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Thread: M4 on Steroids....MK II

  1. #1
    Flashaholic Protaeus's Avatar
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    Default M4 on Steroids....MK II

    After seeing Hburner's work on MSaxatilus' Surefire M4, I thought I'd get some 18650 LG 2400MAH cells and give it a go. I found a 17.75-18.25mm expanding hand reamer on ebay which was used from the UK and managed to get it for about 10 pounds including shipping to Australia. I didnt have a tap wrench so a mate and I took at it with a spanner. That took a while and we thought it was taking way too long and too much effort, so we attached the hand reamer to a hand drill and set the speed setting to the lowest and the torque setting to the highest. We also had it set on the 'impact' setting. This worked moderately well, but we found that it tended to still lock. Then we noticed the WD40. Brilliant! We sprayed down the inside of the M4 and took at it with the the reamer and it was smooth as silk. After reaching the 18.25mm, the WD40 had created a mirror finish, far smoother than the original finish. Now I can use 18650 LG 2400mah cells. My mate and I are really happy with the job!

    Here are some pics to wet your appetite...




    Surefire: E2E~E2L~M2~L5~M4~A2
    Mods: Arcmania 5W Surefire turbohead module
    A2 with White SMJLEDs and GID
    M4-6 (220/500 Lumens)

  2. #2
    *Flashaholic* wquiles's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II



    Please be carefull with those very powerfull and unprotected LiIons

    Will
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  3. #3
    *Flashaholic* KevinL's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    Dude, WOW!! AWESOME job!! Which bulb are you planning to run?
    Celebrating the ROP.. 5 years of history

  4. #4
    Flashaholic Protaeus's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    At the moment it has an MN16 LA in it, but Im going to order an MN21 HOLA LA for it
    Surefire: E2E~E2L~M2~L5~M4~A2
    Mods: Arcmania 5W Surefire turbohead module
    A2 with White SMJLEDs and GID
    M4-6 (220/500 Lumens)

  5. #5
    *Flashaholic* KevinL's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    Rechargeable M6, I like....
    Celebrating the ROP.. 5 years of history

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* MSaxatilus's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    Congrats! Awesome job. Hburner had a great idea, much thanks to him for putting forth such a great idea.

    MSax

  7. #7
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    I wonder how long the HOLA MN21 will run on the 2 18650 cells?
    -- CUE

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    Flashaholic* LEDcandle's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    What's the draw on an MN21? 4+ Amps?
    If it is, then the light will last about 30mins or usually less due to heat.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* missionaryman's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    protaeus

    which lamp assy did have in it when we put it side by side to the ROP at the park?
    "Let your light shine" - it's the one commandment we all obey...

  10. #10

    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    I burned up a switch on one of these running an mn21.

    I haven't run the M4 switch, as it might be of a larger gauge wire since it is designed to run the m4 hola. In the case of the U2 clickie, it took about 8mins then the sweet smell of melted plastic (and a bubbly sound) occurred

    Both an old 6P push and a U2 clickie get way too hot. I recommend you run the light for a few minutes, pull the switch off and feel the spring. If it is hot, the plastic (if any) will be like to melt with extended runtime.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic Protaeus's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    I was using the MN16 the other day which is the HOLA for the M3T. It appears to be whiter than the regular M4 lamps.

    Luna, thanks for the warning, I'll keep that in mind if I decide to run the MN21. At the moment though, I recieved the M4 from JanCPF with a clickie switch which I believe to be a Z58. If it does start running hot, I will consider moding it with some higher guage wiring.

