Fenix L2P Rocks *** (HDS 60 V/S Fenix L2P)

Fenix L2P Rocks *** (HDS 60 V/S Fenix L2P)

*** Conditions Apply,
#1--> illumination at a given point is measured in lux
#2--> the 'throw' rating is compared, not the 'overall output' in terms of www.flashlightreviews.com
#3--> runtime data from www.lighthound.com
#4--> Prices as compared through www.lighthound.com

I just compared with the outputs and the runtimes found at www.lighthound.com

check this out (graphs merged from LightHound Graphs)
http://www.geocities.com/vbhute/electronics/HDS_FenixComparison.gif

If you see the Dark Pink & Light Pink Curves they are more of less a match.
(in Fenix Graph scaled to match the scale of HDS Graph)

True that fenix has following drawbacks
1) Nickel Plated Al Reflector
2) Switch Problems (though rare)

YET, at $37.95 + International shipping ($4.00) it does a great job.

Yes, HDS has advantage of Levels etc... but still..... for the price of HDS 2 Battery Tube, you will get a whole flashlight with matching output... with a Real Good regulation...

Now... perhaps.. I understand .. why people are after Fenix

HDS EDC U60 Rocks *** (HDS 60 V/S Fenix L2P)

HDS U60 Rocks *** (HDS 60 V/S Fenix L2P)

*** Conditions Apply,
#1--> Overall illumination measured in lux
#2--> the 'overall output' rating is compared, not the single point 'throw' in terms of www.flashlightreviews.com
#3--> runtime data on low setting from CPF and www.lighthound.com
#4--> Status as shown during any light gathering.

I just compared with the overal illumination and the runtimes found at CPF and www.lighthound.com

check this out (graphs merged from LightHound Graphs)
http://www.geocities.com/vbhute/ele...xComparison.gif

If you see the Dark Pink & Light Pink Curves they are more of less a match.
(in Fenix Graph scaled to match the scale of HDS Graph)

True that fenix has many drawbacks
1) Nickel Plated Al Reflector
2) Switch Problems (though rare)
3) No diffuser available
4) No tactical titanium bezel available
5) No fancy pocket clip available
6) No moonlight mode
7) No strobe or SOS mode
8) ........ I am too tire to list them all

YET, at $37.95 + International shipping ($4.00) you get what you paid for.

Yes, HDS has advantage of Levels etc... but still..... for the price of HDS 2 Battery Tube, you will get a whole flashlight with sub par max output... with a Real Good regulation...OR you could get up to 4x the runtime of a one battery HDS light.

Now... perhaps.. I understand .. why people are after HDS EDC


__________________
Thanks & Regards,
AZLight

After speaking with Henry, it appears that Lighthound's graph shows the thermal limiting (When the light gets hot, and it drops a level to avoid damaging the emitter). He also says that Lighthound may not of aligned his light to the light meter properly, giving that weird "higher reading" on the 2x tube. :thumbsdow

The Fenix is not as good as the HDS for one thing, but its significantly more affordable than the higher end HDS models. That's a fact.

The Fenix is not as good as the HDS for one thing, but its significantly more affordable than the higher end HDS models. That's a fact.

Click to expand...

true.. very true. I realized this recently. (though personally, for me it is still on a higher side of the cost) but if you think realistically, it's worth what it's $$$ for.

(this change happened to me recently) especially when i studied various runtime graphs... (not just the lighthound graphs)

Let's just say they are both great in their respective classes

If China starts churning out HDS quality lights with all the same functions or better at 1/2 the price, there might be a little problem for US manufacturers in time.

For the $$$ the L2P Rocks,

Luckily I have both.
The L2P is a great EDC, as is the HDS.
However, if you ever got lost on Dartmoor (Devon, UK) and had to scramble in the foggy dark up/down blocks of granite the size of cars, through torrents that threaten to sweep your feet away, then along dark country lanes at midnight, with your light sharing the grazes and wetting,you would be glad of the HDS - it's indestructible.
I'm not saying the L2P wouldn't cope - but it's a matter of confidence.
Of course, that's not an everyday occurrence - but it only needs to happen once!

you would be glad of the HDS - it's indestructible.
I'm not saying the L2P wouldn't cope - but it's a matter of confidence.

Click to expand...

isn't it just human, that we think higher the price, more durable / reliable it is... imagine if SureFire U2 with a failed switch in your situation... how much frustrating it would be to you ..

yes Fenix switch could fail to, but your frustration will be next to none. (in case of yours, I would be more content with my McKinley, it turns ON everytime without fail, small and robust, yet 1/3rd cost of HDS, even the Pacific with CR2, 90 minutes will be great)

Frank Maddix said:

Luckily I have both.
The L2P is a great EDC, as is the HDS.
However, if you ever got lost on Dartmoor (Devon, UK) and had to scramble in the foggy dark up/down blocks of granite the size of cars, through torrents that threaten to sweep your feet away, then along dark country lanes at midnight, with your light sharing the grazes and wetting,you would be glad of the HDS - it's indestructible.
I'm not saying the L2P wouldn't cope - but it's a matter of confidence.
Of course, that's not an everyday occurrence - but it only needs to happen once!

