This is pretty messed up...

vtunderground

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One of my co workers has 3 kids, ages 12, 14, and 16. Last night the 12-year-old woke up to find a man standing in his room holding a roll of duct tape. The kid screamed, and luckily the intruder ran away.

So now I'm taking my co-worker my 870 and a box of #4 Buck. I'm kinda freaked out by the whole thing (not as much as him though), because I've met his kid, and they live pretty close to me. This is the kind of thing that happens to strangers on the news, not people you're friends with, you know?

Anyways, just needed to share.
 

jtice

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How did the guy get in the house in the first place! :eek:oo:

Well, odds are, he wont be back, some other unlucky family will have to deal with him.

~John
 

ABTOMAT

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Harden the access points into the house, get a noisy alarm, get a big dog, and you already have the shotgun aspect covered. Make sure he knows how to use it safely, BTW.
 

BB

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I know it is a stupid question, but living in Kalifornia has made me paranoid--Make sure your co-worker (and wife) is legal to poses a gun or you could be...

-Bill

PS: Probably take the gun over after the police have done their investigation today.
 

IsaacHayes

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That is really really messed up. Hope that freak is caught/gets what's coming to him. Time to do a neighborhood watch as they say.
 

ACMarina

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I'd think about putting the kids together, at least for a little while. Strength-in-numbers, if you will. Even three ten year old kids will pose a serious amount of pain to a grown-up..
 

Lightraven

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If your coworker doesn't already own a gun, it suggests he may not be familiar with them. This could lead to a tragedy, with his nerves likely on edge.

A shotgun with buck load isn't great for this scenario (especially if it doesn't have a Surefire weaponlight), for many reasons. Maybe that is what you had available, so that's OK. I would at least get him slugs instead of the shot.

I would suggest a full size .357 magnum revolver firing jacketed hollowpoints with a bright surefire flashlight like an M3 with high output lamp. An autoloader with a rail mounted light would be after he gets some professional level instruction.

Of course, alarms on the doors and windows (which should be locked as well as possible).

We all hope the bad guy hits the wrong house one night. . .
 

MScottz

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Wrong direction there, too much penetration with a 357 unless you use special frangible loads. I would go back to the shotgun, but with lighter loads, smaller shot. You will still get lethal results without firing through 3-4 walls if you miss.
 

Lightmeup

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Yeah, that's scary. It takes a lot of nerve to sneak into an occupied house and try something like that. The perpetrator is a very dangerous person. I definitely agree about the shell load, much better idea to switch to smaller shot size.
 

ABTOMAT

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That sounds to me to be 180 degrees from what a person should have. Handguns aren't easy to handle and aim in a pressure situation, especially for a novice, and something like a .357 could easily kill someone in other rooms. Slugs in a shotgun are even worse. Huge recoil, big heavy projectile. A shotgun with buck is probably the most often recommened weapon for home defense. Granted a shotgun isn't as quick to swing around in a hallway, but it's still what I'd want. Go with an 18.5" barrel if it's only going to be a home defense weapon. A weapon light would be nice but I wouldn't think it too critical.

On the other end of the penetration scale I would _not_ want birdshot. Many people think this is a good idea so you won't be putting people behind walls in danger, but it also has a good chance of just causing a shallow wound to an attacker.


Lightraven said:
If your coworker doesn't already own a gun, it suggests he may not be familiar with them. This could lead to a tragedy, with his nerves likely on edge.

A shotgun with buck load isn't great for this scenario (especially if it doesn't have a Surefire weaponlight), for many reasons. Maybe that is what you had available, so that's OK. I would at least get him slugs instead of the shot.

I would suggest a full size .357 magnum revolver firing jacketed hollowpoints with a bright surefire flashlight like an M3 with high output lamp. An autoloader with a rail mounted light would be after he gets some professional level instruction.

Of course, alarms on the doors and windows (which should be locked as well as possible).

We all hope the bad guy hits the wrong house one night. . .
 

MichiganMan

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Of course you should assume the worst and prepare accordingly, (I still advocate a dog as an effective alarm system and burglar deterrent) but barring the not implausible event that the 12 year old made it up or dreamed/imagined it, be aware that this story sounds like there is likely a whole lot more behind it, ie. nine times out of ten the intruder of an occupied home has a personal relationship of some type with the owner. It doesn't hurt to be prepared, and you should be, but don't let fear ruin your sense of security.
 
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Lightraven

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The problem with the shotgun is how awkward it is indoors. You have to hold it with two hands, making opening doors, turning on lights and handling telephones difficult. It is likely to bump into things as you move through a house and it is harder to maneuver around corners. Obviously, it will need a weaponlight if you are to see anything in the dark.

