Dorcy Super 1W (CR123) and RCR123 /experiences??

Newuser01 · Jun 21, 2006

Ok....I've read all the pages that come up while searching for Dorcy Super 1 watt and unable to find a definitive answer. Some have tried it and said it was ok.

Now what I would like to know is that how long is the run time with RCR123s.
Is the light reliable? Any1 blown their Dorcy? (I know its not expensive but still 20+tax at Target.) But still........

What brand of charger and RCR123s Do you use?

Thanks in advance!

Newbie
PS. If there was a thread about this already, me bad!! Please tell me where it is and let this one die gracefully.:scowl:

jnj1033 · Jun 22, 2006

I've had one for a couple of months, and it is still my EDC light. I haven't tried rechargeables with it yet, but I've used it enough to go through three or four 123 cells. The beam quality is fantastic: tight enough that I can spot at a reasonable distance, but not so tight as to be useless for close-up work.

Some complaints:

1. Flickering, usually when the battery is depleted. Smacking it seems to
help. I suspect a loose connection in the switch.

2. The threads on my tailcap are not properly aligned; it screws in securely, but slightly crooked. More of a cosmetic problem than anything, but it bugs me a little.

3. The clickie switch is a little too exposed, and requires very little effort to operate it. As a result, the light occasionally gets turned on in my pocket when it bumps my keys. I have depleted a couple of batteries that way. Good thing it's not a 2x123 light.

Walt175 · Jun 22, 2006

I've used mine with both 3v and 3.6v RCR123's with no problems. Haven't done any formal runtime tests, but it is less then Cr123's. Also , since the RCR's are protected, the light just shuts off with no "moon mode". One minute it's working fine at near full brightness, the next minute nothing!
It is a little brighter on the 3.6v's.

stjohnh · Jun 22, 2006

I've wondered about this also: This is what I've done...

With a new regular 123 cell left the light on for 5 min, noticed head barely warm, immediately removed head, took out module and noticed the egdes of the star are very warm, but not hot. Current draw about .6 amps, assuming 3 volts and 70% boost circuit efficiency that comes to 3x.6x.7= 1.3 watts to emitter.

I then did the same with a freshly charged rechargable unprotected RCR123 cell. The head became moderately warm, but feeling the edge of the star was VERY hot. Current .9amps, assuming 4.0 volts and 70% gives 2.5 watts to the emitter. This seems about right, since the Dorcy w a RCR123 is about as bright as my other 3 watt lights.

Generally luxeons can be overdriven quite a bit IF..... good heat sinking. Well, this light has TERRIBLE heat sinking, no metal at all touches the star and its mostly surrounded by plastic.

I would love to run this light w a RCR123, but am very much afraid of either burning out the luxeon (they don't like running hot) or melting the plastic of the head module. I've tried to think of a way to improve the heat sinking, but so far haven't come up w a good idea.

Holland

Newuser01 · Jun 22, 2006

Hi Every1 !!
Jnj1033..... Good info.

But would tailcap misalligned and may be loose causing your problem?
I DO totally aggree with the switch which don't allow it to stand on tail and spring for the switch may be not strong enough. I might try to open it up and see if I could make the sprint a little longer or may be replace it with stronger spring.

PS......What is EDC means?

Walt 175.......Thanks!

Do you know if led gets hot? If this works well, So if I use RCR123, I would have to carry CR123 as a backup. What charger and brand of RCR's do you use?

Stjohnh....... Nice!!

So the idea now is coming up with a good heatsink! When using protected RCR123 (but using it intermitant only, not more than a min or 2).

Question now is is there a rechargables that only give you 3.0 v that can be safely used in this light??
If any1 used this setup (RCR123's) in this light did it blow the LED/Circuits ??

T!!!

Newbie..

stjohnh · Jun 22, 2006

EDC= Every Day Carry.... the light you put in your pocket every day.

I did use the RCR123 battey for 5 min, and hesitate to do that again without better heat sinking. I wouldn't worry about using it for 1-2 min as is.

There are rechargable 123 cells that are down regulated to 3 volts, I think they would probably work fine, but run time is probably not good, and no brigher than standard non-rechargable primary CR123 cells. Your only benefit is less money spent on batteries.

The advantage of standard "3.7" volt rechargable Li-Ion cells is the light is MUCH brighter.

Holland

Randy Shackleford · Jun 22, 2006

stjohnh said:
I've wondered about this also: This is what I've done...

With a new regular 123 cell left the light on for 5 min, noticed head barely warm, immediately removed head, took out module and noticed the egdes of the star are very warm, but not hot. Current draw about .6 amps, assuming 3 volts and 70% boost circuit efficiency that comes to 3x.6x.7= 1.3 watts to emitter.

