Cancer, aplea for help!!

jpfaff

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Cancer, an abnormal cell. Hmm, search on internet for chemical makeup or molecular structure came up empty handed. Research, another farce. They can send a man to the moon, or a satellite to Mars, but they cant figure out why an abnormal cell can run rampant through the body. The main components of the human blood are red blood cells and white blood cells, as well as, we'll say water. No wether your sick with a viral or bacterial infection, your white blood cells attack. Now how is it that a cancer cell can travel freely laughing all the way. Cancer, isn't that hard of a problem. I beieve the money lies in the marketing. Do an online search and theyll tell u it begins in a location and spreads. Bullsh@^. If they can't figure out the cure, then figure out the prevention. If anyone knows of the chemical makeup or molecular structure of a cancer cell please share it with me. I'm not a person to giveup, and it seems to me college teaches the benefits financially, as in research grants, as opposed to helpin the human race. If given the chemical makeup I may have aheelof a fighting chance for my mother-in-law.
 
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turbodog

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Re: Cancer, a moneymaker for millions

Physics, not biology, is my strong suite. But here is the problem as I understand it.

All cells divide at certain rates. Cancer calls are normal cells which divide at a too-fast or uncontrolled rate. Therefore, they overconsume resources and create lumps of material which do not fit into the body's normal systems.

The catch is that this happens all the time. And your body's immune system kills off these mutant cells. But sometimes the cells are not even checked-up by the immune system, they are immune to the attack of the white cells.

To understand the enormity of this...... take 1 cell. Replicate it. Then replicate those. Then those.

1
2
4
8
16
32
64
128
256
512
1024
2048
4096
8192
16384
32k
64k
128k
256k
512k
1m
2m
4m
8m
16m

What's replication time for a cell? 2-3 days or so?

Even IF white cells can halfway kill the cancer cells, the cancer cells can simply win by their sheer numbers and replication rates.


In closing.... I don't think it's the mechanism as much as it is the replication rate. The cancer cell, by design, trumps the body's built-in defenses.
 

Monolith

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There isn't really a "cancer cell." It's just a term used to identify abnormally growing cells. So, there will probably never be a single cure because there are different types of cells. It's just easier to group them all together by calling them "cancer." Chemo attacks all fast growing cells and that's why some chemo patients lose their hair (hair cells grow fast). It is just a generalized approach. The more recent techniques attempt to mark specific types of fast growing cells to concentrate the chemo on those cells alone.

We will see marked improvement in cancer research when individual cures start occurring for specific cell types.
 

jpfaff

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My thoughts exactly. Cancer is a big problem in the world with a simple solution. Cancer doesn't grow with the intensity you stated, because if it did, those diagnosed would die in days. Its simple,figure out why the body accepts cancer as a friend, then there would be no more cancer. I think to scientists, doctors, and pharmaceuticals, it's a money making adventure. Shameful thing is everyone in the world knows someone that dies from cancer. You either die from heart attack, cancer or stroke. We can't do a preventative on the heart or brain. But bygolly, give me the money theyve wasted on research, manufacturing, and diagnosing, and i'm sure to do a hell of a better job. This thread was just for someone to show me the atomic diagram or elemental,chemical diagram of cancer. I don't think the billlions upon billions of dollars on research has yielded it. Weird when you google any other ailment and get one. Someone, anyone can help I'd appreciate it. Cause if scholars can't do it, I'm gonna do it myself. Biology wasn't that hard in school. And it don't take a rocket science to figure out what I told you. Tell the body cancer is bad and attack.........
 

carrot

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Unfortunately, cancer is not really represented by anything physical, chemical, or atomic. It's simply that the cells duplicate out of control.

You can find medical papers on cancer through Scirus, or, if you have access through a university or public library, JSTOR and EBSCO, as well as other medical resources. IMHO Google is not the best way to find scientific articles -- Scirus does it better.
 

magic79

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"Cancer is a big problem in the world with a simple solution."

I'm afraid I couldn't disagree with you more completely jpfaf. It is anything but a simple solution.

Actually we HAVE seen incredible triumph over some types of cancer. Some cancers that killed nearly 100% just a couple of decades ago now have 80+% survival rate. Early detection and new treatments have made breast cancer 85% survivable for 5+ years, while not long ago the inverse was true;
85% died within the first 5 years.

There are others though, that results have not been so fortunate. Cancers that are not detected early are also tough to survive.

I understand that you are angry and concerned, but research has made incredible progress in the last 25 years.
 