It is much easier for a bad guy to wrestle a long gun like a shotgun away than a handgun. You can shoot somebody with a handgun that is on top of you, which is where a fight indoors may end up. A shotgun has a light trigger press which is good for accuracy, but less so for safety. If you trip in the dark over your kid's skateboard, a heavier trigger may help avoid an accident. With the revolver, you can **** the hammer as you come up on target.

The big problem with shot for defensive purposes is that you can't control where all the pellets go. If you are shooting past somebody (like your kid), a pellet could strike them. I'm not so concerned about penetration because if you hit what you are aiming at, they should take most of the force. There is some danger here, I'll admit, but the shotgun spread (1 inch per yard) is unacceptable in what amounts to a hostage rescue (bad guy with child).

The shotgun has many good attributes--lethality, accuracy but has some drawbacks that should be considered. Having both a properly equipped shotgun and handgun might be the best solution.
 

greenLED

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S**t, that's scary. I can only imagine how the kid (and their parents) feel right now. Time to secure the house.
 

vtunderground

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Yeah, my co-worker is very familiar with guns (especially pump shotguns, I think that's all he's ever used for hunting). I just wasn't sure what (if any) he owns right now. As it turned out, he ended up leaving work early to be with his wife and kids, so my shotgun is back in my closet now anyways.

I found out a little more after lunch today. Apparently the intruder got in through an unlocked door. The cops were immediately called, and think they got a good fingerprint. This is all second hand, so I'll find out more on Tuesday. I really hope they catch the guy.

To tell the truth, it could have been far worse... My co-worker and I were on a business trip across the state this week, and weren't due to be back until this evening. It was only by good luck that we came back a day early. Otherwise it would have just been his wife and kids at home alone last night.
 

ABTOMAT

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If you're in a position where the size of a shotgun pattern will put someone in danger, you have _absolutely no business_ firing at all. If you're indoors, say at about 15 feet, you really want someone firing a handgun under stress in a situation where the ~3-4" group of a shotgun might be too large? Pellets don't go flying all over the place, especially buckshot. Let me make a note never to stay over at your place--if you get broken into I don't want someone trying to shoot an apple off my head.
 
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MScottz

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I agree completely, a high power centerfire handgun is NOT a home SD gun, no matter how good of a shot you are, without shooting specialized frangible ammo.
 

vtunderground

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I found this website to be interesting:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm


And although I don't think there's anyone else on here from Charlottesville, here's the statement just released by the police department:


"At approximately 1:30 AM today a 12 year old male child was awakened in his bed room in the 2300 Block of Shelby Drive, Charlottesville. A male subject was attempting to place duct tape over his mouth. He resisted and screamed. The screams awakened his parents and older brother who responded to his aid. The suspect apparently left the front door open so he was able to flee before help arrived. Several windows had apparently been tampered with, but remained secure.

On May 13th of this year a male resident of the same block of Shelby Dr. was awakened at approximately mid-night when someone stuck their hand through an open window into his bed room. The person never gained entry and left when the resident made a noise.

Earlier that same day a short, thin to medium build Hispanic male in his early 30's was observed attempting to break into the same house of the attack this morning. He was using a ladder in an attempt to gain entry into a second floor window. A neighbor questioned him about his behavior and he said he was doing some work on the house. He subsequently left the area. When the neighbor who observed the suspect attempting to gain entry spoke with the residents several days later, the police were notified.

Residents should be alert to this threat to our community and as always practice good crime prevention techniques. Make sure you have adequate lighting and your windows and doors are secure, especially before retiring for the night.

Anyone with possible information about this suspect please call detective Jim Mooney at 434-970-3374 or Crime Stoppers at 434-977- 4000."

I didn't know about the attempt to break into my co-worker's house on the 13th. That's even more messed up, that some sick person is actively going after his family.
 

vtunderground

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And on a related note, what's the consensus on Surefire's integrated shotgun forearm lights? I had a Pelican M6 LED mounted to my 870, but it couldn't handle full-power loads (see this thread: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=113019). If the Surefire's are decent, I'd like to pick one up (but it'll be a while, they're expensive and I'm poor right now). I think I remember some posts about premature bulb failure?
 

Icebreak

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MichiganMan said:
...be aware that this story sounds like there is likely a whole lot more behind it, ie. nine times out of ten the intruder of an occupied home has a personal relationship of some type with the owner...
Exactly right.

It's also not unlikely that he's done work in the neighborhood and used that as an opportunity to scope out potential victims.

A few simple daytime ride arounds may reveal some new remodeling or landscaping that has taken place. Most folks will be cooperative when asked about the work that was done when they learn the reason for the questions.

It may not pan a thing but calm, even minded action can cause greater empowerment...taking charge of the situation intelligently.

vt - Freako may still be loitering tonight and this weekend. Some police departments will do an extra drive through if you remind them of an incident. It's good to know when the shift change is and to call a few minutes after.
 
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