The dealers have them, but I can't find it on the www.fenixlight.com website. Did they discontinue them?? :huh2:
Where's the Civictor???
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Matt Sutton
Newly Enlightened
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http://fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=76
It's probably too soon to expect the manufacturer to have it it on their site. The dealer pages have all the stats on it.
It's probably too soon to expect the manufacturer to have it it on their site. The dealer pages have all the stats on it.
4sevens
Flashlight Enthusiast
Matt Sutton said:
Officially Civictor is not part of the Fenix line.
Keep your eyes peeled for a super CPF civictor deal coming after Father's day
Jay R
Flashlight Enthusiast
The same factory makes the Civictor but they don't market it under the Fenix name so I wouldn't expect them to show it on the Fenix site. I don't know why, it's not a bad product and deserves the Fenix name.
theamazingrando
Newly Enlightened
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Ooooo! A special deal? I was planning to buy a Civictor under the Fathers' Day sale...but I'll wait.
I don't mean to nitpick, but it's just slightly confusing to see:4sevens said:Officially Civictor is not part of the Fenix line.
Keep your eyes peeled for a super CPF civictor deal coming after Father's day
"Introducing the Civictor V1! It's the most affordable Fenix to date. But expect the same quality found in all entire Fenix line."
...and then be told it's not designed by Fenix, but instead manufactured by one of Fenix's partners.
nerdgineer
Flashlight Enthusiast
I haven't heard that yet. JayR said above it WAS made in the same factory. On another thread, 4sevens pointed out that it uses an exact (so marked) L1P board, so I think it's both designed and manufactured by Fenix.amanichen said:
Mine have the same quality as my L1Ps (minus HAIII and AR glass) and also the same output suggesting that all 3 out of 3 have R bin luxes in them. However YMMV.
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Again, I'm not trying to nitpick, I'm just trying to figure out the following:nerdgineer said:
1. Who signs off on the Fenix mechanical and electrical drawings?
2. Who turns raw materials into Fenix Parts?
3. Who assembles the Fenix parts into a flashlight?
(...and the same for the Civictor.)
Steps 1, 2, and 3 aren't always done in the same building and aren't always done by the same company either...
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Brighteyez
Flashlight Enthusiast
There are a lot of companies throughout the world that are known as "fabless". They have no manufacturing or production capabilities and only do design, marketing, and sales. Those who are into computer probably know of NVIDIA as the world leader in PC video processors, but many people are not aware that they do not do any manufacturing. And many of the manufacturers who use their controllers to produce PC video cards are also fabless, using NVIDIA's reference design and a Taiwanese/Chinese assembly house to produce the video cards.
Similarly, it would not come as a surprise if the Fenix products were produced by a contract manufacturer. And as is often the case with Chinese manufacturers, sometimes they'll sell off the rejects to another vendor, or even have some sort of 'back-door' arrangement to produce goods, without license, to another customer.
This isn't limited to China either, a rather prominent example occurred right here in the Silicon Valley recently. A Taiwanese company called Cyberhome was once licensed to import and sell DVD players under the Philips brand name. Last week, the company was raided and much of their inventory was seized, based upon a complaint from Philips that this company was continuing to produce DVD players under the Philips name even though their licensing had been revoked since March (for non-payment of licensing fees.) Not really clear if Philips plans to absorb responsibliity for the unlawfully produced players, and the whole case is still under investigation by the Santa Clara County DA's office. Cyberhome has removed their Contact information from their web site.
Similarly, it would not come as a surprise if the Fenix products were produced by a contract manufacturer. And as is often the case with Chinese manufacturers, sometimes they'll sell off the rejects to another vendor, or even have some sort of 'back-door' arrangement to produce goods, without license, to another customer.
