Sun's output has been increasing

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2104022,00.html

Wild said: "Sunshine levels had been decreasing by 2% a decade between 1960 and 1980 — a total decline of about 6%. Now they are going up again. Perhaps this is why our Swiss glaciers are melting."

The article goes on and talks about how much of the events we interpret as global warming, possibly being due to this increase in the sun's output.

Various independent studies that have been done around the world are showing the same increase.

Back in the 1970's, many of the scientist and activists were warning over and over, about global cooling due to the pollution we put in the air. Now, two decades past, a later generation is now blaming global warming on pollution.

The sun is definitely the dominant controller of our environment, providing by far, the gross majority of abundant energy or lack of energy.

Taking the results of the latest studies would make both of these groups right, in that the earth is warming or cooling, dependant upon what the sun is doing. Not for the pollution that caused global cooling, where folks tell us now that it causes global warming.

I really do wonder if the real root cause is nothing more than the sun, and all the rest is a bunch of folks trying to wrestle control from one group to another...

It would be very interesting to plot multiple sun output studies, combining their data, then combine the earth temperature from various studies, and see if anything ends up common....

Nature isn't 100% rock solid and steady, and things vary over time and go in cycles. We can't forget that and jump to conclusions like global warming from pollution/etc. But then again it's good that we are concerned with pollution and not ignoring what might happen either.

Just goes to show you don't believe the first thing you read!!!

x

Sigh. Lets keep this above the belt.

Click to expand...

eh, deleted to keep the discussion above the belt.

Sigh. Lets keep this above the belt.

NewBie said:

I really do wonder if the real root cause is nothing more than the sun, and all the rest is a bunch of folks trying to wrestle control from one group to another...

It would be very interesting to plot multiple sun output studies, combining their data, then combine the earth temperature from various studies, and see if anything ends up common....

Click to expand...

It might be, or might not. Still a few things are for sure.

1. We can do nothing to control the output of the sun.

2. We can do something to control the pollution humanity is causing

3. We do have a climate change, and to me it doesn't matter if it's called
warming or cooling.

4. Even if pollution has nothing to do with climate change, it still has a variety of negative effects to our health and environment.

So there is a simple conclusion: Every single reduction of pollution is a good thing, it might help with global climate change and will obviously have a bunch of other positive effects.

Chrisse

The sun does go through cycles in its output and has done for a very long time... the problem with global warming is more recent. The problem with taking just one factor is we miss the bigger picture. Unfortunately there are soooooo many factors involved it is hard to explain them all

There was a report i found (just cant remember where) showing the suns output v's global dimming v's Avg Annual temperature over time. The time line was for the past 100 yrs and showed the average Annual temperature over time did change with output. BUT in the last 20 odd years that trend changed with temp's rising quickly outstripping any increase caused by our star.

We could spend hours discussing the effect industrialization has had, so i wont I am no greenie but saying 6.5 billion people have little affect on the global climate is well.. strange.

This I know will cause contention but forget about control of oil, if I am alive in 20-30 years time I expect to see wars over good food and fresh water.

When it comes to global warming, it's best to play it safe. If we assume that air pollution contributes to global warming, and take steps to reduce air pollution, what's the big downside if it turns out we're wrong.

One the other hand, if we assume there's no connection, and take no action to reduce air pollution, and it turns out we're wrong, then we're screwed.

Better to be safe than sorry.

Plus, so many scientist, now, are on the corporate payroll, I'd have to follow the money before I take any study/theory seriously.

And even if there isn't a connection between air pollution and global warming, I'd still prefer the air I breathe to be as clean as the water I drink.

Very nicely said!

DOUBLE POST SORRY

I wouldn't worry about the sun. Other things are happening too, the Earth is slowing down at a rate of about 2 milliseconds every 200 years. It's going to be a LONG time before either becomes an issue.

Dave

I wouldn't worry about the sun. Other things are happening too, the Earth is slowing down at a rate of about 2 milliseconds every 200 years (how scientists measure this is beyond me) but it's going to be a LONG time before either becomes an issue.

Dave

That's good because my wife is always complaining how cold it is.

Screw the sun!

Long live the beast!

Ive known this for years and used it in my right view of society to taunt the left and environmentalist on other forums. Why else would the other planets too suffer from global warming if its all the current poltical party and a few contractors?

Sure, if turning off a light, getting a car that got 40 mpg would do it, count me in. If you say I need to live in a tent and spend my waking hours using my poop to grow vegetables to eat, Id say you been out in the sun too long.

That article doesn't say anything about the sun's output changing. It says more light is reaching the Earth's surface. Satellite measurements would tell whether that's due to changes in solar output or in the atmosphere.

paulr said:

That article doesn't say anything about the sun's output changing. It says more light is reaching the Earth's surface. Satellite measurements would tell whether that's due to changes in solar output or in the atmosphere.

Click to expand...

Aw... you went and ruined it by READING the thing? Shame on you!

Oh, the air is clearing up.

Maybe we need to pollute more.

For me the whole issue is one of efficiency, return on investment, and effectiveness of the actions taken. A lot of people take the attitude that everything that can be done, should be done, regardless of the costs and no matter how little it helps. This type of debate over pollution and global warming is the same type that is starting to take place in my work, potable water production.

Since water is something everybody uses every day, most people can relate to it's importance, cleanliness, and costs. It's possible to make absolutely pure water with absolutely no impurities and deliver it through sterile lines to guarantee perfectly safe water. Of course, if we did that the cost would be hundreds of dollars per gallon. In reality, there are contaminants present in all water. But they are at low enough levels that they do not pose a health hazard, your body can either destroy them or pass them through as waste with no ill effects. As technology improves, we can detect more impurities at ever lower levels. That does not mean we have to waste tons of money getting rid of things just because we can see them now. People need safe, affordable, and plentiful water to be able to live the rest of their lives. They don't require pure, expensive, scarce water that ties up all their money in their water bills that they would have to live the other areas of life in near poverty conditions. If it was available and if they could afford it at all.

They point is: Yes, we need to control pollution as much as practical to provide a clean and safe world. But to spend resources, time, and money on things which have no reasonable expectation of producing any real improvement in quality of life is a waste.

Some posts dealing with a tangential topic of water purification have been split-off into it's own thread.

From Water - Split from Sun's output ....

Let's try staying on topic.

A minor comment~ The suns heat output has risen measurably since the first life showed up on Earth. Interestingly the temperature of the Earth has not risen to match, it has stayed roughly the same.