Himalayan Trekking

Hi all,

It has been a while since i have been here however Now is the time i need some advice. My mother has decided to go on a himalayan expidition and came straight to me to ask for a torch to borrow (after years of nagging how much i spent on them)

The link to the holiday is here http://www.worldexpeditions.com.au/index.php?section=trips&id=22

I currently own a SF M6, L7 And a G2.
I also have a Inova X5 Blue LED and UV and also a white led inova X03 plus a few clip and keyring lights.

Being a 15 day trek which torch would be best for her.

She told me she only wants to take 1 but i think I could make her take 2.

Any suggestions on which to take if she decides on only 1?

I am undecided between the x03 and the g2.

thanks

I just read my signature and realised i also have an arc aaa which can go around her neck however it only works when it wants to (damn thing costs me about 80usd)

My knowledge of lights is still in it's fledgling stage, but I do know the veterans here would probably recommend another light not in your list; an SL Propolymer Luxeon 4AA because of it's regulation and the more likliness of AA batts among other party members over them carrying 123's. As for your own decision, the X03 may be better for her because of the length of time she'll be away from any supply of 123's except those that she brings. On top of that, the LED will be far less likely to fail than the g2 lamp.

I don't however, know how luxeons behave under the cold climates I'm sure she'll be encountering. Perhaps someone more knowing can answer for me...

Thats a very good point. She said the temperature will drop to minus 15.

What would be better in that kind of temp? led or incan?

where's Sigman? he'd know the answer to incan vs led at -15.

seems he posted an excellent article about headlamps from local alaska newpaper recently.

my hats off to your mom! she sounds like one tuff lady!

personally I'd carry 3 LED lights that use lithium cells. for a 15 days trip, it's easy to carry 2x spare cells to last entire trip. runtimes on low setting are easily 10+ hours. luxeon lights must have multi levels.

light weight and reliability will be of huge importance.

this is what I would personally carry. you may not be able to duplicate.

1. ARC AAA 2003 cpf + 2x extra cells
2. Mclux ti for primary light + 2 extra cells
3. Li14430/CR2 on neck lanyard + 1 extra cell

here's what I carried for a two week backpacking trip to Philmont last summer. temp requirements are different, but intense usage would be same.

1. ARC AAA 2003 cpf + one extra cell.
2. Li14430/CR2 + one extra cell
3. ti cub + one extra cell

I am totally guessing here :

the leds should be a better choice since they are more efficient at lower temperatures. The incans need to heat up the filament and at cold temperatures need more power to heat up?

Someone please educate me and correct me if i am wrong.

*EDIT* Sometime back there was a discussion on how high powered bulbs like WA bulbs blow up when started up in very cold weather. Think the temperature differential between the surroundings and the inside of the bulbs were too great or something. Maybe it will pose a problem here as well?

I'd take 2 lights, 1 arc-style on a neck lanyard for close up work, and a SL propoly 4aa lux. for the rest. Feed them lithium AA/AAAs for better performance in cold weather. Take some spares with you.
I'd choose these AA/AAA powered lights as spare batteries are a lot easier to come by in more remote areas. Not to mention the SL propoly is plastic, so it'll be more comfy to hold in low temp.

All excellent ideas so far. One important point that I don't think has been mentioned yet is redundancy. You should not only "encourage" her to take 2 lights, you should insist upon it. So far, everybody has suggested reliable lights...but I wouldn't want to stake my life on any one particular light (even a Surefire)!. That second light - even if it's only an ARC AAA for backup - will be very welcome if her first light fails!

The SL PP is a great suggestion, and it has great regulation and beautiful throw. I also really like the idea that the plastic would make it more comfortable to hold in a cold environment.

My only concern is that the SL PP takes 4 batteries to get 3 hours of light. Thus one other possibility is a variable-output light like the HDS U60. It's tiny, lightweight, and will last 8 hours on the 10 lumen primary setting (though it can put out 60 lumens if you need `em). Its CR-123 batteries work great in cold weather, and by carrying the same 4 batteries that would light a SL PP for 3 hours, the HDS will produce a whopping 32 hours of light.