Click to expand...

Hey! Here's a thought..u could get 4 L2p's for the price of 1 HDS60 for quadruple redundancy!

ViReN said:

isn't it just human, that we think higher the price, more durable / reliable it is...

Click to expand...

No, it's not just human. 90% of the time it's just plain fact. Of course there's examples of expensive things that are crap and cheap stuff that is great. But, generally you get what you pay for.

ahchoo said:

Hey! Here's a thought..u could get 4 L2p's for the price of 1 HDS60 for quadruple redundancy!

Click to expand...

Hey! Here's a thought. Would you actually carry 4 identical lights with you at all times to take advantage of that redundancy? I get your point, but c'mon.

Interesting... I think everybody is right. Which means it's probably a silly comparison. They are both great lights.
Confession time... when hiking, I take the HDS for getting lost with, the L2P for its candle mode in the tent, and the Raw NS for impressing the hell out of people in the pub.
Ironically, the HDS gets the biggest bashing even though it was expensive. The Raw NS IMHO is actually tougher (being solid nickel silver, and a weight) but I tend to use it as a lucky charm.

This is why I'm super curious about the new minimags, since they are somewhat positioned to be an alternative to the L2P.

And I'd like to see HDS sell a dedicated 2AA light.

Again, all Fenix did was respond to the market demand that SF, Mag, and HDS were all ignoring, which was for a 2AA Lux.

I actually think it has more to do with that than pricing.

HDS is very expensive, It may be a very good light, but if you put a flupig in the Fenix It would compare very well with the HDS for about 1/3 the cost. HDS took the ARC fixed the problems and made it a little better, but times are changing if I were them I would be working very hard on a new light now.

I find it difficult to compare an extremely high quality (HDS) US manufactured flashlight with a world of operational features, with a simple On OFF ASIAN manufactured flashlight that doesnt even use the same battery or emitter.

It doesnt make any sense at all. A true case of apples and oranges.
A much better comparison would be the ARC AAA and the FENIX L0P. I can get behind that comparison I might even be able to deal with comparing the HDS with the FENIX P1. though from a feature standpoint the FENIX doesnt stand up to the HDS light.

If I were ARC I would FEAR the likes of FENIX because they have created a product designed to compete directly with the ARC AAA. The kicker here is that FENIX has one-upped ARC by using a much higher quality emitter than the purple emitter ARC uses.

While ARC may be a sentimental favorite out here the FENIX L0P has come a long way to make life difficult for a little American company called ARC.

HDS has nothing to fear from Fenix. They are in to completely separate classes and unless FENIX does something dramatic this situation will not change.

From a value for dollar FENIX flashlights are a very good value. If I were a budding flashlight freak ( I am no longer budding I am in full bloom) I would certainly gram each and every Fenix light made simply because as the FENIX line grows so does the general usefulness of this group of lights. Soon they will have something for everybody.

I own several of these Fenix lights and look forward to the P1 very much.
I also own a couple HDS EDC's and carry them on a regular basis. The HDS is a much better light FOR ME. This is all very subjective. what is great for me may suck for you.
These are my opinions add salt to taste.
Yaesumofo

Re: HDS EDC U60 Rocks *** (HDS 60 V/S Fenix L2P)

AZLight said:

True that fenix has many drawbacks
4) No tactical titanium bezel available

Click to expand...

http://www.tadgear.com/edged tools/tad_gear_t_i_c_.htm

hmm?

Re: HDS EDC U60 Rocks *** (HDS 60 V/S Fenix L2P)

Just to drag this a bit further off topic....
A tactical Bezel has little or no bearing on my personal purchasing decision at this level of flashlight. The products shown here on this page are little more than a facade. I wouldn't trust any true tactical bezel needs to tiny stainless steel set screws. Nope not for me. As far as I can tell this type of accessory is for show only, not necessarly a bad thing but the idea of spending $25.00 for a fake bezel on a $45.00 dollar light is beyond me. I would hate to see what those set screws would do to the finish on my L1P if any force were applied to the bezel. I think I will save my cash and buy an accessory for one of my surefire flashlights instead.
At least the aftermarket ti bezels available for the HDS and other similar sized flashlights have the purpose of holding the window (lens) in place as drop in replacements for the original bezel.

Yaesumofo

NeoteriX said:

http://www.tadgear.com/edged%20tools/tad_gear_t_i_c_.htm

hmm?

Click to expand...

