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Thread: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

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    Flashaholic* GhostReaction's Avatar
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    Icon15 Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    Which NON DIVE LIGHT would you be confident enough to take a plunge in the pool with you.

    I was so inspired by Don McGizmo diving in the sea with his lights

    So I was feeling bold yesterday that I dived in till the base of my apartment pool which was 1.9m deep while holding my Fenix L0p. I repeat the same process with L1p as well.
    After a 5 minutes dive with each lights I inspected them. The L0p seemed to performed better than the L1p. L0p internal and batt was totally dry while a couple of tiny droplets seem to seep on the thread of the L1p.

    I m so tempted to dive in with a HDS EDC and the ARC aaa also :P

    Tried anything simmilar with your lights before?
    Lights were once incandescent. And halogen bulb were great

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    *Flashaholic* Flying Turtle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    The PT Attitude is also a good little pool light.

    Geoff

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    Popcorn Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    my 6p+KL3 survived in the rain for about 4 to 5 hrs. the light was on my belt when i was riding back on my bike from Penang in the rain all the way down to KL. the rain along certain section of the journey was very heavy and visibility was very poor that i can only see a few car lenghts in front of me. i only realized that the light was on my belt only when i reached Malacca. checked the light and it worked as per normal. i also did not notice any condensation in the lens as well. no sign of any water seeped into the light or body. just some water residing at the tailcap gap area. the orings did a good job in keeping the water out.

  4. #4
    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    I am confident to take any of the current Millennium Series SureFires I have underwater (I have done so several times). The same goes for the 6P/C2/Z2/L5/L6 etc.
    This is conditional on my having checked that the o-ring seals are not damaged and sufficiently lubricated.

    I would be less confident taking my EDC (currently an L2) underwater since the TailCap gets rotated a lot and the o-ring is likely a bit worn and not clean. Also, bezels such as the E2e/L2/KL4 with bezel rings if they are not sufficient sealed may or may not leak, or if you've opened them previously etc.

    So I'd not worry about an E1L or E2L but I'd not be surprised in my L4 or E2e bezel leaked.

    I have no experience of taking a current G2 or G2Z with LockOut TailCaps underwater. I suspect they'd be fine as long as the TailCap was not rotated.
    My understanding is that double o-rings are needed/better if you want to rotate threaded parts underwater.

    Furthermore, high humidity or [rapid] temperature/humidity changes may cause the water vapour already inside the flashlight to condense - for example the window to mist up.

    Al

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    Flashaholic* ACMarina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    I'm a lifeguard, and while I generally trust my dedicated "Dive" lights to underwater duty I've yet to have any problems with any of my lights. Of course, I'm not going to try it with lights that are clearly non-watertight (ie. Maglite) but I'd have no problem or fear with any of my nicer lights..
    I love my Al-PD

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    Flashaholic* GhostReaction's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    AL, kindly confirm that its safe for me to dive with E1L to a depth of 1.9m cause I would really love to take a plunge with it.
    In any case that water will seep in, does it mean goodbye to my light?
    Lights were once incandescent. And halogen bulb were great

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    Flashaholic* ACMarina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    From what I've seen of all of my Surefire lights, it'd be okay. I believe the official word from Surefire is any of their lights would be okay to 1 ATM (35 feet or so), if you can find that in writing on Surefire's website I'd say go for it. I'd do it myself if I had one, 1.9m isn't very deep IMO..
    I love my Al-PD

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    Flashaholic* Somy Nex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    well, not quite the pool, but i've went into caves where we had to wade chest deep in water before, and at that time, the lights i brought along -- the Pila GL4, SF A2, Fenix L1P & Peak Caribbean -- all performed admirably while being operated & turned on and off while in around and under water. since then i've added a few more lights, and given proper maintainence, i'd trust all my SFs in a regular swimming pool, along with my GL4, HD-45, Intelli, FF3, Fenix's & Peaks... pretty much all of my lights with seals, really.

    now if you are asking me if i'd take any of them as a dive light, going down to deeper... depths =P, then probably my answer would change =P the HD-45 would probalby handle that best, although i'm worried how it has no vent and am unsure if that's needed or not. i'm not a diver anyway =P
    Somy Nex