I then did the same with a freshly charged rechargable unprotected RCR123 cell. The head became moderately warm, but feeling the edge of the star was VERY hot. Current .9amps, assuming 4.0 volts and 70% gives 2.5 watts to the emitter. This seems about right, since the Dorcy w a RCR123 is about as bright as my other 3 watt lights.

Generally luxeons can be overdriven quite a bit IF..... good heat sinking. Well, this light has TERRIBLE heat sinking, no metal at all touches the star and its mostly surrounded by plastic.

I would love to run this light w a RCR123, but am very much afraid of either burning out the luxeon (they don't like running hot) or melting the plastic of the head module. I've tried to think of a way to improve the heat sinking, but so far haven't come up w a good idea.

Holland

Take the mAh reading directly from the star under load, not the tail. The regulator board brings ~350mAh w/ CRC123 and ~600(fresh) ~500 mAh w/ RCR123. Under load, a fresh RCR123 through the regulator pushes about ~3.4V w/ H-bin Vf 1W star.

even at 100% efficiency it's closer to 2 watts on a RCR123....still nice and hot

Brighteyez · Jun 22, 2006

I've used the 3.0V Tenergy RCR123 batteries in this light ever since I got it. Other than a few minutes with a CR123 battery when it was new, I've never used anything but a rechargeable in this light. I don't know what the run time is, as I try to make it a habit not to run LIon batteries all the way down. I charge the battery about once a week and would guesstimate that I probably run the light about 30-45 minutes a week (or between charges.)

I would have some concerns about your considering this though, given your other concerns. If blowing a $20 light is going to be a problem for you, then $30 order for batteries and a charger might not fit well. After all, $30 can buy a lot of batteries, possibly more than you would ever use with the light.

Newuser01 said:
Ok....I've read all the pages that come up while searching for Dorcy Super 1 watt and unable to find a definitive answer. Some have tried it and said it was ok.

Now what I would like to know is that how long is the run time with RCR123s.
Is the light reliable? Any1 blown their Dorcy? (I know its not expensive but still 20+tax at Target.) But still........

What brand of charger and RCR123s Do you use?

Thanks in advance!

Newbie
PS. If there was a thread about this already, me bad!! Please tell me where it is and let this one die gracefully.:scowl:

Walt175 · Jun 22, 2006

I'm using the RCR123's in a light modified with a Flupic. Since there is a voltage drop across the Flupic board, I'm not hitting the LED with the full 3.6v. With the 3.0v cells, in burst mode it's about as bright as stock. With the 3.6v cells it's slightly brighter then stock. Of course no matter what light you have a Flupic in, the advise not to use burst for long periods of time.
I'm using batteries purchased from AW.

nightrider · Jun 22, 2006

I just did a runtime test using a Tenergy 3.0v RCR123A 900mah Li-Ion rechargeable. 58 minutes before the protection circuitry of the battery shut the light off. Very little noticable dimming during the runtime.

Note: this cell had only been recharged once. The documentation that came with the batteries/chargers says the the batteries will not reach their full rated capacity until 3 to 5 charge cycles.

FYI. Comparison with other lights using these batteries:
Fenix P1 - 45 mins
Jet-1 - 27 mins.

Triangle-66 · Jun 23, 2006

I have been using my Dorcy Super 1 Watt with RCR123's ( unprotected 800MaH 3.7v AWs - IIRC ) for three or four months. The light is still as bright as the first time I put the Li-ion in it, usually I run it until the light gets noticibly dim the lowest it ever went was 1.97 v and it still works fine. I use this light everyday whether at work or to pick up after the dog at night. It does get warm if run continiously put not unreasonably, the longest I remember haviing it on was about one hour and then it needed recharged.

The batteries and the charger together were something like $20 shipped. I have charged it probably 20 to 30 times ( I use this light all of the time ) and I have had no problems using the rechargeable - unprotected - Li-ion batteries.

Setting aside all of the technical info, in practical everyday use there is N-O problem using the RCR123s.

Newuser01 · Jun 23, 2006

Thanks everyone!! stjohnh, Randy Shackleford, Brighteyez, Walt175, nightrider and Triangle-66....

So far.

We have 2 users using RCR123's on regular basics. Seems to be going good.
3.0V Tenergy RCR123 is one of the batteries used.

I think run time is good. But there is a little worry about going dead suddenly, have to keep an eye on charging up regularly or carry a spare CR123. Dont think I'll be doing anything like Flupin or anything like that!
Does any1 have this charger and battery and if so how do they do?
HERE!

Will check back soon!
Regards.
Newbie!!

Brighteyez · Jun 23, 2006

Thanks for the info on the run times.

With regards to the documentation, I don't know where they got that stuff about 3-5 cycles, LIon batteries don't work that way. Their capacity starts to diminish as soon as they have been manufactured.

