3rd case of Mad Cow in USA

CroMAGnet

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It's all over the news today and could effect many economic indicators. This is the 3rd discovery of Mad Cow Disease in the US.

What do you think the chances of a person in the US having already contracted the disease? and Why do you say that?
 

SolarFlare

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Pretty slim, there where hundreds of thousands of cases of BSE in cattle here in the UK during the 90's the number of deaths in humans of variant CJD peaked in 2000 at 28 (154 deaths in total since 1995). You have more chance of dying of the normal human CJD, and more chance of winning the lottery, than getting either, if you do the lottery that is :p

Heres an up to date table of stats.
 

PhotonWrangler

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I can't help but wonder how much worse this news is going to get.

First it was "It can't happen here."
Then it changed to "Whoopsie. It sorta happened a little bit."
Now it's "Well, it was only a few."
 
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raggie33

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im prepared for the end of the world i only hope i dont have to see people i care about die .hope i go first
 

Pellidon

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My company sells analytical equipment to some of the food safety labs and it is astonishing the lack of direction in the detection of this problem. There are lots of papers on the subject but almost all of them focus on post mortem detection. And I get blank stares when suggesting that Chronic Wasting Disease in the deer population could be related to tainted beef cattle feed since the concentration of CWD is in areas where feedlot cattle are concentrated. Some of the symptoms described and the brain pathology is very similar.

Of course we don't have (or did not have) BSE here simply because we killed off the victims before the symptoms manifest and we do not test all that closely. If we don't look for it, it won't happen.
 

CroMAGnet

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Sheesh! So who should be held responsible for that person dying? Even if it is a slim chance, does it justify it?
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PEU

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Pellidon said:
My company sells analytical equipment to some of the food safety labs and it is astonishing the lack of direction in the detection of this problem. There are lots of papers on the subject but almost all of them focus on post mortem detection. And I get blank stares when suggesting that Chronic Wasting Disease in the deer population could be related to tainted beef cattle feed since the concentration of CWD is in areas where feedlot cattle are concentrated. Some of the symptoms described and the brain pathology is very similar.

Of course we don't have (or did not have) BSE here simply because we killed off the victims before the symptoms manifest and we do not test all that closely. If we don't look for it, it won't happen.

Pellidon, it seems you know the trade very well, do you have a rough idea of the porcentage of feed lots against raw pastures for cow in USA?

If I recall, feedlots is the main cause of MadCow, or Im wrong?

Here in Argentina is mostly raw pastures, but small land owners are moving to feed lots. We never had MCD here, some aftosa bursts but these are very quickly controlled.


Why I ask? because Im an avid carnivore :) :ohgeez:


Pablo
 

bwaites

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So the UK, with THOUSANDS of cattle with the problem had only 28 deaths in the peak year and a total of 154 over the last 11, and the US has had 3 cases and we're worried?

Check out the deaths from alcohol, tobacco, obesity, etc!!!!

You are thousands of times more likely to die in a car crash than from BSE or JKD.

In fact, you are more likely to die from a lightning strike!!

Cause Odds
Heart Disease 1 in 2.6
Cancer 1 in 4
Suicide 1 in 121
Homicide 1 in 182
Car Accident 1 in 247
Death by Fire/Smoke 1 in 1,116
Accidental Drowning 1 in 1,126
Motorcycle Accident 1 in 1,204
Airplane Accident 1 in 4,023
Drowning in Bathtub 1 in 11,469
Lightning Strike 1 in 83,930
Bee Sting 1 in 85,882
Bus Accident 1 in 99,809
Train Accident 1 in 142,036
Dog Bite 1 in 147,717
Snake Bite 1 in 527,561
Fireworks Accident 1 in 615,488

Chance of contracting the human version of mad cow disease: 1 in 40,000,000!!!

So who would be responsible for that person dying? That person!! No one FORCES us to eat meat, it is a personal choice!!

There are greater risks of developing colon cancer from eating meat than there are of developing BSE or JKD!!

Bill
 

MoonRise

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Pablo,

IIRC, current thinking is that the practice of feeding animal scraps/offal/"brain/neurological tissue" from slaughtered animals to other animals has led to or worsened the occurance of BSE (Mad Cow disease), scrapie (similar variant in sheep, known for over 100 years), and other variant degenerative neurological diseases. The thinking is that the diseases are caused by a type of malformed protein called a "prion". A prion is not alive, it doesn't have any genetic material, and yet it causes disease. Since it is not alive, a prion is usually (highly) resistant to things that would kill or neutralize the usual disease agents like bacteria or viruses. Things like COOKING for instance!

Some thinking is that BSE came about after slaughtered sheep remains (with the scrapie prion) were mixed in with cattle feed. Poof, and then there was BSE.

The thinking is that the prions are in neurolgical tissues and not muscle tissues, so by carefully handling the carcasses of slaughtered animals there would not be a transfer of the prions to the muscle/meat products sold and used.

But to me a scary line of thought with this theory is that if the prions are only in neurological tissue and transmission of the disease is not all that easy, then how the HECK did BSE from feedlot cattle or scrapie from sheep jump into wild populations of deer, elk, and other animals?!?!? Wild deer or elk are not about to go and rustle some cattle from a feedlot and then kill and eat the cattle, including the brain and spinal tissues! The elk/deer don't even have thumbs to open the feedlot gates, sheeesh! Never mind canine teeth to help tear the flesh off.