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    Flashaholic* GhostReaction's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    Just did a little read up on HDS and they stated it to be 66feet waterproof.
    Will hit the pool again later and update this thread tomorrow.
    I dont have fancy underwater camera like Don Mcgizmo but I will try to snap a few shots.
    Lights were once incandescent. And halogen bulb were great

  10. #10
    *Flashaholic* McGizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    Fresh water and I suspect pool water with its chemicals shouldn't be too destructive to a light even if it does leak some. As I recall, Trevor once took an Arc AAA in the pool and intentionally flooded it and found it functioned fine.

    I am personally much more cautious taking a light under water in the ocean. The salt water can provide unwanted electrical paths and where these paths connect to the lights electronics, you can have anodic and cathodic reactions that may severly damage the electronics. I took a SF weapon light under a couple years ago and it was not sealed in its switch chamber. The salt water completed an electrical circuit (short) across the switch contacts and corroded them. I watched small cloudy bubbles exit the rear of the light and there was nothing I could do about it. I flooded the head of a PR-T a few years back and the salt water shorted across the LED leads and the electro-chemical reaction of the water in the head along with the salt, I presume, damaged and dulled the delicate reflective surface and I had to replace the reflector. The potted converter and LED continued to function properly and there was no other permanent damage to the light.

    Nadar was instrumental, as I understand it, in getting the term water proof to entail a condition of an item where it could endure not only submersion but flooding as well. The Rolex and other watches changed from claims of water proof to water resistant as a result; or so I have been led to understand.

    In the case of my Ti lights, I consider the Titanium hosts to be water proof but the flashlights themselves, to be water resistant if the seals are in proper functioning order. If a light were to flood, what components are likely to be damaged and if damaged, can they be repaired or replaced? Electronics? Optics? switch?

    In a fresh water flood, the light will likely continue to function. In a saltwater flood, the light may or may not continue to function depending on the new electrical paths and shorts the salt water brings to bear. A conformal coating of the PCB like SF uses would probably be a real good idea if a light were intended for submersed activity.
    Build Prices .... some mods and builds (not 4 sale) "Nature can be cruel- but we don't have to be."~ Temple Grandin

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    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostReaction
    AL, kindly confirm that its safe for me to dive with E1L to a depth of 1.9m cause I would really love to take a plunge with it.
    In any case that water will seep in, does it mean goodbye to my light?
    If you can normally safely dive to a depth of 1.9m then I don't see how taking an E1L along with you can decrease your safety. Unless you are holding it in your mouth at the time of the plunge (etc)

    In your application of taking the flashlight underwater in a swimming pool your safety does not depend on the ability of the flashlight not to leak (and as a result stop functioning), nor does it depend on the flashlight not being damaged or out of action. Therefore I assume you are referring to the safety of the flashlight rather than your own safety.
    If you consider safety to be a state of low risk and risk to be the magnitude (severity) of the possible adverse consequence(s), and the likelihood (probability) of occurrence of each consequence then as has been mentioned leaking can occur, or not, and if it does, it can cause damage, or not.

    I consider the likelihood of a correctly maintained E1L leaking at a depth of 1.9m to be low. I consider the severity of the damage caused by the E1L being flooded by swimming pool water to be low. Therefore the risk is low and the E1L 'safe'.
    However, if the E1L leaks it will take a long time to dry out - this must be done calmly, for example in an airing cupboard (if you have such a thing) over the course of perhaps two weeks (warm, dry, arid conditions). If you can not spare the E1L to be out of action for this length of time then I suggest you do not 'risk it'.

    Bottomline: you don't know whether it can perform until it has!
    Performance is a characteristic best awarded in hindsight...

