why don't they sell them here?

i was checking out the mercedes, toyota, and volkswagen, ford, etc.c international auto websties yesterday and was wondering why the US has such a limited selection of cars to choose from. i mean, why can't we also have the option of buying a land cruiser with a super effiecient diesel engine instead of the gas eating V8? i'm sure it has something to do with emission standards but from what i understand these new diesels don't pollute any more than their gas counterparts. and you can even use biodiesel. i'd love to buy a nice 4 door toyota tacoma (known as a hilux for the rest of the world) but not with a V6 that doesn't even break 20mpg! anyone know if there are plans to sell more diesel models in the US? man, i'd love to have one of those mercedes vans too, very nice.

Perception, Nitrous Oxide (NO) emissions, and higher cost for diesel fuel than gasoline lead the way.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2006/112_news47/index.html

nice article. thanks for the link.

There are ardent diesel fans in the US, but there still a lot of drawbacks.

It's not true that "these new diesels don't pollute any more than their gas counterparts". Not yet. The fuel diesel in the US has a high sulpher level which prevents them from being as clean as they could otherwise be. New standards will be requiring highly refined, low sulpher diesel in the next few years. Even then, they will require special particulate traps if they are to be "as clean as" a conventional car.

I remember the diesels of the 70's. They were lightly modified gas engines. They did not hold up well. They did not have the highly computerized fuel control systems that we have now. They were noisy, under powered and stinky. The modern versions are not as loud, nor quite as stinky. I still prefer a hybrid since it's cleaner by every measure.

Daniel

gadget_lover said:

There are ardent diesel fans in the US

Click to expand...

:rock: :rock: :rock:

I've been intrigued by the Toyota Hilux ever since I saw the Top Gear video.

For those who haven't heard about it, the episode portrays several attempts to kill a Hilux by drowning, driving it through a building, dropping stuff on it, setting it on fire, etc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/prog28/toyota.shtml

We drove a Hi-Lux across a swelling stream once. The water covered the truck for a few instants (it wasn't *that* high - maybe half way up the door, but the "wave action" came over us).

On hindsight, it was a very dangerous thing to do. But, it was either that or become trapped on the wrong side of the stream for God knows how long. A friend of my father died in a similar situation. They hit a large boulder as they were crossing the stream and were almost immediately washed down by a flash-flood coming down stream. It's all about timing...

We used Hi-Lux's in one of the research projects I worked for back home. You would not believe the kind of mudholes (literally) those trucks are capable of getting you out of, or the kind of roads they're able to go on. Only a D6 can go beyond where a Hi-Lux will.

All I know is now that I've been "dieseling" for several years I could NEVER go back.

My '03 Ram 2500 Cummins is hanging out at about 19 flat average over 60+ fillups.

Yes, diesel costs more than regular. But a gasser forced to pull around 8,000lbs always, and very often over 5,000lbs towed would be doing well to average 12!!!

The Beast (1990 F350 Crew) was at least three pretty much trouble free years of 14.5ish before that. Also doing a lot of grunt work that a gasser would have hated.

I lust after a TDI Golf, but see little chance of ever getting one....

I have VERY little desire to go where only a D6 could go beyond..

What the heck is a D6 anyhow?????

Oh, ok.

Not too practical unless it's exactly what the job calls for....

in 1985 and 1986, ford sold a tempo diesel. friend of mine in louisville, ky had one. he was able to get 54 mpg on the highway! his lowest was 44 mpg(hwy). this was a 4 door car with a/c. only problem was some overheating in stop and go traffic at about 5mph. been looking for one for years. finally found an ad for one in the newspaper. when i called to go see it, i was told about 25 people had already called and the car was long gone. seems i am not the only one looking. costs about $800-1000 plus refurbish if need. est. total for me was about $3000. lots cheaper than a hybrid, but not as nice.

it feels to me like car companies treat the american market with fear and lots of voodoo ceremony because they dont have a single clue as to what the american market would actually buy. Most other countries they might be able to open up to something new on a smaller scale, but here they think they need to ship out a bazillion cars to have in every dealer in every state costing a lot more when they get it wrong.

I'm absolutely certain that they could introduce a LOT of more interesting things here and that the market would support a LOT more diversity if they could manage to roll it out here. For example I would have bought the diesel engine option for the Mazda5 I just bought if I could have. But I can't even order the cargo cover or roof rack in america yet! I'd have to ship them from Canada or further away.

So mostly I'd just chalk it up to stupidity on the part of the auto makers that seem to be able to follow the latest trend for tall panel cars in Japan, but haven't a clue that I'd rather have a diesel or a full hybrid here in America. They are still operating under the illusion that there might be a single car, or line of cars that would meet everybody's needs. So instead of giving us more choice and more options, they search for some mythical super something that will sell to everyone. They are very disconnected from reality as most management of really large companies

i wish Ford had sent over the Cosworths and Tickford Falcons

tygger said:

i was checking out the mercedes, toyota, and volkswagen, ford, etc.c international auto websties yesterday and was wondering why the US has such a limited selection of cars to choose from.

