Professional Wrestling Discussion

*Hi All, I did not want to Hijack another thread I think it would be best to cover the discussion in regards to Wrestling in this thread.*

My original post from this thread https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1348943#post1348943 is below...

One thing that always interests me is people discussing a topic, which with all due respect, if not often understood.

It is in regards to the mention of "8. Who think Professional Wresting is real and a sport."

Earlier in this thread I made mention of a quote. It said... "For those whom know no explanation is needed. And for those whom do not none is possible." Truth be told, when I made that comment I had the topic of Professional Wrestling solely in mind.

For the first time on these boards I am going to slightly open up in regards to my personal life. That is to say from 1992-99 I worked in the Industry, on the Independent Level, as a Wrestling Manager. Yes, the same type of manager as others like Bobby Heenan, Jimmy Hart, Freddie Blassie, Jim Cornette and Paul Dangerously.

I took, and still take, the utmost pride in the craft. And the toll it can take on one, emotionally and physically, to me is all too real and all too often misunderstood. I am fortunate that when I left the profession I still had much of my health in tact. But truth be told my body has certainly broken down.

I am 32, and I have arthritis in both hips, knees and ankles. My back and neck are pretty banged up. I've lost total feeling in both arms before. And I have been unconscious for two days after popping my collarbone out and being rushed to the hospital.

So whereas yes, I will agree that results might be predetermined, to me that does not make it quite fake. Many will point to how matches are choreographed. However, many great wrestlers are like Jazz musicians, in that they can have a basic outline of where they want to go, and vibe and ad lib there way in that direction.

Having said that, I know I will not likely be able to sway any opinions, that is fine. I have long ago come to grips with that. However if anyone has any questions, as long as they are presented respectfully, I'll gladly answer them to the best of my ability.

In summary, with all due respect, "For those whom know no explanation is needed. And for those whom do not none is possible."

All My Best,
John

Very well said.

I know I have a HUGE respect for prowrestlers..their craft is very unappreciated by even the fans who love them.

I'm no fan of pro wrestling but I do think that they are very professional & dedicated athletes as well as entertainers, and I don't mean that with any disrespect.

John, glad you got out while still relatively in one piece!

For decades, I go into peroids where I have interested in wrestling and just as quickly lose interest. The cycle occurs all the time for me and currently I'm in the "not interested" category. All that being said, even knowing the outcome is predeterminted, I've never classified professional wrestlers as anything but atheletes. Not only are they atheletes, but pretty darn good actors as well. Not only do they live out a story-line and plot each week, they go thru more phyiscal abuse than any other sports out there.

My favorite back in the 80's was Paul "Mr. Wonderful" Orndorf He was funny as hell in those interviews. Also liked the Road Warriors.
Did you ever get a chance to meet any of them?


Over the years I served food to Andre the giant & entourage, Bill Watts, Lex Luther & others. Big Show came in with Mean Jean Okerland several times. Got to post my pick of how big the Show is!

Cheers

I can also admit I'm in a "not interested" phase also.

I can't handle the abuse, loss of life and injuries there athletes go through for out entertainment.

It's almost sad how far they go. This is strictly Pro, not even mentioning the lower ranks that go WAY too far (I.E. Ian Rotten)

Well, most people couldn't jog-in-place for 7 minutes, which seems to be the length of the average match on TV. And those guys are moving a lot more than a jogging pace. Actors? Sure. Athletes? Most definately. Some aspects are theatrical, but people don't get hurt in *fake* situations. And wrestlers get hurt..

I don't have any interest in wrestling but here's a trivia question:

Name the wrestler/actor (and or movie):

"I'm here to chew some gum and kick some *** -.... and I'm all out of gum"

Come on now - scoop of chocolate scoop of vanilla

Rowdy Roddy Piper - from that masterpiece of american cinematic history - THEY LIVE..... a four star effort from the master of the Pipers Pit.

