Smithsonian removes electric-car exhibit

Smithsonian removes electric-car exhibit

"Just weeks before the release of a movie about the death of the electric car from the 1990s, the Smithsonian Institution has removed its EV1 electric sedan from display.

The National Museum of American History removed the rare exhibit yesterday, just as interest in electric and hybrid vehicles is on the rise.

The upcoming film "Who Killed the Electric Car?" questions why General Motors created the battery-powered vehicles and then crushed the program a few years later. The film opens June 30th.

GM happens to be one of the Smithsonian's biggest contributors. But museum and GM officials say that had nothing to do with the removal of the EV1 from display."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1155AP_Electric_Car_Booted.html

The timing is certainly interesting, but correlation is not to be confused with causation.

Good point, Idle (btw, great sig).

And, I'll restrict any direct commentary of that article to simply this -

Information from: The Washington Com-Post, http://www.washingtonpost.compost

As far as "Who Killed the Electric Car?"... did someone really have to spend the time and money to make a frickin' movie about this? Seems pretty simple. If there was tons of money to be made from a free-willed, buying public, GM, and everyone else would be selling battery and/or hybrid vehicles like there's no tomorrow.

Maybe the general public hasn't been quite brainwashed enough yet. Fortunately, they might never be. But, the jury's still out, and time will tell.

Edit: This is coming from someone who has driven hybrid vehicles, and actually liked the experience... my point is purely political/philisophical.

Bimmerboy,
Your response will probably be seen by our local EV nut. Back in the 90's he leased one of the EV1's they are talking about in the movie. This is the first I've heard of a movie but I would be surprised if our EV nut didn't have some input during its filming. I say that to get you ready for his reply. I would be shocked if he doesn't hit you with facts and figures as to why the EV1 was the greatest thing to hit California since sliced tofu.

From what I've heard of the movie, it raises some interesting points. The automakers certainly did not like EVs based on their responses after the ZEV mandate was litigated out of existence. Whether those point to a conspiracy to kill the EV or it's just an inevitable reaction to a concept lacking sufficient market is hard to say. I can tell you from indirect experience that the people who leased or own EVs really love their vehicles almost without exception.

I predict the next post will be from Darell.

Who Killed the Electric Car? You haven't heard of the movie Dave!? Where ya been?

Review
Review
Chris Pain's Blog (director)
And links to trailers and such directly from the top of my EV home page. (surprising, I know!)

Yes, I know a bit about it. Check for me in the credits - they're alphabetical, so you don't need to wait too long. If you haven't already done so, run out right now and contact your local independant theater and ask them to screen it. Full release on July 28.

The movie isn't just about GM And the EV1, BTW. Though they both play large roles in the movie for the simple reason that they both played such large roles in the real-time drama that I was wrapped up in at the time. Everybody is accused - yes, even those confused consumers.

I also know a bit about the Smithsonian car. A compatriot stumbled across it almost by accident. Was surprised to see it on display, and then realized it was HIS CAR! Phil Karn was the lease holder until it was taken back, stripped of its running gear and put on display. Now, just a few months later it is trucked to storage *indefinitely*.

Much to Dave's chagrin, I don't put much (any?) stock in any big conspiracy to remove it right before the movie comes out. That would just serve to put more publicity on the situation and would be a stupid move. And GM has shown no effort in trying to conceal anything now that they have no cars on the road to hide.

Empath said:

I predict the next post will be from Darell.

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Just for you, Empath. Just for you.

Bimmerboy said:

Seems pretty simple. If there was tons of money to be made from a free-willed, buying public, GM, and everyone else would be selling battery and/or hybrid vehicles like there's no tomorrow.

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At the risk of confusing Dave... I agree with this. There isn't anything to disagree with. It is the point that Dave has been making to me for years, and there's simply no fighting it. GM made a business decision to abandon EVs, and so did the other car makers. This isn't a surprise or a shock to anybody. It is MUCH easier to keep making money on the product that everybody is comfortable with. Always has been, and likely always will be. Any idea how hard it was to sell gasoline cars when they first came out?!

It sounds like you are making the point that EVs are no good because car companies can't quickly make money on them? Or is instant economic viability what we should be basing our energy policy and our national security on?

I don't agree that this decision was best for the consumer or the country or even the world. But the decision to toss EVs was best for the auto business in the most common way that car companies consider these things - in the short term. Many people confuse what's best for the consumer with what the business sees as best for the shareholders in the short term. In the auto industry, these ideals have been at odds through all of automotive history. GM's money (well, the money that they used to have) is tied up in all the facets of ICE manufacture. They can't turn on a dime and start making cars that have the potential to make their core product obsolete. How dumb would that be? If you make a car that is marketed on being fast, clean and better for the environment, you are admitting that your core product is none of those things.

Maybe the general public hasn't been quite brainwashed enough yet. Fortunately, they might never be. But, the jury's still out, and time will tell.

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This I don't understand. The public hasn't been brainwashed into wanting EVs or hybrids enough? I can't comment until I understand your point here. Brainwashing has certainly happened. And it has been done by those who have the money - not by the few consumers with direct experience.

Edit: This is coming from someone who has driven hybrid vehicles, and actually liked the experience... my point is purely political/philisophical.