On the other hand, you shouldn't put too much faith in Chinese documentation. Much of it is either stolen from another product or run through an online electronic translator (they don't work very well) to formulate the English (there are professional translation services, but it would appear that they are not used.)

nightrider said:
The documentation that came with the batteries/chargers says the the batteries will not reach their full rated capacity until 3 to 5 charge cycles.

Brighteyez · Jun 23, 2006

If there is a concern about the battery going dead, there are two options. One is to carry a spare battery, the other would be to have a charger with an available power source (the Tenergy charger comes with a car cord). The battery doesn't take very long to charge (about 1.5 hours for two batteries usually.) If you generally do not use it enough in a day to wear the battery down, you can probably just keep a CR123 handy in case you need it, and then just charge the battery each evening. A LIon battery usually has a nominal life of about 300 full charges (thats about 1.25 work years if you use it each work day, taking 2 weeks vacation, holidays, and no sick days).

If you have a general idea as to the amount of your usage, you can usually devise some sort of regiman to keep the light reasonably powered and ready without too much inconvenience.

Newuser01 said:
But there is a little worry about going dead suddenly, have to keep an eye on charging up regularly or carry a spare CR123.

Walt175 · Jun 23, 2006

I just carry a spare with me.

BTW anybody get an email from Amondotech today? I saw an awfully familiar looking flashlight advertised there....
http://www.amondotech.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1138

Reminds me a little of the elusive black Dorcy...

InfidelCastro · Jun 23, 2006

Walt175 said:
I just carry a spare with me.

BTW anybody get an email from Amondotech today? I saw an awfully familiar looking flashlight advertised there....
http://www.amondotech.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1138

Reminds me a little of the elusive black Dorcy...

Interesting... I would venture to guess it is the same light. Sure looks like it.

Yea, I usually delete the emails from "Jessica" without reading, so I didn't catch that.

It's sure got ugly writing on the side though.

Flashfirstask?later · Jun 24, 2006

Walt175 said:
I just carry a spare with me.

BTW anybody get an email from Amondotech today? I saw an awfully familiar looking flashlight advertised there....
http://www.amondotech.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1138

Reminds me a little of the elusive black Dorcy...

Huh interesting... a black version of the pewter style of the Dorcy super 1 watt. A shame though as it is not the elusive black Dorcy super 1 watt. I agree that the one at amondotech.com would look much better if it had more minimal writing.

Newuser01 · Jun 24, 2006

OK folks!
Have been reading up on all the older posts around and my head is spining out of control !! :banghead:

But I would like to thank FirstDsent on this post #3."here"

This is what he said......
For CR123 primaries, there are two sources where you can buy them for $1 each every day of the year:
http://www.amondotech.com/index.asp...TS&Category=241
Amondotech sells the Titanium brand for $1 each, no questions asked.

http://www.batterystation.com/cpf.htm
Batterystation sells them for $1.45 each on their website, but offers them to CPFers at the address above for $1 each. You have to register on their site, and use your CPF user name. This discount applies indefinitely.

I have purchased hundreds of Titanium brand 123s and have been very happy with them.

If you want to use rechargables, there is a lot to know. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be one comprehensive source for all the information. Fortunately Adult ADD sometimes causes "hyperfocus" so I was able to crank this post out uninterrupted at 1:00AM. I have covered some basics here:

Basically you will find the following compositions for rechargables. With few exceptions, the battery's composition will determine its voltage. There are three compositions most commonly found in flashlight applications:

Almost all rechargable batteries found in retail stores are Ni-Cd (nickel-cadmium), or NiMH (nickel-metal-hydride) batteries. They can be recharged on almost any charger designed for 1.2V batteries.
Ni-Cd, and NiMH batteries are all 1.2 Volts. they typically replace Alkaline batteries. They are very safe to use, but can be damaged by over-discharging them. Flashlights that use Ds, Cs, AAs or AAAs will benefit from these batteries. Light output should be very close to that of alkalines.

Li-Ions are very uncommon in retail stores. Battery specialists like Batteries Plus, and Battery Warehouse stores will have some sizes, however the guys at my local battery store are idiots so I won't even bother with them. Fortunately they are widely available on the web.
Li-Ion (lithium ion) batteries are all 3.7 volts (but many will be 4.2V when fresh off the charger). Some Li-Ions have built-in voltage regulation that keeps the discharge voltage around 3 Volts. They are very uncommon, and you should always assume that a Li-Ion is 3.7V until you are assured otherwise. NOTE: sometimes 3.7V Li-Ions are mistakenly advertised as 3V because they replace 3V standard cells -but they are 3.7V unless they specifically say they are regulated at 3V!