    Al

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* GhostReaction's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    Pardon the confusion. What I meant was the safety of the E1L
    Quote Originally Posted by Size15's
    If you can normally safely dive to a depth of 1.9m then I don't see how taking an E1L along with you can decrease your safety. Unless you are holding it in your mouth at the time of the plunge (etc)
    Al
    Of cos 1.9m is not deep, its a swimming pool
    I would try to do a swim with my E1L if it arrives in Dubai.
    Quote Originally Posted by ACMarina
    From what I've seen of all of my Surefire lights, it'd be okay. I believe the official word from Surefire is any of their lights would be okay to 1 ATM (35 feet or so), if you can find that in writing on Surefire's website I'd say go for it. I'd do it myself if I had one, 1.9m isn't very deep IMO..
    Last edited by GhostReaction; 04-25-2006 at 11:08 PM.
    Lights were once incandescent. And halogen bulb were great

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* GhostReaction's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    Sorry about the picture quality. I know nothing about photography. Just to share with fellow CPF members. All pictures snapped with automatic setting.
    I always prefer saltwater swimming rather than swimming pool but I will leave the ocean photography to pros like Don.
    Anyway I do not have underwater camera or gadgets and the have to drive for hours over the "beach" in Dubai to reach the ocean

    The pool is 1.95m deep with no shallow ends. Brought the Fenix L0p and HDS for my swim.


    Dip the L0p in first.


    Next dip the HDS in just below the surface.


    Once dipping test is okay, I drop the lights till the bottom of the pool
    L0p:



    HDS:



    Both lights were left in the bottom for 5 minutes and I took each light for a lap swim.
    The HDS beam underwater was impressive and all function work well while at the bottom of the pool.
    Lights were once incandescent. And halogen bulb were great

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    Cool pics.

    I would not risk my SF's at this point, but I did take a 2C/3x123 M*G into a pool. After having first electrical-taped over the switch, head/body joint and tailcap.
    The thing still leaked a little bit, probably near the lens as I recall, but it was fun.

    At my in-laws house, at night, we shut off the pool lights (the lights attract the BIG bugs, which attract the bats! ), and I was diving around in total darkness . It was pretty cool.
    Dean Venture: "I'll get the flashlights!"
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  15. #15
    *Flashaholic* Icebreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    I think member flash... did this, I can't remember all the lights or which one's may have leaked but I do remember all survived.

    Looks like some flash...mods, Craftsman, Tektite, Mini-Mag with dat2zip sammies, a Mr. Bulk and a couple of McLuxes.

    Anyway. One of my favorite photos. Thought you'd like it.

    The oldtimers are forever bound to the universe of flashlights. They reside just above the torch lit stratosphere where the good photons pass by. As these oldtimers locomote on their appointed ways, occasionally an unusual glimmer from below catches their attention.

    They may give a nod or a word.

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    Flashaholic* BigHonu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    I have always wondered how movement affects the pressure/depth rating on a light. Can a light held in the hand while diving at a depth 'see' a greater pressure, than that depth would normally provide, if the light were still/at rest?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    While I trust my Surefires in just about any situation, I am not going to test them underwater unless of course I have to. Jumping in a pool with any of my SureFires would take alot of convincing.

    I can say I have had my 6P in a downpour and it functioned perfectly.

    But If i had to choose any of my lights I would probably take my E2L.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic jashhash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    I submersed a shortened Mag 2D (Cut off the side switch portion) with a tailcap switch in the kitchen sink at work for 5 minutes and no water seeped through. I doubt a stock 2D light would survive though...
    "And these three remain: faith, hope, and love. The greatest of these is love."

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  19. #19

    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    I took my E2D under the pacific ocean about 200 times.

    It was under 20 feet
    Last edited by Dustin Liu; 04-27-2006 at 07:51 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    ive taken my U2 and C3 in the bath / jaccussi with me a bunch of times. theyre alot of fun!
    "you carry an umbrella if there is a 50% chance of rain, right? Well, there's a 100% chance of darkness tonight." -saunterer

  21. #21
    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    The last time I took a SureFire in a hottub was in a Vegas motel entertaining two young ladies late at night... The M6 leaked

    SureFire improved the M6 and sent me a replacement (which explains why I have three)

    Al

  22. #22

    Naughty Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    Thats too bad your M6 leaked in front of the ladies, i guess it goes to show that bigger isnt better......