    I doubt that I will ever run it at a full 30 minutes though, so I dont think overheating should be an issue. Anyway, as soon as I get the MN21 I'll run some tests and see how it goes.
    Surefire: E2E~E2L~M2~L5~M4~A2
    Mods: Arcmania 5W Surefire turbohead module
    A2 with White SMJLEDs and GID
    M4-6 (220/500 Lumens)

  12. #12
    Flashaholic hburner's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    It is a great light! I like the M4 body better than the M6 and this is a good way to get 500 lumens out of the M4!!!!!!
    SureFire C3-HA, 1 MAG 2C ROP LE, Fenix L2D CE, Surefire C2, 2 Mag85, Mag74, Mag11, M@g31, 2D magw/ 3 x P4 USWOH Seouls-3ISM20 Ref-Maxflex driver, 2C Mag w/1 USWOI Seoul LED-bFlex driver-stock Mag ref

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* KDOG3's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    Yikes! I'd be scared to death to take a $300+ light and do that to it! I'm glad it worked out though. What kind of runtime do you get from the stock M6 lamp? Do you get more than 20 minutes from the M4 HOLA?

  14. #14
    Flashaholic hburner's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    I have only used the MN21 in my setup and get a solid 20 minutes out of it before dimming sets in. As for the MN60 and 61 I have not used them, they would not work anyway with the 186500s.
    SureFire C3-HA, 1 MAG 2C ROP LE, Fenix L2D CE, Surefire C2, 2 Mag85, Mag74, Mag11, M@g31, 2D magw/ 3 x P4 USWOH Seouls-3ISM20 Ref-Maxflex driver, 2C Mag w/1 USWOI Seoul LED-bFlex driver-stock Mag ref

  15. #15
    Flashaholic Protaeus's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    Its not a particularly difficult or challenging process and the finish comes out beautifully. As HBurner said, you cannot use the MN60, 61 LA because they require 12 volts whereas two 18650 cells only produce 8.4 volts at maximum charge. Using the MN60/61 LA produces an extremely yellow beam.

    Besides, the MN16 LA produces a much whiter beam even compared to the MN60/61.

    Hburner, did you get any problems with the tailcap when running with the MN21 LA? I am currently using the clicky tailcap z58 i think....
    Surefire: E2E~E2L~M2~L5~M4~A2
    Mods: Arcmania 5W Surefire turbohead module
    A2 with White SMJLEDs and GID
    M4-6 (220/500 Lumens)

  16. #16
    Flashaholic hburner's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    Not at all. It worked flawlessley. Even with my C3/KT2/A19, it works great!
    SureFire C3-HA, 1 MAG 2C ROP LE, Fenix L2D CE, Surefire C2, 2 Mag85, Mag74, Mag11, M@g31, 2D magw/ 3 x P4 USWOH Seouls-3ISM20 Ref-Maxflex driver, 2C Mag w/1 USWOI Seoul LED-bFlex driver-stock Mag ref

  17. #17

    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    Quote Originally Posted by hburner
    Not at all. It worked flawlessley. Even with my C3/KT2/A19, it works great!

    How long have you run it? I should have an SW02 for it soon but it definately melted it after 8mins of runtime. How hot is your spring?

    Also is this a longer term problem, as I've been running the combination for a bit longer than you. Just things to think about.
    Last edited by Luna; 05-21-2006 at 06:25 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    Quote Originally Posted by Protaeus
    Luna, thanks for the warning, I'll keep that in mind if I decide to run the MN21. At the moment though, I recieved the M4 from JanCPF with a clickie switch which I believe to be a Z58. If it does start running hot, I will consider moding it with some higher guage wiring.
    I thought that might work but the internal contacts of the clickie are very small too. We will see how the SW02 works out.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic hburner's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    I have been using mine since late Dec. of '05, mostly with the Z58 clickie. But I do swithc around with Z48, Z41. I have had no problems with any of them. I have run it for up 22 min about 3 times just to see how the 18650s would hold up. It got hot but my C3 with 2 18500s and P91 gets hotter.
    SureFire C3-HA, 1 MAG 2C ROP LE, Fenix L2D CE, Surefire C2, 2 Mag85, Mag74, Mag11, M@g31, 2D magw/ 3 x P4 USWOH Seouls-3ISM20 Ref-Maxflex driver, 2C Mag w/1 USWOI Seoul LED-bFlex driver-stock Mag ref

  20. #20
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    When boring the tube out, is it necessary to leave a lip for the negative electrode of the LA or can you just bore straight through ?

