is used because it places less sharp bends in the rope (which would otherwise compromise the strength of the knot), and that it's a static knot.

it's really not a good idea to use a knot that can slip as an anchor knot for anything while climbing or belaying. this is because as weight is applied to the knot, the loop gets tighter, and the knot assembly gets tighter, which makes untying the knot very difficult.

in addition, as Nyctophiliac pointed out, a hangman's noose is a very high maintenance knot, and it also uses alot of line. if you were to use it you would limiting your climbing range by a few feet, and sometimes that makes all the difference.

Yeah, with knots my opinion is that simplicity is key. Every knot decreases strength, and if the classic figure 8 works, why mess with success??

Here's a site with some diagrams of some of the basic knots used:

http://www.climbing.ie/knotstop.html

However, I highly recommend that you find a climbing club/gym or other climbers in your area and get a personal introduction to the safe use of climbing equipment, including ropes and knots, before attempting any climbing on your own.

There is a lot of experience that has fed into the collective knowledge of climbing equipment and methods. It is my sense that it is unlikely any major deviations from currently accepted practices will be better or safer...

ok im a rock climber and a mountaineer and i can tell you dont use a noose its will loosen when you really really dont want it to and its very very hard to rety a knot when your hanging off if it my favorite is the bowline

I've always been told, and have used the figure eight. The bowline comes loose too easily in my opinion.

for breaking strengths of knots, check out this http://www.layhands.com/Knots/

For connection two pieces of rope together I would use the double fishermans knot, or also called the grapevine knot. Since spectra and other similar high strength rope tends to be more slippery, I would use the tripple fishermans knot.

These ideas are things that I read from several different climbing books.

I just started climbing indoors last december and the only knot i know of is the figure of eight.


However, normally, the other loose end of the eight tends to whiplash, so what i do is end the knot , what the guys at the gym calls "fisherman's knot".