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You'll have to help me here. Still don't get it.

DieselDave and Idle - Over the last 1 1/2 years since becoming a member of this fine establishment (and I do love it here, although I haven't had occasion to spend as much time here lately), I've seen the talented EV-meister in action. Strong personality, no doubt, and he can make some good points in favor of EV. But, even in my Bass Ale induced state this evening, I'll make a good counter to any point because the economics are on my side (and will consistently say so in a state of sobriety as well). Again, I say this as someone who likes, and is fascinated by EV and hybrids. Always have been.

If this is the direction people really wanted to go in, in their heart of hearts, as opposed to the direction they're essentially battered into day after day, they would go that way in droves. The economics are just not there because the costs are not justified over plain 'ol internal combuston. And much of life, when you get down to it and all nonsense aside, is a game of cost (not using the word "game" perjoratively).

Whoa... he's not only fulfilled prophecy, but by a factor of three.

Reading, but may have to give my responses in the morning over a cup of joe. Long day, no food, and many beers are taking their toll. Surprised I lasted this long.

Bimmerboy said:

DieselDave and Idle - Over the last 1 1/2 years since becoming a member of this fine establishment (and I do love it here, although I haven't had occasion to spend as much time here lately), I've seen the talented EV-meister in action. Strong personality, no doubt, and he can make some good points in favor of EV.

Click to expand...

Ah well, shucks. Thanks for the nice words. Now let's go out back and beat the snot out of each other.

I'll make a good counter to any point because the economics are on my side

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Ah... but what happens when I conced the financial point? (with a caveat - see below). You'll need more!

The economics are just not there because the costs are not justified over plain 'ol internal combuston.

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There's no question that there will be a cost to change. There always is. But in the same built quantity, it has been demonstrated many times that BEVs would end up costing approximately the same amount of money to build. How much would it cost to build just 800 Honda Civics from scratch... by hand... with no other subassemblies to rely on for building blocks? That's what the BEVs of the past were up against. And it was freaking expensive of course. But hell - nobody can prove any of this because nobody has tried. And nobody but the big car makers CAN try on the scale needed.

And much of life, when you get down to it and all nonsense aside, is a game of cost (not using the word "game" perjoratively).

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It certainly is. And once we all pay all the costs associated with the fuel we burn, EVs get pretty cheap pretty damn fast. We DO pay those costs of cousre - just not directly. And it is tough to put a price on health and security, isn't it? In my little world, I don't see how we can afford to continue down the ICE path. Really, I don't. Seems cheap on the surface, but (maybe when you're sober) scratch the surface a bit and see what gasoline is really costing us. Not just the money. But the stuff that matters.

Bimmerboy said:

Whoa... he's not only fulfilled prophecy, but by a factor of three.

Reading, but may have to give my responses in the morning over a cup of joe. Long day, no food, and many beers are taking their toll. Surprised I lasted this long.

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Been there, done that and I totally understand! You won't be held responsible for anything you say here tonight. Or ever, really. Surprisinly, even *I* have better things to do with my time! I'll be hosting a Q&A session after the premier of "Who Killed" when it plays here in town.

We did margaritas here, actually. Freaking HOT!

Darrell, you are most definitely a worthy opponent... one that I WILL have to be sober to do battle with. You've also done your homework here more than I have. I'll be bach (und you be Beethoven).

Edit: Forgive me for petering out for now. My mind is into it, but the body is not.

No, you can't argue with the economics ... when you hand-build a few hundred cars and your lifeblood is mass-production of hundreds of vehicles per hour, it's impossible to make money on a car priced for the average consumer.

I think the automakers felt pushed into making them in the first place because of the CA ZEV mandate. If they weren't enthusiastic about the concept... their actions make sense.

Anyway ... this post started with a discussion of the odd timing of the removal of one of the few EV1s on display neatly coinciding with a documentary about the disappearance of most production EVs from the road. GM denies it and the musem denies it, so unless some new information arises...

It should have been moved to my garage. I would be happy to have it in my car museum! (With periodic road testing of course!)

Bimmerboy said:

Darrell, ...You've also done your homework here more than I have. I'll be bach (und you be Beethoven).

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A much as it pains me to say it, he's not only done his homework but he has a MBA, PHD, completed his residency and internship on the topic.

From my perspective debating EV's with Darell is like debating bicycle racing strategy with Lance Armstrong.

who killed the Electric Car?

http://motoralley.blogspot.com/2006/06/who-killed-electric-car.html

A different point of view from a guy who had one

KC2IXE said:

who killed the Electric Car?

http://motoralley.blogspot.com/2006/06/who-killed-electric-car.html

A different point of view from a guy who had one

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Wow. All it took was the first bullet item to realize this guy isn't who he thinks he is. Then reading a couple more, and I just glossed over the rest, I'm afraid. I see he stuck in the financial aspect. Good on him! I do agree with his "better solutions" though. I'd sure not seen that site before, and am glad you gave a pointer to it!

Anybody interested in MY point of view "from a guy who had one?"

Here's a Washington Post article on the very subject of this thread.

click

I can tell already that I'll not be able to keep up with this thread... and I'm heading out for a week starting tomorrow!