  21. #21
    Flashaholic hburner's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    Depends on the size of the boring bar. You do need to leave a "lip" for the - contact.
    SureFire C3-HA, 1 MAG 2C ROP LE, Fenix L2D CE, Surefire C2, 2 Mag85, Mag74, Mag11, M@g31, 2D magw/ 3 x P4 USWOH Seouls-3ISM20 Ref-Maxflex driver, 2C Mag w/1 USWOI Seoul LED-bFlex driver-stock Mag ref

  22. #22
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    I intend to bore just sufficiently to allow the 18650s to go in, so hopefully there will still be enough of a lip left.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    Even with the full lip there (as built by the factory), contact to the lamp's negative spring is reeeeally iffy.

    On my own light I actually totally machined off the lip and made a new insert with a larger lip. The ID still fits the 18650s and the OD is just right for the lamp's contact. I made it out of 303 stainless steel and pressed it in place... easy to make on a lathe (even a mini lathe) and one of those cheap but good mods you can do.

  24. #24

    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    Quote Originally Posted by hburner
    Depends on the size of the boring bar. You do need to leave a "lip" for the - contact.

    Since I went into the boring out bit for LGs without any info to fall back on(it sucks sometimes to be a guinea pig ), I bored straight thru only to discover a poor LA grounding. I was able to expand the outer spring to maintain constant contact.

    Scott did it the right way. I was gonna just groove a channel and put a ring or c clip in there.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    I was gonna just groove a channel and put a ring or c clip in there.
    That's a great idea! There's a company called Smalley that makes continuous circlips (no gap). That would be ideal for this application, and very easy to install if you have a lathe.

    I think you can find their products at smallparts.com, but if you're near an automotive machine shop, Smalley circlips are used in many aftermarket engine pistons - to hold the wrist pins in place.

    Of course the regular retaining ring with the two holes in it will work fine too... I figure a continuous retaining ring is just a little "nicer" for a one-off light.

  26. #26
    Flashaholic hburner's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    I guess I have just been lucky, out of all the ones that I have bored the spring contact has never been a problem.


    I do pay close attention to the size of the "lip" while I am making my passes though, making sure that it stays good and solid.

    Another thing people can do is not bore all the way through the body. Stop just short of the spring contact area, of course then you will have to bottom load your torch.
    SureFire C3-HA, 1 MAG 2C ROP LE, Fenix L2D CE, Surefire C2, 2 Mag85, Mag74, Mag11, M@g31, 2D magw/ 3 x P4 USWOH Seouls-3ISM20 Ref-Maxflex driver, 2C Mag w/1 USWOI Seoul LED-bFlex driver-stock Mag ref

  27. #27

    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    Where to buy the reamer and high current clicky?
    Is the modification difficult?
    Thanks
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  28. #28
    Flashaholic hburner's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    One of the best places to get a good quality adjustable reamer is from MSC, check out their website.

    The boring is not too difficult but you must be very careful when boring to keep it straight and do not bore too much material off.
    SureFire C3-HA, 1 MAG 2C ROP LE, Fenix L2D CE, Surefire C2, 2 Mag85, Mag74, Mag11, M@g31, 2D magw/ 3 x P4 USWOH Seouls-3ISM20 Ref-Maxflex driver, 2C Mag w/1 USWOI Seoul LED-bFlex driver-stock Mag ref

  29. #29

    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    What is MSC website?
    Thanks
    EagleEye, SFL4,M6,6PD,G2,G3,9P,Kroma MillSpec,Titan, CR2Ion, Mini HID 8AA, Colossus , Torch, Barn Burner, K2000R, Exolion SS & SE, SPY 005&007, Mc Gizmo Lunasol20, Lumencraft V3, Lummi RAW,Wee, Tiablo A9, BR Laser, MagCharger Mod, FM85, EL Mag P7,WOF,

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* RAF_Groundcrew's Avatar
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    Default Re: M4 on Steroids....MK II

    What is the factory manufactured inside diameter on the M4, how much metal needs to be removed?

    I have seen plenty of expanding hand reamers on ebay, but they have a range 18.25mm - 19.84mm.
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