This isn't limited to China either, a rather prominent example occurred right here in the Silicon Valley recently. A Taiwanese company called Cyberhome was once licensed to import and sell DVD players under the Philips brand name. Last week, the company was raided and much of their inventory was seized, based upon a complaint from Philips that this company was continuing to produce DVD players under the Philips name even though their licensing had been revoked since March (for non-payment of licensing fees.) Not really clear if Philips plans to absorb responsibliity for the unlawfully produced players, and the whole case is still under investigation by the Santa Clara County DA's office. Cyberhome has removed their Contact information from their web site.
nerdgineer
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'm entertaining myself here, so bear with me...amanichen said:
I doubt we'll ever find out the specific "who" for these, but I have the following suppositions:
1. Does Fenix know about the Civictor and approve?
I'm guessing, yes, or else they would be screaming at 4sevens and everyone else with Civics advertised to get those things off their Fenix sales sites. If Fenix knows, then I'm guessing Fenix said OK, you can share at least retail space with us; and normal brand protection suggests that therefore, whoever designed the Civic design would have gotten Fenix's approval at some level before commiting to fab.
2. Does Fenix share common parts with the L1P?
Clearly, Fenix has many different parts: glass, bezel shell, body, and so on. As for common parts, it looks like at least the PCB is common with the L1P. The components on the board may or may not be; but Chevrofreak's amended measurements suggest very L1P like electrical behavior in the Civictor. I'm guessing that the former L1P light engine production line was simply redirected toward the Civic since it looks like L1P's are no longer being made.
What about the Lux? The "all R bin" Lux pre-selection of the L1P is probably not maintained for the Civic as it is not promised in the ads. However, I'm pretty sure many Civic Luxes are R binned - probably due to lower variation in Lumileds production if nothing else.
My own "total output" (quasi-lumens) measurements - not to be confused with Chevro's and others' lux measurements - of Civics and L1Ps show very similar total outputs for my 6 samples (3 & 3). The Civic lux (central hotspot brightness) measurements are about 10% lower than the L1Ps due to scattering by the non-AR glass which reduces the hot spot by about the glass' reflectivity (~10%), but redistributes the scattered light into the spill so you still do get to use that light.
Finally, I can think of no reason why Fenix would find second sources for the little parts: 0 rings, retaining rings, heat sinks, etc. if they have suitable Fenix parts supply already set up.
3. Who turns raw materials into Fenix parts?
Don't know but I would guess that it would be the same GROUP of suppliers who make Fenix parts now. Companies like to work with the same vendors where they can because established relatiionships reduce teething problems - for them and for us. I'm guessing that whoever cuts the L1P tubes would have made a near lowest bid to cut the knurled Civic tubes and that Fenix would have probably taken them up on it. Don't know, just my thinking.
4. Who assembles the parts?
Don't know, and I don't care THAT much if they have the same light engine. The Civic quality I see in mine is very good, fully the equal of the L1Ps.
Given the very Fenix like performance measured by Chevro and others for Civic, I've personally just stepped back up and said - in my best engineering pedantese - "Yeah, close enough.."
LEDninja
Flashlight Enthusiast
My Civictor is dimmer than my L1P and a warmer white with a hint of green.
I've got the Civictor head on the L1P body in my pocket. The L1P head is on the Civictor body bezel down in the pouch. I like clickies but do not want to damage the AR coating of the L1P so the funny arrangement.
Posts from other CPFers say the swap does not always work.
I've got the Civictor head on the L1P body in my pocket. The L1P head is on the Civictor body bezel down in the pouch. I like clickies but do not want to damage the AR coating of the L1P so the funny arrangement.
Posts from other CPFers say the swap does not always work.
Speculation is great for entertainment, but I was looking for some sort of solid answer, just to satisfy my own curiousity. The fact that this thread exists shows that I'm not the only one wondering what connection these lights have to the Fenix name, because rumors about "made in the same factory" doesn't explain the whole process.nerdgineer said:
4sevens
Flashlight Enthusiast
Funny how far things can get from the truth when allowed to run.
Fenix makes the civictor but does not bear the Fenix name.
The name Fenix implies certain things that not everyone needs
like HA3 and AR lens and guaranteed R-bin flux. Civictor is designed
for the competition but does not compromise in it's design.
1. fenix does know about civictor. the same company makes it.
2. though the v1 has similar parts to the l1p/l2p, they are not designed
to be compatible. Some may work, some not. your miles will vary.
BTW, the L1P/L2P are NOT being discontinued at the moment. I intend
to carry them in my store as long as they are available. And believe me,
they are still alive and kicking. (as far as sales is concerned)
3,4 I don't know. But at their volume, they must be using more than
one machining factory.
two more points I must make...
