Hello all, new guy here with a question. I love LED lights Surefire's in particular, I own an L1, L2 and an EL1. I love the output of the L2 but it's beam is to broad, I really like the beam on the L1, why doesn't Surefire put a TIR lens like my L1 has on it's more powerful LED lights? I'm sorry if this has been covered in the past, I did search but couldn't find anything.
Surefire's TIR lense
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chesterqw
Flashlight Enthusiast
becoz lux I(or lux III) have a different design from lux V internally. an lux V have 4 die, and having them makes it difficult for it to be focus becoz the light pattern is different.
that is why, a tir lens that work with a lux I or III won't work with a lux V
that is why, a tir lens that work with a lux I or III won't work with a lux V
trouble,
They are slowly but surely getting around to it. The new L1, KL-1 and KL-3 have the new SAIC-designed TIR optics. The new KL-3 is in the second generation of TIR design for better spill (via concentric rings ground into the optic as I understand). The new K2 Kroma and Kroma Mil-Spec versions are also SAIC-designed TIR optics and I understand that these are second-generation designs also. Surefire is very careful and thorough before they release a product to the public, and the TIR optics now emerging have been in the oven for quite a while. Expect to see many more products with these optics in the future.
I am not qualified to comment on chesterqw's assertion above, but if true, Surefire has a lot of Luxeon V designs that would have to be re-thought. Part of the problem is: Do we want them?? A Luxeon V is a wonderful flood-machine. The L2, L4, L5, L6, and U2s are wonderful for what they were designed to do. If they ain't broke, let's not fix 'um. None of the lights listed above need to be "fixed". We already have the new KL-3 "option" for the KL-5 head, which may have been needed since the U2 supersedes it. But, I'm not sure anything else above would benefit by TIR replacement. The new E2L is an "option" for the L4, not a replacement. The new L1 is now a TIR and if you want spill, YOU MUST USE an F04. I'm not sure that this additional requirement (that increases the size of the light) is an improvement. It gives you a "throw" capability that was previously lacking but at the expense of everything else. Some like it, some don't. An optional head replacement for flood or throw would have been the answer. Then everybody would have bought one as an option. Now, a choice involves $135.00. Same problem with the E1L and E2L. If you are one of those that prefer throw at the expense of all else, this is wonderful. If not, this is a disaster. Surefire has responded to this problem (to a limited degree) with the in-line change to the KL-3, allowing more spill by grinding concentric rings into the TIR optics. I also understand that the new K2 models also have a different (or better?) TIR design that allows more spill. SOMEWHERE ALONE THE LINE WE EITHER HAVE TO STRIKE AN INTELLIGENT BALANCE OR WE HAVE TO GIVE THE CONSUMER AN OPTION!
In short, we will always need the power/flood option in the mix for specific need or personal preference. YMHO. Thinking out loud.
Hope this helps.
They are slowly but surely getting around to it. The new L1, KL-1 and KL-3 have the new SAIC-designed TIR optics. The new KL-3 is in the second generation of TIR design for better spill (via concentric rings ground into the optic as I understand). The new K2 Kroma and Kroma Mil-Spec versions are also SAIC-designed TIR optics and I understand that these are second-generation designs also. Surefire is very careful and thorough before they release a product to the public, and the TIR optics now emerging have been in the oven for quite a while. Expect to see many more products with these optics in the future.
I am not qualified to comment on chesterqw's assertion above, but if true, Surefire has a lot of Luxeon V designs that would have to be re-thought. Part of the problem is: Do we want them?? A Luxeon V is a wonderful flood-machine. The L2, L4, L5, L6, and U2s are wonderful for what they were designed to do. If they ain't broke, let's not fix 'um. None of the lights listed above need to be "fixed". We already have the new KL-3 "option" for the KL-5 head, which may have been needed since the U2 supersedes it. But, I'm not sure anything else above would benefit by TIR replacement. The new E2L is an "option" for the L4, not a replacement. The new L1 is now a TIR and if you want spill, YOU MUST USE an F04. I'm not sure that this additional requirement (that increases the size of the light) is an improvement. It gives you a "throw" capability that was previously lacking but at the expense of everything else. Some like it, some don't. An optional head replacement for flood or throw would have been the answer. Then everybody would have bought one as an option. Now, a choice involves $135.00. Same problem with the E1L and E2L. If you are one of those that prefer throw at the expense of all else, this is wonderful. If not, this is a disaster. Surefire has responded to this problem (to a limited degree) with the in-line change to the KL-3, allowing more spill by grinding concentric rings into the TIR optics. I also understand that the new K2 models also have a different (or better?) TIR design that allows more spill. SOMEWHERE ALONE THE LINE WE EITHER HAVE TO STRIKE AN INTELLIGENT BALANCE OR WE HAVE TO GIVE THE CONSUMER AN OPTION!
In short, we will always need the power/flood option in the mix for specific need or personal preference. YMHO. Thinking out loud.
Hope this helps.
dizzy
Flashlight Enthusiast
Hi trouble and welcome to CPF. My dad used to say "trouble" was my middle name.
Anyway, I have an L2 and love the extra spill along with the descent throw it has. Mine is the newer three rounded sides version with the longer bezel,which give it more throw than the older model.
I think if you want more throw than that in an LED light you need to go with the L5 or L6 which are much larger lights, but have a longer bezel to give it a more focused beam.