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jpfaff

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Thanx Carrot for the insight... Im still looking for the biological makeup of a cancer cell. The websites you gave me, cameup with nothing. Its like a huge govt conspiracy. One the compounds of the makeup of cancer are known a remedy for the disease or prevention can be made. No one seems to know either, yet millions of americans are paying out of the kazoo, wetheir they got the money or not. Life began as a carbon atom. It evolved. Now were alot more advanced organically. Chemistry and electronics are similar. You can't find the voltage for your new driver you created. What do u do. You start back in the beginning and intillectually figure out what went wrong. Cancer is the same way. Their are too many people dying for no reason. Cancer is simple, and scholars are looking to deep for the solution. Protein based problems can be solved easily. Somebody give me the schematic of cancer please. I dont think their is one..
 

greenlight

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check out rational therapeutics and their evaluation on quackwatch. My mother used RT to test her cancer, and was finally able to get a doctor to treat her with the chemo agents that seemed reactive. In the end she succombed to the cancer, but she had 9 symptom free years.

There's no real way to know whether the test is good or not, but the small price of the test gives you at least some information about your cancer. Not knowing might cost more.
 

Mike Painter

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A casual search on "cancer cell structure" yields any number of Google hits describing exactly what you are looking for.
If it were a simple solution, there would be any number of people who had discovered it working from first cause.
If any one of them were altruistic or greedy they would revel or sell the solution, making billions and replacing the group you think are behind stopping a simple solution.
Your claim that millions of people are involved in such a coverup is unlikley as the cost of paying off these people would eat at the profits.

I don't know what level of biology you found easy but unless you have a PhD in th subject you have not started yet. Even at the paramedic level the knowledge required is impressive, RN's have a lot more and they don't comepare with what the average MD needs to know.

Progress is being made at a great rate but the fact is that most cancers are something older people get and the solution is non trivial.
 

jpfaff

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Actually, doing my own research came up with a break. In each and everyone of us is DNA, Mitochondrial DNA comes from our mother. Mitochondria intern have thier own DNA. Amazingly these Mitochondria convert organic material into energy for these cells. Commonly cells, and organism, find things that are easily digested. Sucrose, meaning sugar is well digested by all organisms. Funny how cancer patients are diagnosed by a PET scan, which introduces sugar into their blood for the cancer to devour, like a t-bone or porterhouse for humans. Hmmm, I've done some research, except for cancer cell, and all things are common, carbon hydrogen, and oxygen.. But sugar is same three, but alot more molecular weight than water C12H11O11. Go figure. The cure is simple figure it out, or I will. I'm in no way here to make money just to help my family...
 

carrot

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I can't quite grokk what you're saying. Where are you getting with the mitochondria bit? Are you saying cancerous cells have something different in their mitochondria? And do you mean that cancerous cells do not have C12-H11-O11? What is C12-H11-O11? A simple sugar is actually C6-H12-O6, and more complex sugars (starches, or carbohydrates) are just chains of simple sugars. Additionally, there is not just one arrangement of the six carbons, twelve hydrogens and six oxygens, but many -- and so we have fructose, glucose and sucrose, known as the simple sugars.

If we look at what we call 'carcinogenic' materials, we consider those with said label to be cancerous, as in something that can cause cancer in cells, especially if one has a genetic predisposition to cancer. Some carcinogenic materials are known to be mutagens, which create mutations in DNA, some of which are readily apparent in the phenotype of an individual, and some which are more subtle, like cancer. It is fairly easy to go on from there to assume that something is causing the cell to suddenly stop its normal processes and go haywire, growing and reproducing at an abnormal rate, destroying neighbor cells in its progress. So it is pretty easy to understand what triggers cancer in some patients, yet less apparent on how to stop it completely.
 

jpfaff

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Carrot,
I'm actually getting excited, but no mytochondria are the powerplants of every cell. They thrive on glucose, or in bioligical terms ATP. Their byproduct is called phosperous. Amazing when considering the human body contains 800 grams of the stuff. What the hell does that mean?. Simple all elements in life contain carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen.. Some don't. Mytochondria is mentioned many times in college thesis's. Here's an example that will blow your mind. Glucose burned will give off this in the air C6H12O6+6O2-> ^co2+6h202-686
Now if you happen to walk by youll ingest C6H12O6+6CO2+36ADP-> 6CO2 + 6H2O+36 ATP. What does that mean??? I have no freek'n clue except I now know that ATP is what mytochondria need. Kind of like someone addicted to crack... BTW Carrot you are well educated.. Where r u currently attending school at. FYI, on a cellular level, glucose, sucrose, and any ose, are the main food source for cells. Smoking a lit cigarrete gives you the compound I showed you earlier with ATP giving the mytochondria its food..
 
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carrot

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I think that we are getting a little confused here. Allow me to clarify. At the cellular level, energy is stored in the form of ATP and ADP. Removing a phosphate from ATP turns it into ADP, releasing energy. (Energy is stored by creating chemical bonds, and released when those bonds are broken.) Glucose is not energy, but rather the fuel for mitochondria that is used to create ATP and ADP.