  23. #23

    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    Quote Originally Posted by Size15's
    The last time I took a SureFire in a hottub was in a Vegas motel entertaining two young ladies late at night... The M6 leaked

    SureFire improved the M6 and sent me a replacement (which explains why I have three)

    Al
    That must have been a long time ago.

    With all the SF you have and EDC, I am very surprise there is no more stories, hot tubs / shower adventures ?

    Looking forward to hear your stories. Thanks.

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* GhostReaction's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    Quote Originally Posted by Icebreak
    I think member flash... did this, I can't remember all the lights or which one's may have leaked but I do remember all survived.
    Looks like some flash...mods, Craftsman, Tektite, Mini-Mag with dat2zip sammies, a Mr. Bulk and a couple of McLuxes.
    Anyway. One of my favorite photos. Thought you'd like it.
    That is a very nice shot thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigHonu
    I have always wondered how movement affects the pressure/depth rating on a light. Can a light held in the hand while diving at a depth 'see' a greater pressure, than that depth would normally provide, if the light were still/at rest?
    I did a lap swim with both L0p and HDS. Also I dived the width length of the pool with the HDS in my hand and tried all functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by nc987
    While I trust my Surefires in just about any situation, I am not going to test them underwater unless of course I have to. Jumping in a pool with any of my SureFires would take alot of convincing.
    I can say I have had my 6P in a downpour and it functioned perfectly.
    But If i had to choose any of my lights I would probably take my E2L
    This thread is in no way to encourage people taking a plunge in the pool with a non-dive rated light
    If you are confident and I m convienced while having the same light at hand I will do the dip.
    IMHO and dumb actions, if a light would survive a dip in a pool then most likely I m confident to use it during a downpour or a storm

    Quote Originally Posted by flakey
    Ive taken my U2 and C3 in the bath / jaccussi with me a bunch of times. theyre alot of fun!
    Its loads of fun for me too , especially looking at the beam underwater.
    You could really see the spill and hotspot angle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Size15
    The last time I took a SureFire in a hottub was in a Vegas motel entertaining two young ladies late at night... The M6 leaked
    The M6 were not design and tested to perform properly at the presence of hot babes
    Lights were once incandescent. And halogen bulb were great

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* Sub_Umbra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    The Nightcutters were independantly rated for depth, shock, etc. I have one that went through a full washing machine cycle and never took a drop.

  26. #26
    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    It was a long time ago - must have been 2000

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    I tried if the surefire G2 is waterproof... At kitchen-sink depth, it leaked. The tailcap boot seems to be the problem.
    Werent surefires supposed to be waterproof to 1ATM/30ft?
    Guess thats all i can expect for $36 from sf...

    Somehow related topic: there is this surefire 6PN which is dive-rated.
    Afaik, the only difference to the 6P is an additional o-ring at the tailcap and it is tested to be waterproof. Is this correct?

  28. #28
    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    Is that a current G2 with LockOut TailCap?
    If it doesn't have a LOTC there's little chance of it being waterproof unless the TailCap is screwed on tight and not rotated underwater.

    Yes, the use of the "N" means that it has been individually tested and rated for "Navy" [SEAL?] use.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    My Peak Matterhorn AAA light took over 140 showers with me 18 months ago with no problems. It was also dropped into puddles, thrown into fish tanks and fell into photographic processing chemical developer with no ill effects. No leaks, no problems and no worries.

    My Peak Mediterranean has suffered the same usage pattern at the Matterhorn although not in a shower. Chemicals, blood, bleach (to clean blood) water and other things with nary a complaint.

    My Fire~Fly III has taken a dunking and fell in a bathtub with no problems. Had an Arc AAA that went through showers and general mayhem without issue (well, that applied to liquids anyway)
    Peak Pacific AAA UP brass (EDC) E01 (keys), Peaks, Arcs, Fenix, Q5 Aspheric HA-III Mag etc.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Confident to take a plunge in the pool?

    Quote Originally Posted by Size15's
    Is that a current G2 with LockOut TailCap?
    Yes.
    I finally took the tailcap apart and the internals are identical to the aluminum-lotc's. So it should be water resistant like 6P&Co., no idea what went wrong.

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