yet another interesting concept-LED surefire G2

D@rk Messenger

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that would be a nice light if it ever came into being, i've wanted to get a g2, but the fact that it was incandescent kinda turned me off (i want something that i don't need to change to bulbs)
 

Mags

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You can always get an LED replacement bulb for the SureFire P60.
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/gp_p60lux3.htm

I believe the reason SureFire wont produce an LED G2 is because of heat transfer, or lack, thereof in the G2. The heat would buildup inside the LED module itself rather than spread out through the body of the light because nitrolon is not a good heat transfer material. This is why all LED models from SureFire (and pretty much most LED lights around) are made of aluminum or any type of metal.
 

Lebkuecher

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That would be nice, I have a G2. I believe if Surefire were to put a LED into a G2 Body they would probably charge more due to the fact that there would be no more after sale business replacing the lamps. Just a guess on my part.
 

NeoteriX

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Mags said:
You can always get an LED replacement bulb for the SureFire P60.
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/gp_p60lux3.htm

I believe the reason SureFire wont produce an LED G2 is because of heat transfer, or lack, thereof in the G2. The heat would buildup inside the LED module itself rather than spread out through the body of the light because nitrolon is not a good heat transfer material. This is why all LED models from SureFire (and pretty much most LED lights around) are made of aluminum or any type of metal.
I thought at least compared to incandescents, LEDs ran cooler than a comparable output from an incandescent bulb?
 

carrot

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NeoteriX said:
I thought at least compared to incandescents, LEDs ran cooler than a comparable output from an incandescent bulb?
Maybe, but the life of a LED running hot and poorly heatsinked is cut short-- and the hotter they get, the less efficient they are. This is why LED lights like the L4 get so warm -- they're designed to transfer as much heat as possible to the exterior of the light and away from the LED.
 

fieldops

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NeoteriX said:
I thought at least compared to incandescents, LEDs ran cooler than a comparable output from an incandescent bulb?

Incandescence produces heat as a function of its process. In LEDs, heat is the enemy. I had one of the very early 12 LED Chinese flashlights that were direct driven. After about 10 minutes it was hot as a frying pan. After 20 minutes 2-3 of the LEDs started burning out.
 

FirstDsent

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Most of the heat generated by an incandescent light is emitted out the front of the light in the form of infrared energy. You can feel the heat if you hold your hand in front of the lens. Some high-powered hotwire modded lights can start paper on fire. LEDs produce heat from electrical resistance in the emitter itself. Instead of projecting out the front, the heat must be conducted to the outside of the head or body where it can dissipate in the air. Essentially, LEDs need to be air cooled. High powered LED flashlights often have cooling fins like an air cooled motor.

One of the reasons that LEDs are more efficient than incandescents is because they can be designed to emit only visible light, which doesn't include infrared heat. Much of the light emitted by an incan bulb is invisible in the form of infrared and UV. That's wasted energy because you can't use it to see.

Bernie
 

dmz

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Will the BugOutGear or G&P or Emilions Luxeon III drop-in repleacement lamp melt the plastic or make it too hot to hold?
 

FirstDsent

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While the "nitrolon" body is clearly a poor heat conductor, Nylon is a pretty robust plastic. I assume "Nitrolon" is a glass-filled nylon. Nylon's working temp limit is at least 200 F degrees, and up to 300 F degrees. Delrin, a glass-filled Acetal, is up to 200 F degrees. I highly doubt that the body tube or head would see that kind of teperature conducted to the edge of the reflector or the lamp base. If the LED did create that kind of heat build-up, I think it would fry first. So no, I don't think it will melt the plastic.

Bernie
 

dmz

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So heat is not the reason why SF did not come out with a LED G2 since the 3W drop in LEDs work.

I think a LED G2 will take away sales from the other SF led line.
 

carrot

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You probably missed what FirstDsent and I said. Heat IS very likely the reason. All other Surefire LED lights have metal bodies to conduct the heat away from the LED. LEDs are damaged by heat and run less efficiently when warm, as I stated before. They also put out a lot of heat-- the little E1L gets fairly warm when run for even a few minutes. The problem is not whether the Nitrolon of the G2 can withstand the heat, but whether running a LED without proper heatsinking is reasonable. The loss in efficiency and lifespan of the LED lead me to believe that it is not reasonable to do so. You can indeed have a Surefire G2 LED-- use the KL3.
 

dmz

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If SF wanted to, they can put a 1W instead of a 3W so heat won't be that much of an issue but I think SF can make more money selling metal body led flashlights than afforable plastic 1W led flashlights.
 

carrot

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dmz said:
If SF wanted to, they can put a 1W instead of a 3W so heat won't be that much of an issue but I think SF can make more money selling metal body led flashlights than afforable plastic 1W led flashlights.
At that point, the light output would not be up to par with what Surefire considers enough for "tactical use," which is what the High Intensity series of lights that the G2 belongs to is for. Plus, they are less interested in what individual customers such as yourself want, and more in what the military can use or needs. A 1W G2 LED would serve no purpose in that case, since there are many smaller lights that can be used for low output, and the G2 is meant to be an entry-level tactical light for soldiers who are not issued a (good) light of their own.
 

dmz

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carrot, not all SF are high output beams. The L1 is 1.1/22 lumens only. Hardly tactical beam. E1E, E1L are not ultra bright either.
 

carrot

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dmz said:
carrot, not all SF are high output beams. The L1 is 1.1/22 lumens only. Hardly tactical beam. E1E, E1L are not ultra bright either.
These are for different uses, like mapreading and closer work. The E*L Outdoorsman lights are especially designed for hunters and hikers, which explains the beam.
 
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