Anyway, I have an L2 and love the extra spill along with the descent throw it has. Mine is the newer three rounded sides version with the longer bezel,which give it more throw than the older model.
I think if you want more throw than that in an LED light you need to go with the L5 or L6 which are much larger lights, but have a longer bezel to give it a more focused beam.
a99raptors
Enlightened
Another point of view here,
I loved my U2 for awhile, but decided to use the A2 in light of its better "real-world" qualities.
Perhaps and incandescent lamp caters to your needs. It definitely has the throw, and it has good sidespill.
If reliability is an issue, just be aware that Surefire incandescents are among the best if not the best. Yes, an LED might not burn out in your lifetime, but there is no guarantee that it won't. Yes, an incandescent has an expected life-span, but by the time it burns out, chances are you already have something new.
I loved my U2 for awhile, but decided to use the A2 in light of its better "real-world" qualities.
Perhaps and incandescent lamp caters to your needs. It definitely has the throw, and it has good sidespill.
If reliability is an issue, just be aware that Surefire incandescents are among the best if not the best. Yes, an LED might not burn out in your lifetime, but there is no guarantee that it won't. Yes, an incandescent has an expected life-span, but by the time it burns out, chances are you already have something new.
Thanks for the welcomes and answers I appreciate them, I've got plenty of incandecsents but they look so yellow now after seeing LED's, I know it doesn't matter as long as you see what you need to.Anyway I guess I'm going to have to get a LED conversion for my M2 which is the KL5 and see how well it throws, and just be patient with Surefire. My dogs name is Trouble and he lives up to it believe me, he's always finding something to get into! It's easy for me to remember hence my screen namedizzy said:Hi trouble and welcome to CPF. My dad used to say "trouble" was my middle name.
Anyway, I have an L2 and love the extra spill along with the descent throw it has. Mine is the newer three rounded sides version with the longer bezel,which give it more throw than the older model.
I think if you want more throw than that in an LED light you need to go with the L5 or L6 which are much larger lights, but have a longer bezel to give it a more focused beam.
mykall
Enlightened
a99raptors said:
Here's the way I look at it. Yes an incan has an expected lifetime and an Led has an unknown lifetime. But with an incan you can carry a spare bulb, with most led lights you can't. Sooo if by chance, no matter how small, that led fails you're really up S.C.
MB
a99raptors
Enlightened
The only real backup is having another light.
Instead of getting the conversion head, might I suggest a U2 instead? Same type of light, more versatility, and its a completely separate platform so you can have more lights.
Instead of getting the conversion head, might I suggest a U2 instead? Same type of light, more versatility, and its a completely separate platform so you can have more lights.
carrot
Flashaholic
Hello and welcome to CPF.
Get the A2... it makes my LED lights look tinted. It's a very bright white beam...
Get the A2... it makes my LED lights look tinted. It's a very bright white beam...
a99raptors
Enlightened
The U2 throws really well, and I've read that the throw is similar to the L5 and L6. Among all the LEDs Surefire makes, I think these throw the furthest and brightest.
BUT, the simple incandescents like the 6P can throw a little further, and provide better colour rendition at night in the outdoors. Its all about give and take. Get an LED and you won't have to worry about a bulb blowing. The trade off is in range and colour.
Like carrot said, an A2 is a good choice. However, if 90% of your needs are indoors, then LEDs are great for colour indoors. (Strange but true in my experience).
BUT, the simple incandescents like the 6P can throw a little further, and provide better colour rendition at night in the outdoors. Its all about give and take. Get an LED and you won't have to worry about a bulb blowing. The trade off is in range and colour.
Like carrot said, an A2 is a good choice. However, if 90% of your needs are indoors, then LEDs are great for colour indoors. (Strange but true in my experience).
carrot
Flashaholic
My E1L seems to throw almost as well as my A2, although color rendition (and thus detail-spotting) at distances becomes terrible. The E1L/KL1 head is a very nice light outdoors, but don't count on it to be "better" than a powerful incandescent like the A2. After using my E1L for an extended period of time, I can count myself a fan of TIR optics, although I still love my reflectored lights (as much or more).
The unique TIR optics make it possible to apply a light for very specific things... such as the E1L's amazing spot beam, but I don't think reflectored lights are going to go anytime soon -- they're a much more mature, refined technology at this point, as are incandescent lights.
The unique TIR optics make it possible to apply a light for very specific things... such as the E1L's amazing spot beam, but I don't think reflectored lights are going to go anytime soon -- they're a much more mature, refined technology at this point, as are incandescent lights.
Size15's
Flashaholic
SureFire's work with SAIC developing TIR optics has always been that: "Developing"... I see them working towards being able to produce a beam from an LED that requires a shorter and/or narrower bezel than a reflector takes to produce a similar beam.
I believe it is fair to say that until recently (before the latest KL3 TIR optic) and the soon-to-be-released Kromas SureFire have yet to achieve the goal of a TIR optic that can replace a reflector sufficiently.
The future continues to look exceedingly bright!
Al
I believe it is fair to say that until recently (before the latest KL3 TIR optic) and the soon-to-be-released Kromas SureFire have yet to achieve the goal of a TIR optic that can replace a reflector sufficiently.
The future continues to look exceedingly bright!
Al