Re: HDS EDC U60 Rocks *** (HDS 60 V/S Fenix L2P)

Yaesumofo: a couple of days i had recvd a so called "spam" PM mentioning Fenix E1 series are the Eletronic Series (not sure how much it is true) but if they launch the E1 in CR123 format with HDS features... HDS has every reason to be worried. this is because if Fenix could provide same featured light for less than a Half of the cost, how many will prefer to buy HDS? especially when we see such a big reputation of Fenix L Series lights?

It's gonna be an instant hit (like L1P, L2P, L0P etc...)

More over the Fenix Tell which Bin is being used in their lights (especially P'remium' seris lights) and with HDS.... well.. it's still a guess game.

For a buyer, knowing which BIN Led is inside the light will definately give more confidence.

I think comparing the two feature VS feature is a bit odd myself,
The HDS is a programmable multiple output light that uses CR123A/RCR123 lithium-ion batteries. The L2P is a single output light that runs on 2AA batteries.
HDS has competition but it is the DSpeck Fire~Fly III. I went with the FF-III due to the twisty switch (ultimately more reliable) small keychain size and rechargable batteries. Nothing like 75+ lumens on your keychain
Viren brings up a good point though, when it has to work... grab the light that always works. When I go back to the middle of nowere, the FF-III in my pocket, Med 2AA in twistie mode in a holster and a Pacific AAA on a lanyard will do.
My view of the HDS is less about max brightness and more about programmable multiple output levels. After using my FF-III for a couple of weeks, that ability makes all the difference.

Re: HDS EDC U60 Rocks *** (HDS 60 V/S Fenix L2P)

Viren for one thing we are talking about the HDS 60 vs a known light the FENIX L2P not something which has only been advertised. I have not received this "spam" that you refer to.

In terms of the tint of the LED. Who cares? If the emitter has a good color then it has a good color. Just because an emitter has a particular BIN doesnt guarantee a good tint. HDS guarantees the tint (on the GT models) Fenix certainly doesn't do that. I have 2 HDS flashlights. One is a GT one is not. They are both very white and perfect. The Bin code makes no difference.
The tint on my fenix lights while it is ok it is nowhere near the same quality "white" the either of my HDS lights.

The other thing about this whole issue is the simple fact that the fit and finish of the HDS light is way beyond that of the FENIX lights. I could take pictures of the solder blobs present in the fenix which are not present in the HDS lights.
I have personal favorite flashlights the one I grab when I go out the door is almost always the McLuxIII PD or the McLuxIII T these are totally reliable under ANY conditions including under many feet of water. If I had to choose between any fenix and any HDS I would pick the hds every time.
That is a subjective opinion.
The firefly has been mentioned as a reliable flashlight. This may be true for the firefly III but My firefly's especially the firefly II suffered from unreliability in the 2 stage switch. As a result of this reliability issue I has with my firefly II I did not buy a firefly III. When it comes to lights working when you need them to from my perspective the twisty and or PD is totally reliable. I often use my fenix in twisty mode...because it works.


When it comes to reliability, a higher quality, better fit and finish, will insure the durability and long term usefulness of any product.
In my opinion it is difficult to achieve a high quality, ultra reliable flashlight while being cheap at the same time.
Keep in mind that the Fenix is made in China where cheap labor rules.
The HDS lights are made in the USA all things being equal labor alone justifies the higher price, add to this the quality of the components and it is not to tough to justify a 4 x price factor between the HDS and fenix products. Also keep in mind that FENIX makes a lot more flashlights than HDS. It is much harder to maintain high quality QC when you produce in the 1000's vs 10's or hundreds of lights.
Don't get me wrong. I like my Fenix lights. They just do not compare to my HDS lights.
BTW Viren do you have an HDS light? Have you ever used one?
I only ask this because if you had the opportunity to use one you may gain a better understanding of what I am talking about.

Yaesumofo

ViReN said:

Yaesumofo: a couple of days i had recovered a so called "spam" PM mentioning Fenix E1 series are the Electronic Series (not sure how much it is true) but if they launch the E1 in CR123 format with HDS features... HDS has every reason to be worried. this is because if Fenix could provide same featured light for less than a Half of the cost, how many will prefer to buy HDS? especially when we see such a big reputation of Fenix L Series lights?

It's gonna be an instant hit (like L1P, L2P, L0P etc...)

More over the Fenix Tell which Bin is being used in their lights (especially Premium' series lights) and with HDS.... well.. it's still a guess game.

For a buyer, knowing which BIN Led is inside the light will definitely give more confidence.

Click to expand...

Re: HDS EDC U60 Rocks *** (HDS 60 V/S Fenix L2P)

NeoteriX said:

http://www.tadgear.com/edged tools/tad_gear_t_i_c_.htm

hmm?

Click to expand...

Do you know the difference between aluminum and titatium?