any development in UK's knife ban?

hey all, I was just wondering if any British CPFers are also knife owners, and how they are coping with the recent knife "amnesty"(which apparently targeted kitchene knives, please correct me if I am misinformed, I read something in that nature on BBC). We watched years ago as you were disarmed systematically and now they have come after your tools. I may or may not travel there this fall if I can squeeze enough time between school and work, and wondering what I shouldn't bring to stay out of the British legal system....

Shops sell swords and dirks just down the street.....:thinking:

Hi, you could do worse than have a look over on the 'Britishblades' forum, they have quite a large legal aspects discussion going on.

In basic terms you are ok carrying a simple folding penknife with a blade length of less than 3 1/2 ''. Anything longer/locking/fixed blade/gravity assisted/inertia assisted/spring loaded etc is liable to get you arrested if discoverd.
The only excepition to this is if you can provide reasonable cause for you to be carrying the item. For example a chef travelling to work probably has 'reasonable cause' to be carrying a set of sharp, fixed blade knives, tools of the trade and so on..... The same chef found carrying an 18'' Bowie knife to a rock concert may well find himself in prison.....

Note.... This is just the law as I understand it, there are better qualified folk than me who should be able to explain the finer points.
Cheers,
Simon

When I recently traveled to the UK, I carried only my Leatherman Micra. The blade is non-locking, and short enough to be legal in the UK.

If it's at all possible for you to get to the UK, I highly recommend the experience. London is incredible, with all the cultural amenities of a great world city. Edinburgh is also a fantastic city, although much smaller and with a more relaxed pace. If you're a history buff, either city is rich with monuments and historic sites. I can't recommend the UK enough!

The knife amnesty is really just a PR exercise to make us think that something is being done to tackle incresing knife use in crime/assaults.

It allows granny to take in the old sword from WW2 which has been in the attic for 50 years, and a few moms to clear out the kitchen drawer. In the meantime the average thug still has the fancy knife tucked away in his jacket.

A blade less than 3" and not locking will generally be OK, but unless you look like one of our 'chavs' (see google!), and as long as you don't wave a blade around, then you are unlikely to be bothered by a passing Police person.

I don't really see the need for carrying a large blade on a holiday to the UK, unless you are staying out in the woods! A multitool or SAK or small penknife should suffice.

Oh BTW, there are mobile metal detectors at some train stations specifically for knife detecting, but they are only targeting those that look like they may be no-good knife carrying chavs.

dg said:

...but unless you look like one of our 'chavs' (see google!),

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Funny website...(I took your advice! )

http://www.chavscum.co.uk/

JM-99

I'm in the UK, and also in the British Military (Royal Air Force), and I'm still a little confused about the legal status of carrying a knife in public.

Quite rightly, knife crime needs to be taken seriously, but this should be done by deterrent sentencing, not criminalising items.

If I were to carry a knife in public, it would probably be my Spyderco project 1 or 2, which I think has a blade about 1.75" long, but is a locking knife, so I'm not sure if it's legal. Spyderco do make a 'UK legal' non locking 'penknife', but I don't own one of those yet, and I'm still not 100% sure whether these would be looked upon unfavourably either.

You can buy a whole set of kitchen knives for a few pounds, where one of my pocket knives costs $100+.

When I'm on duty, I carry a Spyderco Military, plain edge all the time, and it has served me very well, but I will admit, it looks a little 'scary' to a paranoid public, so something shorter may be better for civvy carry.

Hi RAF groundcrew,

I think that what the earlier poster might have been referring too was a story I saw on CNN a while back. Some xspurts were saying that a move is on in UK to require that all kitchen knives have the sharp point cut off.

The point :huh: was made that most murders using knives are done using kitchen knives.

Steve

I had to "check" my micra at the door at one tourist venue in London a couple of years ago. They looked at it and me with an awful suspicious eye until I spoke up, ah a "yank" that explains it.

Claimed it when I exited. I believe it was the Queen's Exhibition.

I edc a leatherman squirt on my keychain, and its teeny tiny non-locking blade will never be an issue. I also have a no.8 non-locking opinel knife for when I do want a more substantial, legal blade. That is all the more I would risk on my person, as to what I have at home, that is a different story.