Click to expand...

Well, it's the same everywhere, There are a lot of american and asian cars that aren't available to us europeans. I guess that it's just marketing, don't offer it if there aren't enough buyers.

There are a lot of american cars that I would love to own, but it's just not affordable. I looked around on the net a bit, and it seems that a lot of trucks/suvs do about 20 mpg when mostly on the freeway. A round trip to my parents is just about 100 miles. so that would cost me 5 gallons of fuel.... and after some quick maths converting euro to dollar and metric to imperial, that would cost me $31,15 (with current fuelprice being $6,23 per gallon, or 1,395 euro per liter)
In a country with fuelprices like that, more economic cars will sell more, so thats what the manufacturers concentrate on. If fuelprices are as low as in the US, it doesn't really matter if a car consumes a bit more fuel...

I think its a mass conspiracy to ruin the earth by the big oil companies, Bush and Halliburton. I ve heard Ford, GM and a few other car companies have the same cookie cutter cars here that over seas are diesel and get 60+ mpg. Escourts, Cavaliers and the other cheap crap cars that get slightly better fuel economy than the larger trucks thoes companys offer.

I had a vw dasher dated from 1979 that got 49mpg diesel and about 10-15 years ago GM had the Geometro that got up to 60mpg 3 door hatch back gas engine.

Anyway, anyone watch the sebring 12 hour race today? Audi has 2 diesel cars that were running first and second. THey were rather quiet and the first two fastests.

No conspiracy is needed. The auto companies have made great profits for their management without having to take a risk with other designs.

It's amazing how we remember things. The 60mpg 3 door hatch back geo only got 60 MPG in the very best of circumstances. Normal driving was much worse, especially if you had to negotiate a grade. I rode in the back seat of a geo metro once. It was a "sit sideways" kind of car. Even so, for commuting it was not too bad. That's why my buddy bought it. He got way less than 50 MPG.

The 1979 VW Dasher was a neat car, but again it was small. Driver and three adults IF they were all good friends. It was hardly fast. Those that complain that the original Prius was too slow with a 0-60 in the mid teens would howl about the "dasher".

It's easy to make a high efficency car. All you have to do is sacrifice everything else. Just tune for max efficiency and forget about polution, longevity and performance.

I like watching Top Gear too. I was very surprised to see a review of one of the chevy sedans. It was basically portrayed as an overindulgent, over sized, poor handling well equipped somewhat exotic sled. Even so, the host was drooling over the prospect of having one. It seems the europeans would like to be able to buy US models too. The key is they want the opportunity, not necessarily that they want to own one.

I'd like to be able to buy a Morgan too.

Daniel

Honestly, I have no idea why Ford and Chevy dont offer diesels in half ton pickups or cars. I mean, Mercedes has had diesel passenger cars available since at least the early 80s, if not before then. My wife has an '85 300 D that gets around 30 MPG on the interstate, and it's probably close to a 3 ton car.

Personally, I could never go back to gas. My first car was an '89 Suburban with a 6.2 diesel, then my '94 F-250 with a 7.3 Powerstroke. The first time I tried to drive a friend's 5 speed F-150, I stalled it out because I was so used to being able to take off in 2nd gear in my truck.

I personally want to see how the Jeep Liberty does with the CRD. I've heard it's got a really rough idle and low power, which really disappoints me. Jeep and Merdeces share the same parent company, so I would think they might borrow some ideas from the Mercedes diesels, which are insanely smooth now.

As soon as I can build a shop, I plan to swap an old turbocharged Benz 5 cylinder diesel into a Jeep Cherokee and have one heck of a rock crawling truck. :rock:

Honestly, I have no idea why Ford and Chevy dont offer diesels in half ton pickups or cars.

Click to expand...

It's really simple. They don't meet polution standards with readily available fuel. There are a few excpetions.

The 85 300 D isa beautiful car. BUT... I had the misfortune to be stuck behind one while crossing the Sierra Nevada mountain range. The idiot was driving slow in the single lane - no passing area and belching smoke. The passing lanes were more level and straight, so he'd punch it (belching more smoke) and race up to 75 or so. I could not pass him since I was in an econobox with even less power. I was too stuborn to pull over. I grew to hate diesels in that hour.

The large trucks like the F-250 have not been held to the same pollution standards as passenger cars. If they were, I suspect you'd not see such great milage nor such great power. That's the same problem gasoline powered cars have.

Daniel

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:

I have VERY little desire to go where only a D6 could go beyond..

What the heck is a D6 anyhow?????

Click to expand...

Ooops, sorry, got carried away with sweet memories. A "D6" is a Caterpillar D6. Premiere machinery for tropical logging operations.

Let me tell you this that I am aware of about Diesels.

The Beast (1990 F350 w/7.3 Non-Turbo) made MUCHO smoke.

The 2003 Ram 2500 Cummins Common Rail Turbo very rarely EVER smokes.

May not have a single thing to do with polution, in fact probably doesn't. But TDI Volkswagons don't seem to smoke or poke along either.

The modern Diesel ain't shabby at all!