Of course, I second the vote for the PD. =)

In sum: Arc-AAA + either a HDS U60, McLux PD, or SL PP.

Just my 2 cents.

- FITP

thanks for all your replies.

I will get her to bring the arc aaa w/ lanyard for her neck with 1 spare aaa battery and the inova x03 with 2 spare cr123s also the vb pelican clip light for reading.

I am really dissapointed in my collection at the moment.

The surefire g2 has such a nice wide beam on it and is much brighter than the x03s tight long throwing beam

I will have to start buying some small low spec sf lights to add to my collection

I am going to try and trade my l7 for some small lights see how i go

I think almost all of what she will be needing a light for is personal task lighting. The X03 is terrible at that. It shoots a bright pencil beam with little spill, not very useful for task lighting, plus it does not have a low setting. For similar reasons, I don't think the SL 4AA Lux is a good choice, though it is a great utility light.

I would recommend something like a 2 stage fenix l1p or a Surefire L1 or both. Definitely something that will run on lithium cells of some sort. The Fenix L1P would be a particularly good choice.

Two comments:
1) I thought that I read that lithium batteries perform more poorly in the cold (NOTE: I could be wrong an it may be the opposite!). Can someone answer this definitively?
2) If your Arc AAA still has reliability issues, I believe that you can send it in to the new Arc company for repair/replacement- check out that forum.
best wishes to your mother!
bipppidie

Re batteries - this is my understanding, most of which I've verified when using them in various temps:

Alkaline = very poor in cold temps, almost useless in freezing temps

NiMH rechargeable = pretty good even in freezing temps. In fact, the freezing temps help overcome the self-discharge problem to a large extent, and so they could easily last the 15-day trip on a single charge, depending on usage.

Lithium = best for freezing weather. Work well into VERY cold temps. I think one manufacturer claimed about -40 degrees C, but would need to verify that.

Re light:

I would think a head-lamp is the order of the day, for most trekking purposes. This would be my combo for a 15 day trip which will be in cold-to-freezing weather:

(1) Main: Petzl Tikka XP (or similar variable low-high power LED headlamp with great battery life) with 3 NiMH or 3 lithium AAA batteries. Batteries last ages if used on low-medium setting.

(2) Occasional use when lots of light needed: G2 (since you mention that you already have one) with spare lithium 123s.

(3) Backup light: Keychain light / single - AAA type light, just in case the other 2 fail. Just enough to walk by.

In all cases, the bodies are plastic, so okay to handle in freezing weather.

If I only took two lights to -15 temps in the mountains for two weeks?

First and foremost, they must run on lithiums. Second, they must be ultra-reliable One light for serious output and the other for long runtimes.

Then it must be considered that the user would be wearing gloves or mittens so a larger light would be good so they can turn it on. A Surefire U2 runs on lithiums, can be easily turned on, adjustments can be made by twisting the large ring and the clip helps prevent loss. Tremendo reports that the U2 was his most used light when he went skiing. It can reach out with a decent beam and be turned down to save on batteries.

The second light could be the Peak Pacific with the AA body. It will run 13 hours of regulated brightness on a single AA lithium. AA batteries are common with others so an alkaline can be used in a pinch. Use one of those Nite Ize head band things for minimags and wear as a head light. The light is $50 and optional AA/2AAA/CR2 bodies are around $5 each.

The third light should be one of those coin cell keychain lights. Why not? They cost a couple of bucks, run lithium coin cells and are tiny. That way you will feel better knowing she has double backup to the U2.

Not sure you want to PAY for a U2, if not pick up one of the HDS lights with the 2 CR123A battery packs to aid in runtime and make the light longer for the gloved hand.

I'd probably go with an Arc AAA around my neck, then a SL PP 4AA Lux for general use and a Princeton Tec EOS headlamp for those times when I need both hands free.

All three are pretty reliable lights, two run on AAAs, one on AAs, and all three can take lithiums.