This is positively the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.

WTF happened to England? Banning the carry of a locking pocket knife... idiots. Well at least they are getting what they deserve, let the .gov ban guns and of course they will ban something else next.

There wasnt an awful lot we could do about the gun ban, as our media is so totally under the control of various aspects of those running our country (note i didnt say government) that the general public get fed hype and nonsense and believe that, for example, taking away legal guns from properly vetter people is going to stop some crack dealing idiot from shooting somenone with a mac 10 which has always been illegal. There is a group now that is trying to ban shotguns at the moment becasue some kid shot kis girlfriend. Where i live a lot of people get stabbed with glasses and bottles, so in the summer we are not allowed to drink from them in pub gardens! One off license even stopped selling bottles!! England is going to the dogs and the sooner the public realises it the better.
marc

This topic irritates me.

There have been no major changes in the UK law for some time.
Only certain knives have been banned.
The law has made no difference to my carrying a Swiss Army Knife as I've done for the past 25 years. i.e. As a normal citizen it has had zero impact. I still go fishing with a razor sharp 6 inch fixed blade gutting knife. I just don't take it to the pub on a Friday night. That's called common sense.

Here is a link to the UK law on knives.

As for being disarmed.

Its tennis season here and Wimbledon is starting up soon. Andy Murray is our latest hope. Andy Murray was in a school in Dunblane in 1996 when Thomas Hamilton walked into the school. Thomas Hamilton killed 16 children and 1 teacher. I don't think we've had a similar incident since the laws on gun ownership were changed. Again a change in the law that has had zero impact on me apart from making me safer. I wonder how each of those 16 dead children might have grown.

Here's a link to murder rates across the world.

England and the UK are not going to the dogs. You just have to take part in society and not opt out and leave it to (blame) someone else.

Cheers.

back to the topic.

Come to the UK if you have chance. In my experience if you travel with an open mind you're received with an open hand. You'll be fine with a good torch and leatherman or SAK. Buy the Rough Guide and have a good look about.

(sorry folks, bump)

Just a couple points on issues raised.

...In basic terms you are ok carrying a simple folding penknife with a blade length of less than 3 1/2 ''. Anything longer/locking/fixed blade/gravity assisted/inertia assisted/spring loaded etc is liable to get you arrested if discoverd.
The only excepition to this is if you can provide reasonable cause for you to be carrying the item. For example a chef travelling to work probably has 'reasonable cause' to be carrying a set of sharp, fixed blade knives, tools of the trade and so on..... The same chef found carrying an 18'' Bowie knife to a rock concert may well find himself in prison.....

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Emphasis mine.

It is incomprehensible to me that so many could feel that defending one's own life or that of one's family could automatically be deemed unreasonable. The idea that this should be imposed on others, against their will, is tyrannical. The justice system should try to do better than just a simplistic reduction of self defense to the basics of might makes right. Even assuming that any kind of Gun/Knife Control reduces violent crime -- a huge assumption -- it will just mean that the bigger thug will always win when he attacks your wife or mother. That's not good enough for mine.

As far as the Andy Murray story goes:

...I wonder how each of those 16 dead children might have grown.

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Since we're wondering about things, I wonder if all of those 16 kids would have had to die if they hadn't been legally prohibited from carrying the means of protecting themselves? I refuse to consider all humans as helpless wretches who are incapable of defending themselves and others. I carried a knife to my government school every day and never killed even one person, although, strangely there are no statistics that show that. Hmmmm...

When your rationale that all victims of mass shootings are helpless idiots is projected onto adult victims it becomes even more absurd and dissembling.

A good example would be the famous Luby's Restaurant Massacre. Here's a bit from Wikipedia:

"On October 16, 1991 in Killeen, Texas a man named George Hennard drove his truck into a Luby's Restaurant, and then opened fire on the restaurant's patrons and staff. He killed 23 people and wounded 20 before he killed himself. As a direct result of this massacre, in 1995 Texas lawmakers, led by Suzanna Gratia Hupp (whose parents were both killed in the massacre), passed a law that allowed Texas citizens to obtain a concealed carry handgun permit in part as a reaction against the massacre."