The toughest SOB to ever wear a kilt LOL

Before I start answering questions and making comment I will quickly introduce myself. My real name is John. And I was trained at the Killer Kowalski Institute of Professional Wrestling. Likely the biggest name I ever worked with was Triple H, then known as Terra Ryzing. He too was trained at Kowalski's and often times we would travel together. My ring/stage name was John Rodeo, pronounced Ro-Day-O as in the famous Street Rodeo Drive. And yes, I came complete with a Rodeo Drive Street Sign that at times would double as a foreign object. Of course since it was from the United States, maybe that makes it a domestic object. *Pauses after a trademark bad joke with no crowd response.* In any event, I have a website, which I will be first to admit has not been updated in ages. For those interested it is http://www.johnrodeo.com. On it there are some old pictures of me, and some text of out of character interviews as well. If you might like to check it out, you are all welcome to do so. Now on with the show.

Manzerick,

Thanks for the support. It is words like that, that make what I loved, dreampt and pursued feel worthwhile. And count me amongst those who have a hard time in dealing with the loss of health, and at times life, at an all to yuong age.

Flashlight,

Thank You for the kind and respectful words. They are very much appreciated.

This_is_nascar,

I fully understand. At times, such as currently, I do not follow the business as closely as I have. And I agree, Pro Wrestlers have an amazing amount of diversity. They are often part speakers, part comedians, part writers (I wrote 95% plus of my own interviews and help formulate a majority of my storylines), part stuntman and 100% storytellers. All of that with one take in front of a live crowd, often after hours of traveling.

Lips,

I agree that both Paul Orndorff and The Road Warriors were great. of those, the only one I met was Hawk, who has unfortunately since passed on. Through the years I have worked with many big names, sometimes as the Headlining act, and others time when they were on their way up. The biggest amongst them would likely be Triple H. I've met many others, such as The Big Show. Also, Thanks for sharing your stories with me as well. It does go to show it is a small world indeed.

ACMarina,

I agree. I am in moderate shape now, but back in the day my cardio was pretty solid if I do say so myself. When doing a house show, which is pretty much a term for a show not being televised, I'd regularly manage 3 plus matches a night. Each one would likely go 20 minutes. At times, I was saturated with sweat. I'd run to the back, change shirts, drink some water and be at it again before too long. And on days of taping local TV, which were roughly 5-8 minutes, I'd likely do four plus matches plus some interviews. I only wish I were in the shape now that I was then.

Chimo,

Answer is Rowdy Roddy Piper in They Live. Of course congratulations to Scrappy whom beat me to the punch!

Never cared much for WWF, but the girls they trot out for "storytime" before matches seem, um, nice.... any comments?

Hi Phaserburn,

I have two schools of thought on that.

1) Yes, some of the women are truly attractive. As for recent names, Stacy Keibler most comes to mind.

2) Ironically, the ascent of females in Wrestling in part was the downfall of the nearly extinct trade of the Male Pro Wrestling Manager. Whereas once there were some well known Managerial names out there, there are not even a handful making a full time living doing so today in 2006.

So it is a mixed bag of both good and bad.

Regards,
John

Phaserburn - we should organize a "pump house" match in your yard lol


Also folks I've been able to see footage of John Rodeo and to say the least, he was on par with what you see in the WWE (better in my opinion as it was VERY well executed). Such a tragedy that "eye candy" took all of the good promotions for managers. A Mr. Fuji vs. John Rodeo steel cage match would have been out of this world!

Phaserburn said:

Never cared much for WWF, but the girls they trot out for "storytime" before matches seem, um, nice.... any comments?

Click to expand...

I loved wresting in the 80's. I knew the kicks were accentuated with a huge stomp and punches were obviously loose palm slaps but damn it was exciting to watch. I took it for the entertainment value and never doubted the athletic ability of those guys. My all-time favorite wrestler is Brett Hart!

Thanks for sharing your website. I saw the picture of you and Triple H. Geeze that guy is huge!

EDIT: I have a question, as a 'manager', are you really managing someone or is it just an act?

Hi Arkayne,

Thanks for taking the time to check out my site!

I'll answer your question two ways, and then go into a little greater detail.

1) The first is to say that 99% of what I would do was just in ring and on camera. Meaning I was not so much really Managing the person, so much as I was playing that role.

2) There were the rare times where I would actually be able to help a Wrestler, Referee or Ring Announcer to get a booking. But in that case, it was not so much me Managing them, but rather me trying to have a Brother's back.

To go into slightly more detail, on house shows I might only Manage a person for one a a couple nights. When doing TV I'd more long term be hooked up with the same talent, complete with a storyline.