Li-Ions are available in two basic forms, protected, and unprotected. Li-Ions can be dangerous if misused or if they are overcharged/over-discharged, so the distinction is very important

Many Li-Ions are "Protected". Companies build an IC (integrated circuit) into the battery itself, that will protect it from overcharging, and will shut it off at around 3.2V. Some also protect against shorts. Some may also have reverse polarity protection. The description of the battery should include these details, but may not. Most of these protected Li-Ion batteries have somewhat "flat" discharge curves. In other words, they will produce a steady, but slowly diminishing discharge voltage until they reach about 3.2V. Then they simply "turn off". The benefit of these batteries, is that they will stay bright longer in flashlights that don't have their own regulation electronics.

Most protected cells are slightly larger in diameter than standard batteries. Most flashligts are built to fit standard batteriess closely to reduce battery rattle. Most protected cells won't fit in these lights. It is a common modification to get a machine shop to "bore" the battery tube larger to accomodate protected cells.

Most unprotected cells will fit most flashlights. However, unprotected cells have none of the safety features of protected cells and will be damaged, or can explode if over discharged. They may not burst or explode until they are charged again, or even the time or two after that. THE GOLDEN RULE ABOUT UNPROTECTED CELLS: STOP USING A FLASHLIGHT AS SOON AS THE LIGHT DIMS NOTICEABLY! Unprotected cells have a normal discharge curve. Their voltage will drop-off sharply at first, then continue to drop steadily -faster than protected cells, until they are dead. If you use an unprotected Li-Ion until it is dead, or if it accidentally turns on in your pocket/holster/toolbox/luggage throw it away! Do not try to charge a dead unprotected Li-Ion!

In a perfect world, you would buy all your LI-Ions and their chargers from one company who can assure you that they work well together. If you get a few here, and a few there, and a charger over there, than you may run into an imcompatibility problem. This can be dangerous. The charge current can vary from charger to charger, and some cells may be picky about their charging current. At least make sure that you have compatiblity among all your sets, or that you mark which cells charge on which chargers.

Since standard (or "primaries" as they are often referred to on CPF) CR123 batteries are 3 Volts, and Li-Ions are around 3.7 Volts, you can't just substitute rechargables for primaries unless your flashlight is designed for the higher voltage. Using two 3.7V batteries (total 7.4V) in a light designed to use two primaries (6V) will grossly overdrive an LED in any flashlight not designed for the additional 1.4V! And don't forget, they may be 4.2V if just freshly charged -that's an 8.4V spike to the 6V flashlight!!!

Li-Ion batteries are commonly referred to by their size: 16340, 18650, etc.
The two most common sizes of primary 3V batteries are CR123, and CR2. For the purposes of this description, we will consider the CR123. This is the most common size battery for high-performance flashlights. The Li-Ion replacement for the standard CR123 is RCR123. The first R is for "rechargable". The actual metric size of the battery is 16mm diameter by 34mm long. Therefore, the generic part number of the RCR123 is 16340 (there is an extra 0 on the end).
Another common size is 18650, or 18mm X 65mm long. They are slightly shorter, and slightly wider than two RCR123s. Therefore, in lights with a wide enough battery tube, you can substitute one 18650 for two 123s. However, since Li-Ions are all 3.7Volts, your total voltage will be 3.7 instead of 6. Output in incandescent lights will be dimmer. Some LEDs won't light at all. Others will light, but will be dimmer.

One reason to utilize 17650s or 18650s is their capacitance. One 18650 Li-Ion will run much longer than two 16340s in certain lights.

Luxeon I and III LEDs typically need between 3V and 4V supplied to the emitter to run. This is a simplistic explanation of Vf or "forward voltage" Therefore the 18650 is enough to run most luxeon LEDs directly, or with the use of electronics that "boost" their voltage. Flashlights designed to use two or more CR123 batteries usually use electronics to lower the voltage.

There are plenty of threads on this forum describing how to use rechargable batteries in specific lights. search the LED forum, the "Home Made and Modified Lights" forum, and the "Flashlight Electronics-Batteries Included" forum.

Keep at least two sets of rechargable cells so you can charge one set while you use the other. Then you always have fresh cells, and aren't inconvinienced by charge times.

Good Luck,

Bernie

__________________________________________

I'll be back to read what you guys posted and respond accordingly. Now excuse me while I get something for the stupid spinngin head!! :awman:

Triangle-66 · Jun 24, 2006

I have to add a couple things, I use the unprotected cells and mine usually come off of the charger at 4.29 V, I like the idea of the higher V and brighter ( at the begining ) output versuses the protected 3.0 V. I also am a reasonably careful person, understand the possible hazards, have a multimeter to check the voltage, and charge the battery at the 1st sign of dimming which usually ends up to be slightly less than 3.0 V for some reason 2.97 V sticks in my mind as coming up a few times. So, if you are diligent the unprotecetd should be fine, otherwise choose the protected.

Dorcy Super 1W (CR123) and RCR123 /experiences??

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