And Bill, the overall odds of contracting CJD are listed as pretty small, but a scary (to me) aspect is that the 'incubation' period after infection with the prions is something like 10 years. And also that the suspect prions are (highly) resistant to most common methods of neutralizing disease agents. When I buy some beef, there's no label telling me that there might be something in the meat, that they really can't detect, that maybe got there in the first place from the beef producer's practice of feeding possibly prion infected scraps from other cattle or animals to this cattle, and that the modern factory slaughterhouse may also spread those same prions from some other infected cattle to the previously uninfected piece of meat that I'm buying!

Also, the statistics wouldn't catch every case of CJD, simply because cause of death may have been obviously something else and thus a complete post-mortem neurological exam (the only way IIRC to find CJD) wouldn't even be done! (Hey Fred, here's a person who died of a heart attack/cancer/accident/whatever, let's start running a complete post-mortem neurological MRI and CT scan to check -everyone- for the possible signs of CJD. Hmmm, I think we might need another couple dozen machines to scan everyone!) The incidence of the disease -may- be much higher than the stats or PR is stating.

... still eating beef here.
 
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CroMAGnet

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Great stats Bill! Thanks. Do we have people in the UK that have some other disease/brain malady like alsheimer's etc from eating the meat but we don't realize that they got it from the beef?

BTW I dont agree with the statement on the you dont have to eat meat, it's your choice, thing. If we are told that it has been safe over the last few years, to eat USA beef and then we contract MCD a few years down the road and die as a result of eating the 'safe' beef... I mean, I dont smoke because they say it bad and can kill me. So if they say that about our beef I need to make an informed decision. odds of 40,000,000 to 1 are good for surviving so not much to worry about at this time but what if it escalated. Can this be passed on children. The problem is that we don't know when we contract it because of the long time it takes to manifest. Also what about other ailments.

Anyway, I'm just intrested in knowing what is going on and this thread is helpful. I don't think about this stuff on a daily or even monthly basis. It was just hyped on yesterday's news.

BTW - WHat about pesticides on fruits and vegetables. I want to share a story, which I may have posted here before but it's worth repeating. I has changed my view of eating non organinc products.

My wife was at the local grocer and noticed the guy who had been working there for several years was wearing gloves when replenishing the displays of fruits and vegetables. She asked him why and he replied that the old timers who have been there before awareness/attention to organic foods had not worn gloves. He said that he didn't want his hands to get damaged from all the pesticides like the other guys and he pointed over to his partner, stacking fruit who had disfigured skin on his hands. It makes you think about it.
 

bwaites

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Well, I have lots more stats, but...

The chance of colon cancer in the US is 1 in 26!! Colon cancer is predominantly due to red meat intake, it is almost unknown in 3rd world countries where the diet is primarily vegetarian.

The chance of dying from heart disease is 1 in 3, also caused/contributed to by eating red meat!!

If those two don't stop you, why should the risks of CJD or BSE?

We are repelled by CJD and BSE because they affect our brain, but the truth is still that the risks for stroke, 1 in 6 btw, also don't stop us and it also affects our brain!!

I guess what I am saying is that the media forces us into this, "yikes!!" mentality, contrary to what the actual numbers may be or are.

Let's focus on the REAL risks, like death by spouse secondary to flashaholic spending habits!!:)

Bill
 

raggie33

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i plan on sending a email to all the cows i know.its a small step but it may cheer a few of em up..
 

MoonRise

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Raggie,

There's no beef in SPAM. So don't try to spam the beef. :lolsign:
 

jtr1962

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bwaites said:
The chance of colon cancer in the US is 1 in 26!! Colon cancer is predominantly due to red meat intake, it is almost unknown in 3rd world countries where the diet is primarily vegetarian.

The chance of dying from heart disease is 1 in 3, also caused/contributed to by eating red meat!!

If those two don't stop you, why should the risks of CJD or BSE?
And those are two great reasons why Americans should eat far less red meat than they do. I do eat beef, but mainly as a small ingredient in part of a larger dish. Recently Burger King added the Whopper Jr. to their $1 menu so I ate the first burgers I've had in maybe six months. I don't eat steak at all. First off, I don't find what's mainly a chunk of meat that appealing. Second, at today's prices I couldn't afford it anyway.

Longer term I think we would all be far healthier eating kelp and soybean based foods (both cheap and easy to produce in abundance) with very occasional small amounts of meat. I'm not sold on a completely vegetarian diet since I've tried it but felt incredibly weak. And mad cow disease is yet another reason why factory farming is a terrible idea. I may not agree with much PETA says but on this they're 100% correct. If we must eat meat, we should go back to raising the animals in a more natural environment, and also eat far less of it. As a food source meat represents a very inefficient use of resources compared to vegetables or better yet the aforementioned soybeans and kelp.
 

CroMAGnet

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The current numbers are infinitesimal and hopefully it stays that way or better. And hopefully we don't get other symptoms related yet un noticed, regarding this disease.

I go with organice food whenever I can now. Milk, Produce, whatever. I already know I have a high chance of heart disease and stroke even though I am relatively healthy. Just hope they come in the twilight of my autumn season :)

BTW This one's for you Raggie!

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jtr1962

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SolarFlare said:
Soybeans eh? :thumbsdow
Yep, that sounds like soybean farming has pretty detrimental effects (although probably no worse than any other farming). I was just regurgitating what I heard about kelp and soybeans being the "foods of the future". The more I know about the way meat is raised the less I'm inclined to continue eating it. The conditions in many factory farms sound absolutely disgusting.
 
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