ATP, or adenosine triphosphate, is the byproduct of the mitochondria's processes, the Kreb cycle. By breaking down glucose, mitochondria create energy in the form of ATP, and create CO2 as a waste product. This is analogous to burning wood to create heat. Let's get the facts straight here -- mitochondria take O2 and C6-H12-O6 and create H2O, CO2, and ATP. Energy (in the form of adenosine {di|tri}phosphate) is needed to start the reaction, but we can assume it uses some ATP or ADP from the previous reaction that generated the energy.

Sorry, but I believe your equations are getting messed up here -- you write: "C6H12O6+6CO2+36ADP-> 6CO2 + 6H2O+36 ATP." However, if you add up the amount of carbon present in the left side of the equation, you have 6 + 6 = 12C, and in the right side, you have only 6C -- which means you lost another 6C, and that simply cannot be the case. I don't think you can really burn glucose and then inhale it (glucose). Burning implies a chemical change, which means the same thing you burn will not come out as the same thing in vaporous and powder (solid) form. I'm almost certain you meant to refer to the chemical equation that represents converting glucose into energy in cellular respiration, which is C6-H12-O6 + 6O2 ==> 6CO2 + 6H2O + 36 ATP. But again, I don't know why you'd be inhaling glucose, or burnt glucose for that matter. The glucose provided to cellular mitochondria is obtained in the bloodstream, which comes from nutrients broken down in the digestive system.

Now that I think of it, cellular division (mitosis) relies on energy... and thus glucose... Since cancer is mitosis gone wild, a cancerous cell requires and uses more glucose than a normal cell does. This makes me wonder if any significant links between diabetes and cancer have been found, since diabetes deals with abnormal glucose levels.

Edit:
Also, in your previous response, you seem to have (accidentally?) avoided all my introductory questions.
 

jpfaff

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Carrot,
I'm only a married man with two children.My mother, mother-in-law, grandpa, and the like have cancer.. My education is that of high school. But as you can see in the end of your assumption... Cancer and glucose relate. I didn't say I was stupid , just that I graduated from highschool doesnt mean I don't read. I graduated top in my class 11 years ago. Science being my favorite. Yes, I agree I ran off alot of info, but you seem to caught on. Although I don't know the whole elemental meaning you , being the educated one, now found interest...
Edit:
In your DNA are mytochondria. These said mytochondria are given to you by your mother at birth. They each contain their own Dna. What I don't understand is why 10,000 years ago people weren't dying of cancer. I believe it has something to do with glucose, sugar.. Yes, their is evidence that cancer wasn't around back then. Sugar is a mainstay of todays society and its in everyhting..
Edit: I don't mean to be mean when I say your the educated one. Your the only one who gives a whoot...
 
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jpfaff

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Sorry to all for venting I'm going to bed. I just found out my mother-in-law again was diagnosed. Cancer is title given to 2oo things, and I know the disease can be fixed easily. People need to stop looking so hard and look at the obvious. Or keep looking hard and enjoy the money all the while people suffer...
 

carrot

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jpfaff,
By no means am I attempting to imply that you are not smart. If I appear to be coming across that way, then I apologize. I simply mean to provide you with correct and detailed facts, in order to help on your search for a cure. I am certain that you can grokk the bountiful information available to you, but you are probably too excited (as you previously mentioned) to grasp the full meaning of the information you have thus far uncovered. I hope I do not come across as pretentious to you, or anyone else for that matter.

The mDNA, or mitochondrial DNA, that is passed down by the mother to her children, is fair evidence of mitochondria having once been a separate entity, away from the more complex animal cells with membrane-bound organelles. Since there is little variation in mitochondrial DNA from generation to generation due to a lack of the chromosomal 'juggling' that occurs in the production of gametes (sperm and egg), you are right to wonder why people didn't have cancer long ago. I believe it is attributed to the longer lifespan that people in the modern world enjoy -- cancer predominantly develops in older people -- and said longer lifespan would also account for other diseases that were never documented historically.

No offense taken. It's clear that you are coping with a lot right now; stress causes rash behavior.

I wouldn't be so sure that cancer can be beaten so easily; however, I'm sure that if you hammer away at it long and hard enough, you'll find what you're looking for. Where there's a will... there's a way...
 

Sigman

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jpfaff said:
...I don't mean to be mean when I say your the educated one. Your the only one who gives a whoot...
Well I'll say I certainly care, cancer took my father. I don't know what I'd give or do to be able to cure it - I sooo wish I could. However, all this DNA & additional chemistry/cellular language is outside of my current knowledge level.

I wish there were indeed something I could contribute here...sorry, please press on! Stay strong & motivated in your quest!!

No need to comment on my post here, keep the thread on topic. It would be a REAL BLESSING if something of a cure or more progress forward were to result!!

:thumbsup:
 
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