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The interesting part (which Wikipedia carefully does not mention) is that Suzanna Gratia Hupp had a handgun in her vehicle and thought long and hard about whether she should break the law and carry her gun, concealed, into the cafe. She did not. She thought about it, but she obeyed the law.

That is the reason that she became obsessed with changing the Texas concealed carry law. Do not automatically assume that everyone who has been disarmed by the state is incapable of defending themselves and others.

If anyone thinks that they are too stupid or too helpless to defend themselves and others it is very unfortunate from a societal point of view, but it's OK, if they feel they are not worth protecting from violence, perhaps they are right. I won't argue about their value to society.

The real problem for me is that those who feel that their lives and those of their families aren't worth defending often think that the lives of me and my family aren't worth defending, either. That's not their call.

"reasonable cause" is one of the worst government-abused word ever

California has a CCW policy where the Chief Law Enforcement Officer has discretion to judge by "good cause" to issue permits.

In reality in california, you cannot get a permit unless you are on good terms(read, rich people, poltical donors, influential, Diane Feinstein) with the Sheriff or Chief of Police, or you are one of the few living in a small rural community.

One quesion I always find very disturbing is "why would you need to carry a concelaed weapon?"

answer: to get a permit, you must go through a background check, pay a fee, and go through through training on safety and responsibility of owning nad carrying one.

IMHO those who go through all that trouble are the most responsbile citiznes around, since they are not afraid of a background check and usually have spotless records.

Back on topic, I do plan on visiting the UK, but am also wary of going to a place where Rebecca Peters is from...

just slightly off topic.

I remember hearing about an old english law, requiring every englishman to have an longbow.

We won a lot of battles with the longbow in the middle ages.

Thats were the V for victory sign came from, If the enemy caught an long bowman they use to cut the two finger off that you pulled the bow string with.

So the english longbow men used to make an v sign at their enemy`s to show they still had their two bow fingers.

regards.

Sub-umbra,

Did you suggest 8 year olds should carry knives or guns to protect themselves from a 43 year old nutter?

I'm just saying that since the ban we've not had another Dunblane (17 dead) or a Hungerford(16 dead) or ..... in the UK. What you in the US do with your constitution is up to you.

I'm just giving another view of the world from my sandals up.

Hey 270winchester you visit where Tinderbox lives as the fish and chips there are exceptional. I'm sure a list of suitable estaiblishments can be furnished.

Wiki says an umbra is the bit where the sun don't shine?:laughing:

Cheers

leduk said:

I'm just saying that since the ban we've not had another Dunblane (17 dead) or a Hungerford(16 dead) or ..... in the UK.

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Knee-jerk, reactionary lawmaking is dang near always a bad idea -- yeilding bad results.

To eradicate a human right, under the guise of preventing the few crazy people from causing harm, is never a good trade off.

Yes, our Constitution is a bit different than what you red coats live under But the fact is that we yanks believe that the Constitution is about inalienable and self-evident human rights.

Many of us are sick of watching once good countries fall victim to the domino effect (i.e. Canada, UK, Aus). Each country that has banned guns experinced a large uptick in violent crime. You exchanged the very rare mass shooting for indiviual shootings, muggings, rape, robbery, and home invasions... all on the average street.

Your UK stats have been skewed due to recent changes in how the police over there record crimes. An unsolved crime is no longer entered into the stats... an easy way to make crime rates go down.

Gun control directly relates to knife control. Both bans seek to simply ban a tool, rather than address the indiviuals who abuse the tool.

A ban on locking blade pocket knives is actually unsafe. One is much less likely to be injured while using a locking blade knife.

Fact is that each country gets the government it deserves, and usually it is the majority suffering their illigetimate 'opinion' onto the minority -- and freedom always suffers.

I've lived on both sides of the pond and both countries suffer from forms of illogical group psychosis in relation to societal problems.

Well guys, my bad, I did not intend for this thread to be another one of those controversial topics that belong in underground.

I am still looking to secure the time to head ove the pond. I just won't bring any of my knives with locking mechanism and bring a can of pepper spray instead.

I do howver look forward to a good pitcher of ale and some good chips....