All My Best,
John

I think it comes down to this: most pro-wrestling matches have a pre determined outcome, but not a pre determined way of getting there.

Growing up in Daly City/S.F. I spent a lot of time at the Cow Palace, watching Roy Shire and the AWA, including all the greats: Ray Stevens, Pat Patterson, Pepper Gomez, Nick Bockwinkle, Buddy Rose, Jimmy Snuka, Hogan (pre-stuffy red/yellow phase), Road Warriors (pre-L.O.D. days), Bobby Heenan and the Black and Blue Express (Bobby Duncum and Ken Patera), The Gagne's, Brad Rheingens, Black Jack Lanza, Black Jack Mulligan, Superstar Billy graham, Chief Peter Maivia, The Somoans (Afa and Sika), etc.

TV wise, When my house finally got cable TV which brought WTBS, "The Superstation..." which brought Georgia Championship Wrestling, and the legendary Gordon Solie along with all those legendary wrestlers.

I had a friend who was in the documentary, "Beyond the Mat," and he received a tryout with the WWF (pre World Wildlife Federation lawsuit which changed the name to WWE).

The business, as a whole, has been scared and damaged with the deaths, steroids, etc etc. I don't watch too much of it, anymore, as I miss the Old School grittiness; there's too much glitz and glammer and too much emphasis on bad story lines, and not enough emphasis on ability (with some notable exceptions).

TNA, on Spike TV isn't too bad. The WWE is painful to watch.

I'd like to see some newbie create a gimmick revolving around the Old School stuff, no chairs, tables, acrobatics from the top of a cage. I can see a Nick Bockwinkle, Jr. or Harley race, Jr. being a good gimmick, and a good counterpoint to the spandex generation of wrestlers currently so popular.

--dan

Hi Dano,

It sounds to me that you grew up on what I would personally term the Golden Years of Wrestling. That was back when there was the Old School Territorial system, with many Promotions throughout the Country, rather than the National Landscape that is seen today.

I personally prefer it the old way as it seems that you do too. My favorite all-time Wrestler is Bob Backlund. As a child he was a hero to me. And after meeting him that is even more so the case.

I also agree that premature deaths have not helped the business itself, nor the image it portrays. It is very sad, so much so I often go numb to it.

Is the Wrestler is question that you know, that was in Beyond the Mat, either Mike Modest or Tony Jones? I've never met either of them, but I am a fan of their work.

As for TNA, I too enjoy their product when I do catch it. I enjoy Christian as NWA Champion and I am totally impressed by Samoa Joe.

On the topic of the WWE, I still catch it at times in bits and pieces.

All My Best,
John

Sixpointone. I'm not exactly a wrestling fan. I mostly watch it (WWE) because my brother loves it and there is only one TV in the house. It never appealed to me because it's 'fake'. This has been the case for years now.

Now, although wrestling (from my biased WWE point of view) is choreographed, I've grown to appreciate the many other skills needed to be a good wrestler. Coordination, strength, lots of guts, a high level of pain tolerance, a good memory, the sense to know how to act well, dialogue, variety etc.

I've become aware that although most of the moves are 'fake' in that they are not full impact or their intetion is not to demolish the human body as we are expected to believe, they often do involve pain and sometimes alot of it when the moves don't go according to plan. Most of wrestling annoys me as my mind and Vince's are rearly in-sync. (I ALWAYSE hate it when they drag poor Foley out from under the carpet, put him in a painful match and have the opponent win in the end. :angry: )

When I sit down to watch a match, the main thought going through my head is "I wonder what Vince is planing this time?" My mother on the other hand reacts like everything is real and that what she is seeing isn't influenced in any way. (I guess that is what Vince wants.) Generally, I more analyse the match than go with the flow enjoying the little I see only about 20% of the time. There are however,times when I do react like the general population and go with the flow.

Growing up in Pittsburgh in the '50's and '60's pro wrestling was pretty popular. A local TV station had a regular Saturday evening "Studio Wrestling" show I loved to watch. A couple times I made my father take me to the big matches at the Civic Arena. The big name then was local boy Bruno Sammartino who seemed to always be fighting Gorilla Monsoon, Killer Kowalski, or Nature Boy Rogers for the title. Another big favorite was Johnny DeFazio who was also from Pittsburgh.

Geoff