Get her a good headlamp that will take some lithium cells for the cold. Don't even think about any other types of batteries, especially rechargables. It gets complicated when overseas with different power supplies

I absolutely hate to have any sort of handheld light in rugged terrain. It is simply a hinderance.

A small long runtime light is good for around camp, but that is about it.

I would suggest a good headlamp, then a small lightweight light. Try to match them to use the same cells.

Another light just occured to me, one that I never thought I'd recomend, but one that I think will fit her purposes very well, and that is the Inova 24/7. It is more of a personal area light, so it will have to be complimented by something more powerful. The benefits of the 24/7 is that its plastic, so cold temps won't make it as uncomfortable to hold as metal; it runs on a 123, so she'll have the advantage of lithiums in cold temps; it lasts for a long time on said battery; and it can do head lamp duty when needed. Here's the full rundown on it: http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/inova_24-7.htm.

But whatever you do decide to give her, make sure you attach lanyards to them all, and to make sure she knows the neccesity of keeping them attached to her person whenever she uses them. This way, if one slips out of her hands in the rough terrain that she maight encounter, she won't have to spend uneccesary risk in going after them.

Just a thought on incandescent vs led, and battery options for cold weather:

If she ends up using an incandescent light that takes common batteries (AA or AAA), and you get lithium AAs/AAAs for the cold weather: Watch out for the higher voltage of lithium AAs/AAAs (1.7v rather than 1.5). In theory, this small voltage increase could drastically shorten the bulb life.

I have a Petzl Myo 3 (hybrid headlamp - focusable incandescent, plus low-powered 5mm LEDs). It runs on 4 AAs, and it is "direct-drive," i.e. there is no regulator circuit. The manufacturer recommends alkaline or rechargeable batteries. They do not state that it is suitable for use with lithiums - perhaps for this very reason (i.e. the shortened bulb life). I have tried lithium AAs in it, and there is an increase in brightness due to the increase in voltage. However, I am not in the habit of this, since I don't want to eat through bulbs. I know someone who burned out a bulb in a new headtorch in less than an hour - he was using lithium batteries, and that was probably the cause.

LED flashlights / headlamps seem more resistant to increased voltages than incandescents. And some have good regulation circuits anyway, so it doesn't really matter what battery chemistry you use.

just my 2 cents:
1. most ppl there will use Tikkas or similar, so anything other than AAA batts to get is at risk. Tikka (or comparable) as no. 1 light.
2. any small EDC light, 1 aaa, for having around when the headlamp is unhandy.
3. maybe all two in doulbe as spares. Then there wont be any loose batteries.
4. She wont need a light with some output (if ever, then in case of emergency), so any light running just a few hours (= anything we would consider ok in output) is/will be worthless


A SL4AA, while being a good light, adds "unecessary weight" to the package.
Dont forget we want other things from our lights than the public. And hikers/backpackers are another breed. They will surely argue even against a 2nd light or a spare.

Yellow:

I think there's a lot of sense in what you are saying.

I am a backpacker. On my most recent 12-day hike, all I carried was my Petzl Tikka XP (not even any spare batteries). It was more than enough, even though a significant amount of walking was done at night. Headlamps like that are ideal for backpacking and trekking (small, light, hands-free, various brightness options etc etc...). A hand-held flashlight never featured in my backpacking kit until I became interested in flashlights in general.

I was "brought up" simply taking one headlamp, and never had any problems.

However, the recent 12-day hike regularly passed through points of "civilization," should the need arise to replace/repair anything. If the trip will stay in the wilderness, I like to have a back-up. And if weight is not at a premium, I like to carry a very powerful "thrower" like the SL TL-3, in addition to my headlamp. I would agree that such a powerful light is not necessary. But sometimes it can save time and/or be reassuring while negotiating difficult-to-navigate terrain at nighttime, or in the case of an emergency.

I have decided to go with the Princeton tec eos.

at a whoppinh 90aud which is about 70usd it is expensive but its ok it might save a life