Looking at the chev's graphs, it's safe to say that the circuits are the same
given their characteristics... Some of you are looking too close into
the graphs. Thanks to lumileds, we all play the luxeon lottery not only
with tint and with flux AND with Vf. Which will affect your brightness,
runtime and color. Experienced modders will tell you that within the
SAME batch of the SAME exact bin you will find quite a range of tint,
brightness and vf. It's not an exact science. They baking cookies at
lumileds.
4sevens
Fenix makes the civictor but does not bear the Fenix name.
The name Fenix implies certain things that not everyone needs
like HA3 and AR lens and guaranteed R-bin flux. Civictor is designed
for the competition but does not compromise in it's design.
1. fenix does know about civictor. the same company makes it.
2. though the v1 has similar parts to the l1p/l2p, they are not designed
to be compatible. Some may work, some not. your miles will vary.
BTW, the L1P/L2P are NOT being discontinued at the moment. I intend
to carry them in my store as long as they are available. And believe me,
they are still alive and kicking. (as far as sales is concerned)
3,4 I don't know. But at their volume, they must be using more than
one machining factory.
two more points I must make...
Looking at the chev's graphs, it's safe to say that the circuits are the same
given their characteristics... Some of you are looking too close into
the graphs. Thanks to lumileds, we all play the luxeon lottery not only
with tint and with flux AND with Vf. Which will affect your brightness,
runtime and color. Experienced modders will tell you that within the
SAME batch of the SAME exact bin you will find quite a range of tint,
brightness and vf. It's not an exact science. They baking cookies at
lumileds.
4sevens
nerdgineer said:
AFAustin
Flashlight Enthusiast
4sevens said:Officially Civictor is not part of the Fenix line.
Keep your eyes peeled for a super CPF civictor deal coming after Father's day
Wish I'd known that before I ordered during the Father's Day Sale!
ODS
Newly Enlightened
I can back up the reports about the Civictor coming from Fenix. If you compare the back of a V1 packaging to that of any other Fenix product then you will clearly see that the light is produced by the same Electronics company. Fenix is only a brand name, there is a True name to the accual company that produces the lights. Shenzhen LangHeng Electronics Co., Ltd. the only thing different is that the last 4 digits in the telephone number is different, but the physical address is the same.
I did my research on this flashlight well before any light (no pun intended) fell upon it here on CPF and anyone knew of it outside the Chinese forums.
I only knew of it as I had been in constant talks with Fenix about carrying their line in the UK. The first ever true knife show in the UK was recently held and we was a exhibitor of more than just knives, so Fenix kindly sent us a demo model to take to the show... I believe, according to Fenix, we was the first dealer to have one in our hands outside the Chinese forums where some of you have now found information relating to the Civictor.
The Civictor is designed off the P1 circuit as pointed out by several people here.
It is also designed to be affordable and compete with other brands in pricing, yet still give good value for money. Which in my opion it does do that.
cheers,
Joe
I did my research on this flashlight well before any light (no pun intended) fell upon it here on CPF and anyone knew of it outside the Chinese forums.
I only knew of it as I had been in constant talks with Fenix about carrying their line in the UK. The first ever true knife show in the UK was recently held and we was a exhibitor of more than just knives, so Fenix kindly sent us a demo model to take to the show... I believe, according to Fenix, we was the first dealer to have one in our hands outside the Chinese forums where some of you have now found information relating to the Civictor.
The Civictor is designed off the P1 circuit as pointed out by several people here.
It is also designed to be affordable and compete with other brands in pricing, yet still give good value for money. Which in my opion it does do that.
cheers,
Joe
discoverEDC
Enlightened
4sevens, how long are we going to have to wait for the super CPF after fathers day sale on the Civictor? I'd like to get one. (1st time new customer....)
abvidledUK
Flashlight Enthusiast
4sevens said:Keep your eyes peeled for a super CPF civictor deal coming after Father's day
I'm waiting .......
ODS said:
Maybe I don't understand the amount of electrical engineering that goes into this, but if one light can take 4volts...and the other can only take 1.5-1.7 volts....How similar could they be? We're not talking about supercomputers here. If they're that different right off that batt, makes me think they're not so similar as to be 'designed off' the other. A civictor for $30 that could take 4 volts and a lux3 would be pretty nice though :naughty:
