Any Frybrid Car Owner/Users?

About a week ago, I heard a short blurb on the news about a "Frybrid" car that can run on cooking oil. The great part of it, is that you can get "free" "gas" from fast food restaurants--filter their used cooking oil into your tank.

Sounds like a great idea for recycling, plus restaurants won't have to pay to "dump" their used oil. I believe they said you could also use "fresh" cooking oil, which at about $2.50 a gallon, is still cheaper than regular gasoline in my neck of the woods these days.

Anyone have any experience with this type of vehicle? Is this a really feasible alternative-fuel vehicle?

I believe a guy who goes by the name ikenduit or something like that does. A few do here, looks like a great idea if you have the ability to get the oil out of traps, tanks ,etc, sources for the oil and room to filter it or convert it to bio diesel. Id opt to burn it in the native form without playing chemist.

No one responded to this? BUMP, BUMP, BUMP. I have a nearly free mercedes 240d 81 model diesel car in the RIchmond, va area if anyone is interested in a co op making it run on veggie fuel. I hope it can anyway, I hate to make what looks similar to a meth lab to process it to biodiesel.

Myth busters just filtered the oil and ran it in I belive a mercedes. They didn't use all the chems to make it "biodeseil".

Some diesels can run the veggie oil and a few other oils or fuels direct, other diesels can only run the street grade of diesel fuel. Looked to me like the myth busters used a mercedes 300td, that uses a 5 cylinder engine and a plunger injector pump. My dads 240 d is a 4 banger and it too uses a plunger pump. VWs diesels use a rotary plunger pump. Newer diesels use a similar fuel system to gas cars with a common fuel rail, constant pressure and electrically operated fuel injectors.

As I recall, the typical "fry-oil" conversions start on diesel, get the engine warm and circulate radiator water around the [fry] oil lines/[fry] oil tank to reduce viscosity. Once warm, just switch over to the [fry] oil. And, at the last few miles of the trip, switch back to diesel to purge the [fry] oil [from the injectors, pump, and lines] and get ready for the next cold start.

With Bio-Diesel, the fuel is transformed in a chemical reactor (and glycerin removed) by the conversion process/chemicals. The resultant fuel can be run like diesel in most engines (may still have issues in very cold weather--but so does diesel).

The other issue with non-diesel alternative fuels is that they are very aggressive on the flexible fuel lines. Many engines need their flex lines replaced. According to CPF member Ikendu, engines manufactured after 1995 should already use the synthetic lines and seals. Older engines may need conversion.

If you drive a lot, it might by nicer to do the cooking oil conversion as you will not need to process the oil--thereby eliminating the purchase and disposal of hazardous chemicals/waste. You do have to install a second insulated tank with a heat exchanger in your car.

If you drive short distances and/or don't want to convert your vehicles--then the bio-diesel process is probably the way to go... But, you will need a shed for the conversion/storage of your fueling station and a place to take your wastes.

With either method, you can still use regular diesel when the alternative fuels are not available.

For any more information, you will probably need to go the web sites associated with each. I don't have much more knowledge than what I just related.

By the way, "ikendu" is the member here with the Bio-Diesel experience. Contact him, look for some of his older posts, or try his link at:

http://www.itsgood4.us/

I don't see how he missed this thread--he is very willing to help anyone looking for information/help. I see he has been posting lightly over the last few weeks and may have missed your thread.

-Bill

Bill pretty much summed it all up. While most modern diesel engines can run straight waste veggie oil the oil needs to be pretty warm (depending on what kind of oil it is) and the engine needs to be warm as well. If Mythbusters had tried running the filtered waste oil first I would be willing to bet it wouldn't have started or if it did it would have smoked a LOT until it warmed up.

I also run "refined" waste cooking oil or bio-diesel. You can add bio-diesel, or B100 as it is often called, to diesel straight in any concentration and it mixes with regular diesel quite well. If you add straight cooking oil it will not mix with diesel very well and separate out, I believe sink to the bottom on the tank. If you live in a warm or hot climate it would work much better.

BB said:

By the way, "ikendu" is the member here with the Bio-Diesel experience. Contact him, look for some of his older posts, or try his link at:

http://www.itsgood4.us/

I don't see how he missed this thread--he is very willing to help anyone looking for information/help. I see he has been posting lightly over the last few weeks and may have missed your thread.

-Bill

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I've retired a bit from internet forums to focus on my work. I'll likely be away for about a year. Heck, it looks like you all have the topic covered without me!

By all means... visit my web site!

see www.greasecar.com

Here is a biodiesel site that has some links to other methods like heated fryer oil.

veggie van

I bought an old clapped out 76 Mercedes 300D to try making my own fuel and now it sits with a dead fuel director module and me with no tools or garage to fix it with.

I've never understood the fascination with cars that run on cooking oil. Sure, if you're the only guy in town who does it, you're good to go. But what happens when you have 100 people? Do you really think there will still be enough 'free' oil to go around? Imagine the hassle of owning a restaurant and having these people call you every day looking for oil...

Mark

I would look for a kidney foundation junkyard to get another injector pump. We have two that will let you get the parts for next to nothing or also remove them for you.

One reason I havent done the frycar thing either as its my understanding not all diesels can run n veggie oil, hot or cold, others it must be turned to biodiesel.

I too wonder about the supply and demand thing. It wont be long before the small food places start to charge for removal of their waste oil. Then it would get to the point its cheaper and more convient to just buy diesel fuel directly.

I can tell you guys one thing. In the country areas of VA, all farmers are growing corn. Unusual as they normally grow peanuts, wheat, soybeans. Sure some grow corn, but all are now.

Minjin said:

...what happens when you have 100 people? Do you really think there will still be enough 'free' oil to go around?
Mark

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Every year we discard 3 billion gallons of fryer oil.

3 billion.

That is enough to displace 5% of all the diesel fuel used in the U.S.

Sure, there is an end to the 'free' oil, but we are a long way from it at this time. BTW... if you are not interested, no problem! All the more for the rest of us!

what will happen to engine that runs on cooking oil? would it accumlate more carbon that regular gas engine? Does this mean the owner has to take to shop for engine clean often?

Would the car opt out of regular engine oil to keep engine cool? I am confused. :huh2: :huh2:

picard, to be honest with you, its a half assed solution to a problem that is going to get worse. Running bio fuel gets you less mpg, may ruin your injection system and produces more NO2 than regular diesel fuel.

I dont know about carbon build up with one or the other, but driving hard will blow it out the system. In my experience carbon build up in a diesel engine gives you more power and makes it sound better.

There does need to be a distinction between running on Straight Vegetable Oil (SVO) and BioDiesel.

SVO (often from waster fryer oil) is too thick to go through the injectors of most modern diesels. It must be thinned. There are two ways to do it.

1. Heat it first (about 165F)

This is a way to use it directly after filtering out particles. You add a second fuel tank for the SVO. Start normally on diesel. A radiator loop heats the SVO tank to 165F (read out on a dash thermometer). You throw a valve and start feeding the now thinner, heated oil into the diesel. Before you stop, you need to flush the fuel lines with regular diesel 'cause after it cools down, your car will be hard to start on the cool, thicker SVO.

The best vehicle for SVO is a 1984 (or so) vintage Mercedes 300D. It had a bullet proof fuel pump and a pre-chamber style ignition system. You can convert more recent models with direct injection, but I hear it doesn't work quite as well. I don't own one of these so I'm just saying what I've heard.

Free fuel is an attractive part for SVO users. I met a guy with a 1984 Jetta running on SVO that hasn't bought any significant petroleum fuel for over three years.

2. Convert the SVO chemically to "get the thick out"

This is biodiesel. You crack the vegetable oil molecule with a strong base (like household lye) to remove the glycerin (the too thick part), then you bond in some alcohol like methanol (or ethanol). This resulting liquid is so much like diesel fuel that the engine doesn't know the difference.

I run biodiesel ...and proud of it!

Quite a bit of misinformation and speculation here.

1) Running SVO you can expect a 3% loss in MPG, being free this should be of little concern. Today in Seattle Diesel was $3.59 a gallon, new Vegetable oil at Costco $2.25 a gallon.



2) You can also expect a 3% loss in power on some engines but only at wide open throttle.



3) If the engine is started on diesel and shut down on diesel and runs vegetable oil only after the engine has come up to temp. You will experience no carbon build up or other accelerated engine wear issues. My vehicles are started on diesel and as soon as they come up to temp a computer activates the VO system and the remainder of the drive is done on VO. I commute only 5 miles a day and 4 miles of it each way is on VO.



4) A small bar or cafe will produce between 15 and 30 gallons a week of waste oil.



5) A dual fuel VO system allows the user to choose between VO and diesel so you are not reliant on running VO, this allows you to go on long trips where VO may not be available. On my site there is an interactive map to connect VO users with other across the country. Several have used this map to make cross country trips, filling up with VO from other users along the way.



6) While it is true that burning VO creates more NOX it also has the following characteristics: 100% reduction in SO2 (sulfur di-oxide - causes acid rain), 93% reduction in PAH's (causes cancer and respiratory illness), 100% carbon neutral (carbon produced is absorbed by the next oil producing crop), Reductions in HC, CO and CO2. Running straight vegetable oil requires no oil drilling, no chemical processing, no super tankers, no foreign expenditures, smells good, is vastly better for the environment and frankly is a lot of fun.



Check out my site at www.frybrid.com you will find complete system descriptions, a very active forum, research documentation, etc, etc.



Sincerely,



Christopher Goodwin

Nice looking system and nice site Mr. Goodwin. Looks like you guys did lots of hard work.

-Bill